Rumple’s plan

[Keb]

So this episode opens an interesting question for what exactly Rumple really wanted out of the exercise. Yes, he has his little administrative detail–George being made bankrupt. (Again?)

And we know that he likes to offer people choices, and find out what they’ll do–but he also has a really good sense of what they’ll do most of the time, either from experience or his Seer abilities. So was this a test for Regina, or a way of keeping her on the path of darkness so she would cast his curse?

He didn’t come when she called, but given her importance to him, he was most certainly watching everything. And he certainly drives home the lesson that she’s too evil to be loved pretty hard. Of course, at that point, it’s exactly what he believes about himself. And it all comes in between her ordering the death of an entire village and finding out just what that looks like up close when you’re not bent on vengeance.

Sometimes Rumple’s a bigger enigma than August ever was.

[RumplesGirl]

I loved the George detail in tonight’s episode. That was a great way to tie a few loose ends together.
I also have no doubt that Rumple was watching Regina very closely while she was out and about with Snow. He wouldn’t let anything happen to her, but he needed her to accept her role as the Evil Queen.
Rumple’s an enigma wrapped in a $3,000 suit wrapped in surprisingly soft fluffy hair.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Rumple’s an enigma wrapped in a $3,000 suit wrapped in surprisingly soft fluffy hair.

*dies laughing* YES. THIS.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[rumbelledearie]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I loved the George detail in tonight’s episode. That was a great way to tie a few loose ends together.
I also have no doubt that Rumple was watching Regina very closely while she was out and about with Snow. He wouldn’t let anything happen to her, but he needed her to accept her role as the Evil Queen.
Rumple’s an enigma wrapped in a $3,000 suit wrapped in surprisingly soft fluffy hair.

Agreed, I think his whole plan was to push her over the edge to become the Evil Queen, just like in The Doctor when Rumple used Whale and Jefferson to push Regina over the edge and use dark magic. In this episode Rumple needed her to give up on wanting to be liked and just go full on evil without caring, so that she would eventually cast the curse.

[Keb]

Yeah, but she’s already full-on evil. She killed those people before she summoned Rumple. And it was a risky gambit for Rumple, since Snow rescued her and showed her that she did once have some good in her.

He’s always told people that they have a choice. He told her it was up to her whether or not she’d become like her mother. I’m not denying that he’s manipulated the heck out of Regina, but it doesn’t seem to take much for her to slaughter a whole village. And she still believes after everything that she’s the good guy–or at least she could be if everyone else would just die already.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[rumbelledearie]

@Keb wrote:

Yeah, but she’s already full-on evil. She killed those people before she summoned Rumple. And it was a risky gambit for Rumple, since Snow rescued her and showed her that she did once have some good in her.

He’s always told people that they have a choice. He told her it was up to her whether or not she’d become like her mother. I’m not denying that he’s manipulated the heck out of Regina, but it doesn’t seem to take much for her to slaughter a whole village. And she still believes after everything that she’s the good guy–or at least she could be if everyone else would just die already.

Oh she was totally evil by then, and of course she’ll always deny it – or she’ll say that she’s evil but only because Snow made her that way. 🙄
I think what Rumple knew was that she still WANTED to be good, which was shown in her talk with Snow while she was in disguise. He needed Regina to give up on that and completely commit to evil (in her mind – obviously we know she already was. Girl still had denial though). Rumple probably knew that the Charmings would wind up giving her chances to redeem herself and he needed her to have given up on that.
Kind of like present time in SB – Regina was hoping to be redeemed but then gave up on that and now is completely back to wicked. Same with Rumple now.
I agree though, Regina is evil on her own. Rumple has pushed her in certain directions sometimes but she went willingly. She’s evil without Rumple’s manipulation lol. Rumple didn’t tell her to spend her life trying to kill Snow, and Regina could’ve chosen not to use the curse.

[laurieanne]

@Keb wrote:

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Rumple’s an enigma wrapped in a $3,000 suit wrapped in surprisingly soft fluffy hair.

*dies laughing* YES. THIS.

This needs to be a meme somewhere. LOL I too am dying.

[thelonebamf]

I think there’s a little room for debate on what “full-on evil” means. That is to say, I think that of course, Regina’s actions were evil and fueled by revenge when she killed the villagers. Her behavior as monarch are cruel and unjust and completely centered on killing Snow, despite the fact that there is no reason to believe that her people will love her after. However, just because she is acting in an evil way during the events of the episode does not mean at that time that she is irredeemable. When Snow begins talking about the idea of reconciliation, Regina legitimately responds with interest. She entertains the idea that they could be a part of a family again (and she doesn’t flinch at the idea of being the one who needs forgiveness) and you can tell she is hoping to reveal herself to Snow so they can have a fresh start.

It’s strange, at this point she seems to have practically forgotten about the dozens of villagers she put to death. Why? Because that was a “crime of passion” if you will. It was her response to being disappointed and frustrated and angry that she wasn’t receiving the help that she wanted. It is of course evil, but evil in a different sense than the later Regina we see.

Rumplestiltskin’s plan wasn’t to make Regina more evil than she already was (that was covered during the events with Dr. Frankenstein) but to temper her, create someone who could start to see the “big picture” as it were. Regina’s actions until this point were very quick, reactionary, and short-sighted. “I’ll kill Snow, then the peasants will love me and… it will be great. Yeah. Then I’ll be happy.” The Regina after the events of this episode is not a fiery, passionate being who acts out of impulse, she is calm, cold, and calculating. This is exactly the kind of person who would be willing to cast a curse with such horrific implications- because they’re looking at how they’ll benefit in the long run.

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[Reginastwin3]

I agree, I think Regina was so close to being redeemed when she was with Snow, but Rumble wanted her beyond a certian point. Regina was horrified when she saw the villegers. Even tho she ordered it. It is almost like she is trapped between to souls. I wonder if there ever can be a movie of a histrocal figure that makes us hope for their redemption even after all the evil and we can debate about so hotly.

I am a nerd at heart.

[kfchimera]

Snow says to disguised Regina that in her mind the Queen was in too much pain and looking for someone to blame. The she sees the bodies and changes her mind. Yet we know she changes her mind back again at the scene in the Cricket Game flashback, where Regina was about to be executed.

So now I wonder this–what made her change her mind back? What good did she see in Regina after the village slaughter?

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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