Rethinking Rumple's Attempted Hatting

[Keb]

So one of the moments that really turned a lot of people against Rumple in 4A, and with good reason, is when he attempted to suck Emma into the hat. Emma, his son’s (likely) true love and his grandson’s mother, one of the few people he’s shown genuine respect to in the whole series, and he tries to suck her into the hat. It was pretty low and awful to see, though even at the time I saw some mitigating factors in his behavior that made it seem to me more IC than it appears on the surface and a tiny bit less evil.

On that note, I’m going to admit right off this whole post is a bit of an apologetic on Rumple’s behalf–and I’m also going to say that yes, he IS and HAS BEEN a truly evil villain, and no, he shouldn’t be lying to/tricking/manipulating his wife OR killing the peasants as a pastime. He does things that are not okay and not good.

But let’s go back to 408 in terms of what we learned in 412.

In 408, Emma, fearful of her growing power and her lack of control over it, begs Rumple to help her remove her powers. Rumple’s got this magic hat that he needs to fill up with magic power via sucking in magical people…and if he sucks up enough power and kills a man he hates anyway, he believes he can finally be free of any kind of fear–he’ll have ultimate power and nobody will be able to control him. For Rumple, it’s a pretty intense motivation. He probably even rationalizes it in his head that he can better protect and provide for his wife that way, too.

And here’s Emma ASKING him to use the hat, desperate to escape her power.

Mitigating factor/rationalization 1: He knows what Ingrid’s planning to do at this point. He knows about her mirror and the spell of shattered sight, and he traded the ribbons to her to learn the final piece he needed to use the spell (that he needed to kill Hook). So he already knows that if he does nothing, Storybrooke is headed for a pretty big disaster. Since he got a good deal out of Ingrid and he’s planning to use the disaster for cover for his own schemes, he’s prepared to let it happen.

Now, suddenly, he realizes that he can get the power he needs in one go (I’m assuming 1 savior = half a dozen fairy nuns here), and he doesn’t even need to let Ingrid destroy the population of Storybrooke to get away with it. After all, Emma’s probably the biggest threat to what he’s got planned, especially the bit about killing Hook. So he hats Emma and does in Hook and gets what he wants; sure, he’ll have to deal with Ingrid afterwards, and the Charmings might be a little upset at him, but everybody else gets to live. Far less collateral damage with this plan.

Yet he still shows some reluctance, and is (in his Rumpley way) honest with Emma when she asks questions. He’s disappointed when she decides against going into the hat, but if he’d 100% wanted her to go, he wouldn’t have given her any choice in the first place.

Now, fast-forward to 4B, and he’s telling Belle how to let the fairies AND a specific demon out of the hat. That means that he likely knew how and almost certainly knew it was possible to release individuals from the hat. If he’d changed his mind after hatting Emma, he could have let her out. THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION. We didn’t know that when he attempted to put her in.

We do know that it’s horrible inside the hat, and one thing we don’t know is what his uncleaving spell would have done to its inhabitants. It’s POSSIBLE, however, that someone could be released from the hat after the spell, perhaps without magic. It’s possible Rumple wasn’t entirely sure himself, though he did once scold Regina for not knowing the after effects of one of her curses (which is an argument that he may have known).

IF it would later have been possible to get Emma out of the hat, without her magic but otherwise intact, it puts a different light on his impulsive change of plans when she asked him to remove her magic. I think the Gold that found Emma admirable was completely present in that episode, and I think maybe he was choosing the lesser of two evils in his mind.

[RumplesGirl]

Now, fast-forward to 4B, and he’s telling Belle how to let the fairies AND a specific demon out of the hat. That means that he likely knew how and almost certainly knew it was possible to release individuals from the hat. If he’d changed his mind after hatting Emma, he could have let her out. THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION. We didn’t know that when he attempted to put her in. We do know that it’s horrible inside the hat, and one thing we don’t know is what his uncleaving spell would have done to its inhabitants. It’s POSSIBLE, however, that someone could be released from the hat after the spell, perhaps without magic. It’s possible Rumple wasn’t entirely sure himself, though he did once scold Regina for not knowing the after effects of one of her curses (which is an argument that he may have known). IF it would later have been possible to get Emma out of the hat, without her magic but otherwise intact, it puts a different light on his impulsive change of plans when she asked him to remove her magic. I think the Gold that found Emma admirable was completely present in that episode, and I think maybe he was choosing the lesser of two evils in his mind.

If a murder murdered someone with the belief that they could MAYBE bring back their victim to life after they achieved whatever their goal is by the murder…does that still make them a murderer? Yes it does.

Take out murderer and put in rapist, torturer, thief, abuser, and any other type of heinous. Changing everything after the fact does not negate the selfish and cruel that was done in the beginning.

As for the whole “Emma was asking to have her powers stripped” that is true. However, Rumple is the one who went along with it for selfish reasons. Not because he cared for Emma but because it would further his agenda. And as for Rumple giving her a choice, I will repeat (literally) what I said in our 408 critical analysis thread

There has been some discussion of choice and agency in regards to Emma and Rumple but if you listen closely Rumple is manipulating Emma’s choice.

This is the basic breakdown once Emma asks “what would you do?”

Rumple: I am a man who does WRONG things so I WOULD NOT go into that room.

Wrong Choice = Not Going Into Room

Rumple: You, Emma Swan, are a hero who always does the RIGHT thing, which is not what I would do.

Right Choice  = Going Into the Room

Rumple: You don’t need to change who you are, the person who does right things. Don’t be like me!

Rumple is giving her the allusion of choice but really he’s telling her that in order to do the heroic good thing, she must go into that room or risk being a villain who makes bad choices.

I get the desire to apologize for Rumple–but trying to rationalize it with “he could have known that Emma could be released!” after the fact does not change what would have been done to her.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[obisgirl]

And here’s Emma ASKING him to use the hat, desperate to escape her power.

I have to strongly disagree here. Emma asked to him to help remove her power; not, please put me in this hat! That is not what she asked. Rumple manipulated the situation and Emma’s emotions to make her go into the hat.

Remember that scene where Rumple gloated to Ingrid, ‘Hey, you know what? I’m going to kill Emma!” Of all the people to warn Emma about Rumple planned for her, Ingrid, was the one to do it.

Mind you, Keb, it did not even phase Rumple when Neal’s name was mentioned.  Because all he cared about, at that point was powering up the hat.  He didn’t care if it was Emma; it just happened to work out perfectly in his favor that he could use Emma’s desperation to get what he wanted.  Remember, Rumple is a master manipulator. He will manipulate the situation when it suited him and Emma desperate to get rid of her powers while he was in the process of charging up the hat, that was too good of an opportunity for him to pass up.

[RumplesGirl]

it did not even phase Rumple when Neal’s name was mentioned

I’ll be over here. In this corner. In a black oblivion of pain.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[obisgirl]

The awesome thing I really appreciate about Robert Carlyle when it comes to his interviews, it’s how brutally honest he often is about Rumple’s motivations for what he does.

“He’s actually addicted to magic, he’s addicted to the power. That has been his life for hundreds of years, even before he met her. And it’s still — even after he had met her, it’s still the thing that drives him, so even though he loves her, and he does no doubt, he loves her more than anything, he just can’t let that go. That’s his Achilles heel, you know, that addiction to power. He has trouble moving on to another life.”

[x]

When Rumple’s actions boil down to in 4A is one thing: Rumple is addicted to magic. He wanted to separate himself from the dagger and oh, look, there’s this added bonus that he gets to keep his magic. He was power hungry. Everything he did in 4A for himself.

4B is still a wait a see but underneath wanting Belle back, he still wants his power too. I think his happy ending is having both Belle and his magic. I would be shocked if it’s an “either or scenario.” He wants both.

In which, he has learned nothing from the winter finale.

Rumple is not the hero of 4B. He’s the villain. He’s the ring leader of the Queens of Darkness. He’s working against the heroes to get what he wants. Which is exactly what he did in 4A with the Shattered Sight spell. He had zero interest in saving the town, only about saving himself, Henry and Belle and then, doing some magic memory erase to make both Belle and Henry believe that he tried to save everyone but failed.

I get it. I used to be a Rumple stan to but there’s very few things I find redeemable about him nowadays, primarily because everything he does, he’s doing for himself.  It’s not for the people he cares about.

[RumplesGirl]

4B is still a wait a see but underneath wanting Belle back

Honestly? I don’t even think he wants her back right now. There was a look on his face at the end of 414 when he exited the shop in which he looked defeated by Belle/Will and knew that it was over. We’ll see I guess but I’m not 100% sure that he came back to SB to get her back. I think he just expected that would happen as a result of rewriting the story. But his sole objective wasn’t Belle.

Here is my honest opinion: they removed Rumple’s humanity. Rumple has always been selfish, difficult, hard, manipulative, and diabolical. But underneath all that, he was a man who wanted to be loved and a father looking for his lost child. It’s what made him fascinating to watch. They took away his entire humanity in 4A. He stopped being a complicated figure and became just “black hat.” Had they kept Rumple’s humanity in tact, shown him actually struggling with the idea of hatting Emma or leaving everyone in SB to die or…gee….I don’t know mentioning his dead son that died in front of his very eyes after being apart for 300 years and going to extraordinary lengths to get him back…then he’d still be Rumple and I could *understand* him. But none of this happened. It was just ALL ZE POWERRRRRRR. That’s it. They took their most complicated, grayest, more morally and ethically challenged character and reduced him to a cliche bad guy. All he needs is a white cat on his lap at this point.

I get it. I used to be a Rumple stan

Ok @obisgirl. You’ve known me for about…what…three years now? We’ve been here together for a LONG time. Would you–or anyone who has been around this place for awhile–EVER think that I’d be anti-Rumbelle or anti-Rumple? Because I am. I never want Rumbelle back together (though gods know I don’t want Will/Ana broken up) and if Rumple dies, for real, at the end of this season, I won’t shed a tear (whereas I cried for like an entire day at the end of 311). I don’t see him ever coming back from this arc in a believable way. The writers could whitewash and hand wave with book changes or fate changes or some sort of sacrifice, but what would honestly be enough to make us–and the characters–move past what Rumple has done this year?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[obisgirl]

 

I never want Rumbelle back together (though gods know I don’t want Will/Ana broken up) and if Rumple dies, for real, at the end of this season, I won’t shed a tear (whereas I cried for like an entire day at the end of 311). I don’t see him ever coming back from this arc in a believable way.

I feel the same way too.

The writers could whitewash and hand wave with book changes or fate changes or some sort of sacrifice, but what would honestly be enough to make us–and the characters–move past what Rumple has done this year?

I’m don’t think Rumple can be redeemed at al at this point. I don’t think one sacrificial act would save him either. He’s just done so much damage and there’s plenty more coming.

 

[WickedRegal]

RumplesGirl wrote:

I never want Rumbelle back together (though gods know I don’t want Will/Ana broken up) and if Rumple dies, for real, at the end of this season, I won’t shed a tear (whereas I cried for like an entire day at the end of 311). I don’t see him ever coming back from this arc in a believable way.

I feel the same way too.

RumplesGirl wrote:

The writers could whitewash and hand wave with book changes or fate changes or some sort of sacrifice, but what would honestly be enough to make us–and the characters–move past what Rumple has done this year?

I’m don’t think Rumple can be redeemed at al at this point. I don’t think one sacrificial act would save him either. He’s just done so much damage and there’s plenty more coming.

Quote

My whole thing is this…either Rumple’s going to die a hero again like he did in 3×11, which I highly doubt because it’s already been done. Or Rumple’s going to go out in the blaze of villain’s glory, which I most suspect.

They’ve basically been painting Rumple as the Baddest of the bad this entire season, and it’s just going to be that situation….I can honestly imagine Adam and Eddy writing for Rumple to literally be dragged down into Hell, a big fiery portal, like the Original Rumpelstilskin ended.

Or Chernabog’s going to come back and devour Rumplestilskin, the one with the darkest heart, thus the end of the Dark One curse.

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[obisgirl]

I found two interviews from earlier this season. This first one is from Bobby:

“No, I’m really hoping he doesn’t [do the right thing],” he said. “As soon as he starts to do the right thing, the character’s finished. That’s the reason he is who he is and that’s the reason I think people like him because he is his own person.”

[x]

Prior to 4A, Rumple’s been morally gray. Now though? That morally gray area is gone.

This second one is also from Bobby and it’s about Smash the Mirror.

“I don’t think he has any intentions of helping Emma in her life. Gold/Rumple, he’s very, he’s selfish, you know. He’s a selfish kind of guy and he’s addicted to the power, he’s addicted to the magic, he’s addicted to his own world. He doesn’t have a lot of time for anyone else. I think that’s what makes the character so interesting. You can hope that he’s gonna be nice, but maybe not.”

[x]

Rumple had no real intention of helping Emma in Smash the Mirror. He was however selfish enough to take advantage of Emma’s meltdown and use it for his own gain.

[RumplesGirl]

Or Rumple’s going to go out in the blaze of villain’s glory, which I most suspect.

Yup. I think he’s going to go out as a pure villain. And it breaks my heart. Not the losing of Rumple but that they so trashed a character that even after he went out a hero once, he is getting the worst final send off ever.

However people may feel about the show in general–the plot, the writing, other ships, other characters–the fact that so many people are the stage where they don’t care if one of the core characters, one of the biggest and most important characters on the entire show since the beginning, lives or dies is a problem. You can hate a character or you can love a character, but it’s indifference toward a character that is the death knell.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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