Shadow Neverland

[RumplesGirl]

@HappyEndings wrote:

Bae isn’t really a fighter nor a leader so I still don’t think he is PP. I was right that PP was evil and it looks like Hook is the good guy so far but will see. That statue looks more like the Pied Piper what is he holding in his hand? Maybe they are alluring to the fact that PP will be the next story, the time on the clock was the same time Emma broke the curse, with Bae it was him starting to go to NL wonder why they made the time the same? ❓

Well I kinda disagree with you about Bae not being a leader or a fighter, I actually think he is quite brave. He did leave his home after all and then we saw him protect Michael Darling from the shadow and it was his idea to fight the shadow when it came back after it brought Wendy home. He was determined to protect the Darling family.

However, Bae in ONCE and PP in ONCE (the shadow and what we’ve seen so far) don’t seem to match, I will agree.
Bae was brave and selfless
The Shadow is about 800 different types of creepy.
But I really like what PriceofMagic suggested, that the shadow is the “darkness” in children. It’s selfish (like many young children who haven’t learned to think of others). And I think they are setting up a dichotomy between the selfish Shadow Pan and the selfless Bae (who will be a reverse Peter Pan)

[Slurpeez]

@HappyEndings wrote:

Bae isn’t really a fighter nor a leader so I still don’t think he is PP.

Ah, but we now know young Baelfire landed on Captain Hook’s ship, so he probably first became a pirate, and learnt both leadership and fighting skills. We saw in The Miller’s Daughter that Neal certainly knows how to use a sword and knows how to sail a ship; I bet he learned those skills from Captain Hook. So, Baelfire might have eventually left Hook’s crew, after learning fighting skills, to take on the Shadow and free the Lost Boys. Also, in Second Star to the Right, Baelfire was very good about organizing the Darling children to protect their nursery and ordered them into the hiding hole, and he protected them by giving himself to the Shadow; those qualities show excellent leadership potential IMO.

I was right that PP was evil and it looks like Hook is the good guy so far but will see.

But we haven’t met Peter Pan yet; we only just met a mysterious Shadow. So, there may not even be a Peter Pan yet, and it could be that Baelfire must first capture the Shadow to take on the role of Pan, and I believe he’d become a good version of Pan and let the Lost Boys leave NL. We know Neal ended up back in our world circa 1991, so he may have even accompanied them here, and I bet he used pixie dust to fly to our world. How else would he get back to Earth?

That statue looks more like the Pied Piper what is he holding in his hand?

I agree, and I really like the theory that the Shadow acts as some sort of Pied Piper, but again, the shadow doesn’t equal Peter Pan himself. The two might be connected, but it could just be as I theorized that whoever subdues the Shadow, controls it, and Bae could fill a leadership vaccum and become a good Pan.

Maybe they are alluring to the fact that PP will be the next story, the time on the clock was the same time Emma broke the curse, with Bae it was him starting to go to NL wonder why they made the time the same? ❓

Eddy and Adam love dropping little clues even two years before they even get to that point they’re alluding to in the story. The clock being at 8:15 is a clear Disney Easter Egg. Edward Kitsis has said his favorite children’s story is Peter Pan, so it’d make a lot of sense for the producers to allude to the Disney cartoon version PP in the show they created. They’ve wanted to include PP ever since they first wrote the pilot, so they added little clues like the clock tower in SB was always set to 8:15 because time was frozen; it’s a literary allusion to the fact that in the Disney cartoon, Big Ben’s clock was also set to 8:15 when Peter and the Darling children landed on it while en route to NL. Here is clear confirmation that Eddy and Adam were making an allusion to the Disney cartoon version of PP:

Eddy: By the way, I don’t know if you know this or not, but rewatching Peter Pan, which we’ve done on numerous times, the clock, Big Ben, is set to 8:15 in the movie. It’s at 8:14, and when the kids land on it, it goes to 8:15. [NOTE: 8:15 is the time the town’s clock in Storybrooke was stuck at before Emma appeared in the first episode of season one.]
Coincidence?
Adam: Or not.
source: http://d23.disney.go.com/news/2013/04/d23-presents-once-upon-a-times-season-finale-surprises/

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

But we haven’t met Peter Pan yet; we only just met a mysterious Shadow. So, there may not even be a Peter Pan yet, and it could be that Baelfire must first capture the Shadow to take on the role of Pan, and I believe he’d become a good version of Pan and let the Lost Boys leave NL. We know Neal ended up back in our world circa 1991, so he may have even accompanied them here, and I bet he used pixie dust to fly to our world. How else would he get back to Earth?

I think this is a really good point. This shadow may or may not be PP. We haven’t met PP yet. For all we know, PP is being held against his will and the shadow is being controlled by his captors, sent out to collect little boys. If it is PP then they are setting him up to be–if not an outright villain–then something you don’t want to mess with.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

I like Price’s explanation too. There always was the childish side to Peter Pan not just the heroic side. (Speaking of childish sides….does the the abbreviation PP make anyone else snicker?) Someone said something about how he would swap sides in a fight to keep it interesting.

I also like RG’s notion that Bae ends up being Pan in reverse. That would be a definite twist–along with Hook being his mentor rather than antagonist. Different enough that A&E comments don’t directly contradict things.

To it, I’ll add another spin:

What if Bae never actually goes by “Peter Pan”. He might take on the name Peter–perhaps gives that to Hook when Hook asks him who he is. I wonder if he recognizes Hook, but Hook doesn’t recognize him right away, so he lies about his name. Perhaps the shadow thing is called “Pan”–and the story we know mashed them together but instead of mashing things together for ONCE, this time they take a character apart. So Bae will (with Hook’s help) defeat the shadow thing in some way–not combine with it or take over as leader on the island.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[mujie]

Hmm… So the Milah Rumple Hook incident must’ve happened less than 6 months after Bae left him I’d guess?

I wonder if Bae knows the relationship between Hook and Rumple in past FTL.

[RumplesGirl]

@mujie wrote:

Hmm… So the Milah Rumple Hook incident must’ve happened less than 6 months after Bae left him I’d guess?

I wonder if Bae knows the relationship between Hook and Rumple in past FTL.

The timeline is messy, again. Here’s what we know

1) Hook comes to port and meets Milah
2) Milah runs off with Hook. Bae is about 6 years old.
3) Rumple becomes the Dark One. He loses Bae soon after. Bae is 14.
4) Bae lives in London for six months
4a) Rumple runs back into Milah and Hook. Rumple kills Milah and takes Hook’s hand
5) Hook goes back to NL.
6) Hook meets Bae.

So yes, when Rumple met Milah and Hook for the second time and they dueled, it must have been about 6 months since he lost Bae. I thought it was a greater span of time because Rumple was more powerful than he was in The Return but now we have to fit in Bae and Hook.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

@mujie wrote:

Hmm… So the Milah Rumple Hook incident must’ve happened less than 6 months after Bae left him I’d guess?

I wonder if Bae knows the relationship between Hook and Rumple in past FTL.

Baelfire was only about 5 when he found his mother in the tavern with Killian Jones, but I think he was too young to understand what was really going on. I certainly don’t have crystal clear memories from when I was that young. Also, Rumple had told Bae his mother was dead, rather than the truth, which was that Milha had abandoned her husband and child to have an affair with a pirate. Then Bae went through the portal just before Rumple killed Milha, meaning Hook must’ve arrived in NL only shortly before Bae did. There was no way Bae knew the truth about how his mother ran off with Killian or how Rumple killed her and then cut off Captain Hook’s hand. But I have a feeling Captain Hook will recognize Baelfire’s name and then proceed to tell his tale of woe to Bae.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[lilysmom]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

I made a very interesting observation here. You can see the screenshots I posted, along with the summary about why I think Baelfire could eventually become Peter Pan. Basically, Phee had predicted Bae would come through the portal to Kensington Gardens, where there is a statue of Peter Pan in real life. Then, I observed in “Second Star to the Right” that is indeed where Baelfire came through! Both Peter and Bae have their origins there. I posted a screenshot of the plaque that said Kensington Gardens.

I am completely on board with the idea that Bae is going to eventually become Peter Pan and free the lost boys.

[lilysmom]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

@mujie wrote:

Hmm… So the Milah Rumple Hook incident must’ve happened less than 6 months after Bae left him I’d guess?

I wonder if Bae knows the relationship between Hook and Rumple in past FTL.

Baelfire was only about 5 when he found his mother in the tavern with Killian Jones, but I think he was too young to understand what was really going on. I certainly don’t have crystal clear memories from when I was that young. Also, Rumple had told Bae his mother was dead, rather than the truth, which was that Milha had abandoned her husband and child to have an affair with a pirate. Then Bae went through the portal just before Rumple killed Milha, meaning Hook must’ve arrived in NL only shortly before Bae did. There was no way Bae knew the truth about how his mother ran off with Killian or how Rumple killed her and then cut off Captain Hook’s hand. But I have a feeling Captain Hook will recognize Baelfire’s name and then proceed to tell his tale of woe to Bae.

I think you are right that Hook i going to recognize Bae right away, but I dont think that he is goint to let the “cat out of the bag” right away. Maybe there will be a part of Hook that wants to be a father figure to Bae because he is Milah’s son. He is afraid if Bae knew the truth that that would not be possible. So, he just takes Bae under his wing. Unfortunately, Hook’s need for revenge will get in the way and he and Bae will have some sort of falling out.

[Slurpeez]

@lilysmom wrote:

@slurpeez108 wrote:

@mujie wrote:

Hmm… So the Milah Rumple Hook incident must’ve happened less than 6 months after Bae left him I’d guess?

I wonder if Bae knows the relationship between Hook and Rumple in past FTL.

Baelfire was only about 5 when he found his mother in the tavern with Killian Jones, but I think he was too young to understand what was really going on. I certainly don’t have crystal clear memories from when I was that young. Also, Rumple had told Bae his mother was dead, rather than the truth, which was that Milha had abandoned her husband and child to have an affair with a pirate. Then Bae went through the portal just before Rumple killed Milha, meaning Hook must’ve arrived in NL only shortly before Bae did. There was no way Bae knew the truth about how his mother ran off with Killian or how Rumple killed her and then cut off Captain Hook’s hand. But I have a feeling Captain Hook will recognize Baelfire’s name and then proceed to tell his tale of woe to Bae.

I think you are right that Hook i going to recognize Bae right away, but I dont think that he is goint to let the “cat out of the bag” right away. Maybe there will be a part of Hook that wants to be a father figure to Bae because he is Milah’s son. He is afraid if Bae knew the truth that that would not be possible. So, he just takes Bae under his wing. Unfortunately, Hook’s need for revenge will get in the way and he and Bae will have some sort of falling out.

Good point! Hook may recognize Bae without immediately telling him about his affair with Milha or his dealings with Rumple. In fact, Hook may purposefully conceal this knowledge from Baelfire, at least initially, as a way to gather intel about how to defeat the Dark One. Maybe after gaining Bae’s trust, Hook hopes to use Bae to discover a weakness or weapon that could kill Rumple. That could backfire and be what Bae and Hook have a falling out over. As much as Bae dislikes his father’s magic, he wouldn’t want to help Hook kill his own dad. That could be what prompts Baelfire to leave the relative “safety” of the Jolly Roger to set foot on NL to take on the Shadow. That is when Bae becomes the Pan and the strife between Hook and him begins.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Author]

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