Rumple and Milah

[pmc]

Hey all,

I know this season is rather old, I was curious any ideas as to what Milah originally saw in Rumple?

We were given no story as to how they met.

Thanks!

Chris

[RumplesGirl]

Well I think this was sort of answered in “Manhattan.”

It wasn’t that Rumple was a really different person when they got married and started planning a life. He was always kind and sweet–we see this even after the Rumple/Milah falling out that there’s a tenderness to him; and we see it in bursts with characters like Bae and Belle after Rumple became the Dark One–but there was also a hopefulness to Rumple. He was enthusiastic about going off to war, proving himself a hero, proving he was a good man and Milah certainly seemed to support that.

It was less about seeing something initially in Rumple that changed (like a latent character flaw) and more about Milah’s own perspective on Rumple’s actions on the battlefield (or lack thereof).

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[AKA]

It was less about seeing something initially in Rumple that changed (like a latent character flaw) and more about Milah’s own perspective on Rumple’s actions on the battlefield (or lack thereof).

I think Milah probably saw Rumple as a steadfast and fairly prosperous (for a peasant) provider.

It wasn’t that Rumple was a really different person when they got married and started planning a life. He was always kind and sweet–we see this even after the Rumple/Milah falling out that there’s a tenderness to him; and we see it in bursts with characters like Bae and Belle after Rumple became the Dark One–but there was also a hopefulness to Rumple.

While I agree I don’t think these were qualities that Milah was ever interested in with Rumple.  She did not care about his character.  Just with the few scenes we have seen between Milah and Rumple she seemed to hate his sweetness, kindness, and tenderness.  She was not looking for him to be a good father (as we saw in 5×14) or a “good ” person as we have seen in most of the flashbacks and especially in 5×14.  What she valued, IMO is that he could provide her with a decent life. When he came back from the war as a “coward” he could no longer provide that and therefore she scorned him completely and to a certain effect their child also.

I will be the first one to say that Milah is probably one character that I have never felt any sympathy for.  She was selfish, self centered, and both a horrible wife and mother. I don’t believe she ever loved Rumple for who he is. She may have loved him for what he could provide her but when he could no longer provide her with that she scorned him, abused him, and neglected their child.  She eventually took off with someone who she felt could provide her with a better life and protection.  All in all I think her and Hook deserved each other, and Rumple and Bae were better off without her.

[TheWatcher]

I’m iffy about Miah.
What completely makes her unsympathetic for me is that she left her child. I can understand wanting a better life for herself, or a different mate or what have you but to leave your own son for that is unforgivable. I like the scene with Rump/Hook/Milah on the ship right before he chops off Hook’s hand. I think he could have let her go if it was just him she left and not batted an eye. But her son? Her flesh and blood! Her living spawn! Her little hatchling!
No, sorry. Die please, k thanks.
As for whether or not she loved Rump? Idk. Would love to see more flashbacks of them honestly. I think I would believe it was all arranged. Weren’t a lot of opportunities for non-magical/non-royal women in the EF. Guess sometimes you got to stick with the spinster who can put bread on the table at night and learn to love him. I don’t think Milah had true love for rump, or real strong genuine feelings for him, but I agree that whatever she did feel for him definitely vanished when he could no longer provide a basic standard of living for her anymore. But still…..can we just imagine what kind of dark place she was in for her to justify leaving her child? If she had fallen in love with Hook, knew he had some kind of stability (I mean, I know hes a pirate but still) then surely she’d have snagged him along with her??!?!?
I’d love to see flashbakcs of:
– Rumpel and Milah meeting.
– More time shared between Milah and Hook so we can understand why they feel for eachother so deeply as opposed to her being another women to sleep with.
– Hook and Milah actually trying to seek Bae but failing.

"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC

[AKA]

Hook and Milah actually trying to seek Bae but failing.

I doubt she ever looked for him. I mean let’s look at the Crocodile Episode which took place maybe a year or two after Rumple became the dark one at most a few years.  At this time Bae would have been maybe 16-17 years old.  Does Milah ask how Bae is doing, does she say hey Rumple what happened to you and where is our son?  No! She was first worried about Hook, then makes a deal with Rumple for the bean.  She does not even ask him what the bean is for, she simply says I don’t know why the dark one wants the bean but I know he does.  Maybe just maybe if she had asked about her son I could have sympathy for her but she doesn’t, why becasue she could have cared less about Bae.  All she cared about is Hook (which wow there is a similarity to Emma in Season 6)

As for whether or not she loved Rump? Idk.

Yeah, nope she had no REAL feelings for Rumple.  Rumple at heart is sweet, kind, and tender which I think Milah actually despises.  I think she went for Hook becasue he was the exact opposite of who Rumple was.  You can’t really love someone if you don’t love who they are at heart.  She might have loved what he provided for her at the time, but when that ended so did her feelings.

As for your thought process of similarities between Emma and Milah I think they are both strong, independent, fierce woman at best and can be incredibly selfish and self centered at worse.  I think  it is interesting that they both became so focused on Hook that they were willing to give up the ones they loved for him Milah (Bae) Emma (chose saving Hook from possible danger rather than waking her parents up from a permanent coma).  They both value bravery in the “I will kick your butt” sense.  I say this because I think Belle is one of the bravest characters on the show just in a much quieter way.  I think Emma  is a way more sympathetic character and is obviously better for Hook morally.  Hook with Emma is a better person morally, with Milah he was a vicious, bully, murdering pirate. So I can see why Hook was attracted to both of them.

My question is what Rumple saw in Milah and for the matter Cora also as I can see quite a few similarities between those two women, and why did he end up with their complete opposites in everything but looks with Belle.

[Gaultheria]

She may have loved him for what he could provide her but when he could no longer provide her with that she scorned him, abused him, and neglected their child.

Looking at the relationship from the other direction, young man Rumpel had learned to expect horrible treatment from the people who claimed to love him. He would’ve interpreted it as affection if Milah had paid any sort of attention to him, good or bad.

Killian thought Milah was pretty nifty, too, but he wasn’t exactly a well-balanced individual at that point in his life. Maybe Milah treated everyone poorly, and the only men willing to give her a chance were those with no self-esteem.

Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher

[sciencevsmagic]

Ok, I’m going to be the Milah apologist in this thread.

I know this season is rather old, I was curious any ideas as to what Milah originally saw in Rumple? We were given no story as to how they met.

I would have liked this story. But, perhaps there was no big story involved. Given the socio-political environment of the EF, it’s possible that people just married the first suitable person they met when they became of marriageable age. Love didn’t have to be involved, just basic compatibility, which probably meant being able to provide and being capable of having children. We kind of saw this in action when Cora married Regina off to Leopold. I suspect it was more the norm than the exception. So, there’s nothing wrong with Milah not loving Rumple in a big, grandiose way. In many cultures, love develops as the marriage progresses, and that was probably the expectation Rumple and Milah had.

While I agree I don’t think these were qualities that Milah was ever interested in with Rumple.  She did not care about his character.  Just with the few scenes we have seen between Milah and Rumple she seemed to hate his sweetness, kindness, and tenderness.  She was not looking for him to be a good father (as we saw in 5×14) or a “good ” person as we have seen in most of the flashbacks and especially in 5×14.  What she valued, IMO is that he could provide her with a decent life. When he came back from the war as a “coward” he could no longer provide that and therefore she scorned him completely and to a certain effect their child also.

I disagree with a lot of this. Milah seemed to appreciate Rumple just fine before he went off to war. When he returned, they become social pariahs. In their society, with no government assistance or the like, social support would have been everything. It probably meant that Milah had to do all of the backbreaking work herself – even more so, since Rumple was compromised. Also, we saw Milah being harassed in ‘Devil’s Due’. We don’t know if this was a regular occurrence, but it may well have been. I  imagine that the wife of the crippled, cowardly, town traitor was fair game for the louts. And few of the ‘good folk’ would have lifted a finger to help her. So yes, under these circumstances, I  imagine Milah probably didn’t appreciate  Rumple’s qualities very much. But who would? I mean, it was Rumple’s actions that triggered this hostility towards them.

I will be the first one to say that Milah is probably one character that I have never felt any sympathy for.  She was selfish, self centered, and both a horrible wife and mother. I don’t believe she ever loved Rumple for who he is. She may have loved him for what he could provide her but when he could no longer provide her with that she scorned him, abused him, and neglected their child.  She eventually took off with someone who she felt could provide her with a better life and protection.  All in all I think her and Hook deserved each other, and Rumple and Bae were better off without her.

I also think this is unfair. There’s nothing wrong with expecting your husband to provide for and protect you – that was just the culture of the EF. Why is Milah so horrible for accepting the socially prevalent beliefs of her day? I think it also trivialises her situation to say that she simply “ran off with Hook because he could provide her with a better life”. Perhaps, Hook was the only person in her life who actually listened to her and respected her? I know this sounds trivial, but for someone who never gets respect, it means everything. Respect is a fundamental human need. It’s why people join gangs and cults. Rumple may have been sweet and kind, but he didn’t listen to her when she said she wanted to move. He simply didn’t understand. I suspect this was a recurring marital problem, and if so, both sides are responsible, not just Milah. What’s the point of having a sweet, kind husband if he doesn’t understand how much you are suffering?

What completely makes her unsympathetic for me is that she left her child. I can understand wanting a better life for herself, or a different mate or what have you but to leave your own son for that is unforgivable.

Why? Emma left her son. Snowing left their daughter. Rumple left his son. Why does nobody give Milah the benefit of the doubt and assume that maybe she was suffering so much, that she HAD to leave for her own sanity? As you say, she had to have been in a very dark place. Also, are you saying that this action is worse than mass murders? Because other characters have been forgiven for those.

Does Milah ask how Bae is doing, does she say hey Rumple what happened to you and where is our son?  No! She was first worried about Hook, then makes a deal with Rumple for the bean.  She does not even ask him what the bean is for, she simply says I don’t know why the dark one wants the bean but I know he does.  Maybe just maybe if she had asked about her son I could have sympathy for her but she doesn’t, why because she could have cared less about Bae.

I get that this looks bad. But let’s face it, the situation was very unusual and highly tense. People were about to die. Maybe she felt that asking about Bae was secondary to the fact that blood was about to be shed. Also, it’s just one instance. If we got repeated instances of Milah ignoring Bae, then yes, I’d say there was enough evidence that she didn’t care. But I personally think that it’s too far a leap to make based on this one situation, where there were mitigating circumstances. In ‘Devil’s Due’, Milah expresses regret about Bae and does ask about him.

I find it interesting that Milah, a poor, powerless woman whose mistakes are very human, gets almost universal hate from the OUAT fandom – the same fandom who can find plenty of sympathy in their hearts for mass murdering villains! Yes, she made mistakes which hurt her family. Yes, she needs to be held accountable for that.  But did she deserve to be murdered in cold blood and then thrown into the River of Souls? I don’t think so!

[RumplesGirl]

I disagree with a lot of this. Milah seemed to appreciate Rumple just fine before he went off to war.

Right I agree. There wasn’t any animosity that we can see in their earliest flashback, which is right before Rumple goes off to war.

Rumpelstiltskin: Milah.

Milah: I’m nearly finished.

Rumpelstiltskin: Oh, you learn quickly.

Milah: I have a good teacher.

(They kiss.)

Milah: What is it? What brings you home so early?

Rumpelstiltskin: Milah… My weaving days are behind us. I’ve been called to the front.

(He unrolls the piece of paper and holds it in front of Milah. It reads ‘Rumplestiltskin (sic) You have been drafted into the King’s army’.)

Milah: The Ogres War. Rumpelstiltskin: I report for training in the morning.

Milah: No. Rumpel, I’ve heard stories. The front – it’s a brutal place.

Rumpelstiltskin: Oh, Milah… I-I know, I know. I… I can’t say that I… I won’t be frightened. But… But this is the chance I’ve been waiting for…all my life. You know, I’ve lived under the shadow of my father’s actions for too long now.

Milah: Just because your father was a coward, it doesn’t mean you are.

Rumpelstiltskin: Oh, I know that. As do you. But to the world? Fighting in this war finally gives me the chance to prove that to everyone else.

Milah: Go. Be brave. Fight honourably.

Rumpelstiltskin: Oh, God, I love you.

Milah: I love you, too. When you return, we can start living the life we’ve always dreamed of.

Rumpelstiltskin: Yeah…

Milah: We can have a family.

Rumpelstiltskin: A family.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[sciencevsmagic]

Milah’s biggest problem is that the show never presents her point of view. We’ve always seen things from Rumple’s perspective, which by definition, is biased. Add to that the fact that Rumple is popular, and you get a huge bias against Milah in the fandom.

Imagine seeing Milah’s point of view for a while. Her mother was verbally abusive.  Her father left the family when she was young. She went to bed exhausted every night from backbreaking labour, which Rumple couldn’t help with, and neighbours wouldn’t help with. She was harassed and humiliated whenever she went into the village. Her friends abandoned her. She spiraled into depression. Her attempts to improve things, like moving away, were met by resistance from Rumple.

Any of these things could be true, and in all probability, most of them are. But if we actually saw all of this, would people’s reaction still be:

No, sorry. Die please, k thanks.

[RumplesGirl]

We had a much longer discussion on Milah a few years back if anyone is interested in reading through some of the various arguments.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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