Rumpel/Regina’s Redemption through Hook & Cora’s evilness

[obisgirl]

Rumpelstiltskin and Regina’s redemption (well, more Regina than Rumpel). From season one, we know Regina did a lot of bad things to get her revenge against Snow White and she’s trying to make to be a better person for Henry. Rumpel, well, I never really felt like he was a real villain (more like a morally gray character trying to do the right thing through unconventional methods).

But since the start of this season, Cora and Hook are the new baddies. Cora is an excellent villainess — you have no reason to like her. Hook, on the other hand, despite being a villain, his charm (and the accent and everything else that he is) makes him likable.

I bring this up because I came across an interesting tumblr post (edited for content).

They want Regina and Gold redeemed in some sort of way (Rumpelstiltskin, yes, Regina, no, at least for the moment because we know that Rum eventually will return to doing whatever must be done for his son). But I feel like they are making Hook SUPER bad so that Rum’s and Regina’s transgressions don’t seem so bad.

What I like about this show versus what we see in Disney movies, the villains have layers. The writers give us a reason why these characters chose the path that they did. Even as they’re trying to redeem themselves, their evil transgressions, whatever they are, they still happened.

But with the introduction of Hook and Cora into the mix, it adds a new layer (an awesome foil). Cora is definitely evil to the core but as we’ve seen with Regina, there is good in her and she can change. But I also think, no one in Storybrooke is going to forgive Regina anytime soon for what she did to them. It would be a completely unrealistic show if they ended the season with a group hug and forgiving the bad guys for being bad. That would just be horrible writing.

[evilqueen]

@obisgirl wrote:

It would be a completely unrealistic show if they ended the season with a group hug and forgiving the bad guys for being bad. That would just be horrible writing.

hahaha, sorry, I just imagined everyone suddenly finding themselves in the middle of the SB square and shouting “GROUP HUUUUGGGGGGGGG”, “YEEEAAHHHH!!!”

I also see the writers are bringing Cora and Hook as the REALLY REALLY BAD villains as opposed to *just* BAD villains who Regina and Rumple supposedly are. However, it doesn’t quite work for me – I don’t see them as worse than Regina and Rumple at all.
I admit that Regina and Cora might be equals (even though the show constantly throws at us that Cora is 10 times worse) but I think this is just a matter of perception – a lot of the characters don’t know exactly what either Regina or Cora did, just that they are bad. Similarly, none of us had a chance to see the “good” side of those new villains, like we did with Regina and Rumple. Seemingly, Cora is truly heartless and will stop at nothing, but so did the Evil Queen. I just think there could be more to Cora that meets the eye, she might have really good reasons to be mad at her daughter and I sort of think she might have soft moments as well – just like any of the characters, they are layered.
Same with Hook – he is manipulating all the time, plotting just like Rumplestiltskin and we haven’t really seen much good from him either. He’s a pirate and therefore a bad person, you could probably go even as far as calling him a “monster” in that pirates rob and kill people for selfish reasons and without mercy. Hell, we don’t even know if Milah left her family because she wanted the adventure or maybe Kilian has really kidnapped/blackmailed her and the love has only developed later (just like with Rumple and Belle). And the viewers never really know whether what he’s saying is a truth or a lie.
So in a way, there are so so many parallels between Regina/Rumple and Cora/Hook team that makes me think they are not really that much worse. It’s just we now know Regina and Rumple and we yet have to discover the Cora and Hook stories.
It would be a shame though if they were similar to those of Regina and Rumple – it would just be plain boring.

[hellraiser-89]

Since the writers have experience from Lost, I’d say it’s very possible Regina and Rumple will reflect Cora and Hook’s stories.
I agree with you, EQ, that we know Regina and Rumple now but we don’t know Cora and Hook. For most part of season one we just knew Regina was evil, and it wasn’t until Stable Boy that we found out why. If they develop Cora further I’m sure we will see a similar episode along the line where we find out why she’s evil.

obisgirl, I always had a feeling Rumple would be the big bad, since he’s been the one manipulating everyone and pulling all the strings and since he’s probably connected to Cora it’s possible he was the one who made her evil, similar to how he manipulated Regina.
I see him as willing to do whatever it takes to get what he wants.

[Grimmsister]

What is VERY interesting here is actually how far out can the writers take a characters evilness, while the viewers still will be able too forgive them and want redemption for them??
They’ve already taken Regina and Rumple out pretty far. First one killed her own father, second one killed his former wife… But we can (I assume) all agree, that we can see redemtion and forgivness in their future.

Is it as soon as we see just a glimmer of ‘human’ compassion or vulnerability in the character.. is that when we see the possibility of forgiveness, maybe because we then can recognise our selves in them and see that they are humans and not animals ????

[frumpybutsupersmart]

@medchen wrote:

What is VERY interesting here is actually how far out can the writers take a characters evilness, while the viewers still will be able too forgive them and want redemption for them??
They’ve already taken Regina and Rumple out pretty far. First one killed her own father, second one killed his former wife… But we can (I assume) all agree, that we can see redemtion and forgivness in their future.

Is it as soon as we see just a glimmer of ‘human’ compassion or vulnerability in the character.. is that when we see the possibility of forgiveness, maybe because we then can recognise our selves in them and see that they are humans and not animals ????

I think it’s because it gives us hope that, no matter how low we could possibly sink, there’s always the possibility of redemption.

[evilqueen]

I agree with Hellraiser – Rumple’s the one who created all of his “monsters” – Regina, Cora, Hook – wherever he went, he created hate and pain – and I think it was only in case of Archie that turned out to be sort of ok – even though Gepetto’s parents were turned into puppets, Archie was able to leave his own parents and go try redeem himself by helping out Gepetto.
In the end Rumple is the Dark One and therefore, as we seen, not very well understood by anyone.
I find it strange that people of SB have never stood up to Mr Gold but as soon as the curse was broken, they run to Regina’s house to punish HER. I mean, I get it, she cast the curse and everything but all of those characters also have a “complicated story” with Rumplestiltskin and, as far as we know, he wasn’t very forgiving as Mr Gold in SB either but all they can come up with is “charging extra for the pickles”… Noone has ever suggested of getting rid of him along with Regina.
This to me is sort of a sign that they fear Rumple far more than the Evil Queen, she was just an easy target but nobody wants to touch the Dark One.
Then there is the fact that nobody has frowned when Regina mentioned Cora might be coming and no one else is actually helping them in preventing this. They left it in Regina and Rumple’s hands, therefore trusting enough in their skills which to me is another sign that Cora cannot be as powerful and evil as we think.

[evilqueen]

just rewatched the ‘desperate souls’ episode – the one where Emma wins the sheriff election. In the last scene Mr Gold tells her exactly what I’ve just written above – people of SB are afraid of Regina but they are afraid of Mr Gold even more. So I still rank Rumple on the very top of my villain list, even with Cora and Hook in sight 😛

[cherish]

I see it differently. I think the reason why people are being relatively civil towards Mr. Gold as opposed to Regina is because Regina went out of her way to hurt people. She specifically targeted the Charming family and all of their allies. So yes, they’re going to see her as more of a threat. That’s why in “Broken,” the town rioted at Regina’s house and not Mr. Gold’s. And even though the Charmings knew that Rumpel created the curse, they didn’t even bother to arrest him or put him in jail. But they did with Regina. With Mr. Gold, they simply went to his shop and asked him some questions. And on top of that, during the scene in the jail cell where Snow and Charming are asking Regina about the curse, they actually say “we should go get Mr. Gold.” They actually turned to him for help. The Charming family knows about Rumpel’s role in the curse, and yet, they still choose to trust him above Regina. Even Henry has been warming up to Mr. Gold lately.

People aren’t reacting to Mr. Gold the same way because he hasn’t put himself out there as much as Regina has. Regina announced at Snow and Charming’s wedding in the pilot episode that she would destroy everyone’s happiness. So, EVERYONE knows about Regina’s evil deeds.

[snowfalls]

@Cherish wrote:

I see it differently. I think the reason why people are being relatively civil towards Mr. Gold as opposed to Regina is because Regina went out of her way to hurt people. She specifically targeted the Charming family and all of their allies. So yes, they’re going to see her as more of a threat. That’s why in “Broken,” the town rioted at Regina’s house and not Mr. Gold’s. And even though the Charmings knew that Rumpel created the curse, they didn’t even bother to arrest him or put him in jail. But they did with Regina. With Mr. Gold, they simply went to his shop and asked him some questions. And on top of that, during the scene in the jail cell where Snow and Charming are asking Regina about the curse, they actually say “we should go get Mr. Gold.” They actually turned to him for help. The Charming family knows about Rumpel’s role in the curse, and yet, they still choose to trust him above Regina. Even Henry has been warming up to Mr. Gold lately.

People aren’t reacting to Mr. Gold the same way because he hasn’t put himself out there as much as Regina has. Regina announced at Snow and Charming’s wedding in the pilot episode that she would destroy everyone’s happiness. So, EVERYONE knows about Regina’s evil deeds.

That’s how I saw it as well. The Charmings haven’t made any moves to challenge Rumpel/Gold. It’s easier to blame the person who’s directly responsible for ruining your life, and that person right now is Regina. At least in the Charming’s eyes. And another example of the Charmings trusting Gold above Regina is the fact that they were so willing to trust Mr. Gold’s message about the squid ink. As soon as they received the message, they immediately trusted it.

[the fairest]

I agree. It’s easier for the Charming family and their allies to hate Regina because they know for a fact that she’s responsible for a lot of their misfortunes. Regina killed Snow’s father, tried to kill Snow on numerous occassions, tried to kill Charming, her daughter Emma and is currently raising her grandson. She’s targetted every single member of Snow’s family. So of course, they’re going to hate her more than Rumpel. To them, Rumpel is just some evil guy that they don’t trust. But Regina is the one who they know for a fact has tried to kill them numerous times.

[Author]

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