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RumplesGirl wrote:
Something I found really interesting: the Sultan seemed to be challenging Jafar, like he has a death wish. I think the Sultan wants Jafar to kill him so Jafar can’t go through with his plan to force the Sultan to love Jafar. That speaks *volumes* to me.Oh yeah. I absolutely think the Sultan would rather die than to give into what Jafar wants. He knows even if Jafar succeeds, the outcome won’t be what Jafar truly wanted. It will be hollow.
Which adds to the Sultan’s complexity, doesn’t it? Is it a small streak of nobility? He’d rather die than allow Jafar to break the laws of magic? Or is it selfishness that drives him–he’d rather die than ever be forced to love Jafar? I think the Sultan is a straight up terrible human being, but I have to wonder if he’s more psychologically complex than just “bad daddy”
Psychology and Once Upon a Time — if anyone ever wrote it, that would be the longest meta/essay monster thing ever. So much material to sort through. Lol. Not just in Wonderland, in the parent show as well.
I agree @slurpeez108 it’s probably better for Jafar’s own sanity to simply disown his daddy and move on with his life. But then again, if he did that in the beginning, the show wouldn’t quite half as interesting to watch.
[adrotate group="5"]If Cyrus knew the full story of the Sultan would he still want to help him? and would he see Jafar as a villain?
Cyrus said he knows what’s in a persons heart after being a genie for so long. What does he see when he look at Jafar and the Sultan?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"If Cyrus knew the full story of the Sultan would he still want to help him? and would he see Jafar as a villain? Cyrus said he knows what’s in a persons heart after being a genie for so long. What does he see when he look at Jafar and the Sultan?
I don’t know but both are very good questions.
Cyrus is a pretty compassionate person, so if he sees what is happening to Jafar on an internal level, he might prevent Alice from flat out killing Jafar.
Maybe the ultimate endgame for Jafar isn’t love but accepting that he’ll never have the Sultan’s love.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I just am skeptical that Jafar has his humanity intact, and maybe the Sultan knows it. Perhaps all Jafar wants is for the Sultan to love him so he can kill him and make him feel the pain he felt–the ultimate in cold revenge. Jafar’s lack of compassion for Alice’s father or for Alice who suffered so similarly to him in some ways is what makes me really wonder if Jafar does want love at all. I wonder who Jafar’s mother really was, or what she was now, and whether there’s things the Sultan knows that we don’t just yet about that whole situation. How far into middle eastern Djini mythology are they going? There are some frightening creatures.
Even if they don’t go there, something is off about Jafar’s resurrection. Did the Jabberwock perhaps have a hand in it? Magic isn’t supposed to bring you back from the dead, so what did bring him back?
Maybe Jafar will turn a corner and he will join the others to defeat the Jabberwock, realize he doesn’t need the Sultan’s love and be redeemed–but its not so bad to have one villain we’re meant to root against, because they have so little time left in this story for a good redemption arc to play out meaningfully. I adore Naveen Andrews and know he can play very complicated and layered characters, but so far Jafar seems to be wound too tightly around his own path of revenge to where he’s shown too little compassion for others.
I suppose we’ll see.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I just am skeptical that Jafar has his humanity intact, and maybe the Sultan knows it. Perhaps all Jafar wants is for the Sultan to love him so he can kill him and make him feel the pain he felt–the ultimate in cold revenge. Jafar’s lack of compassion for Alice’s father or for Alice who suffered so similarly to him in some ways is what makes me really wonder if Jafar does want love at all.
I see what you’re saying but I think Jafar just has an incredibly myopic vision of his plan, come heck or high water he is GOING to have his father say he loves Jafar–he’s very Regina with making Snow suffer and Rumple with making sure Regina cast the Curse.
But as far as Jafar’s humanity, I disagree with you. I go back to 107 where Jafar was standing in front of his father and said, “just say it. Just say the words. Just call me your son,” and I really truly believe that in that moment had the Sultan said in (even if it was a lie) Jafar might have given up his plans. Naveen is such a great actor and he did a great job being that wounded little boy in that moment when his father rejects him again.
He might not be satisfied down the road knowing it was false coerced love, but right then and there I think all he wanted was some proof that he could get the Sultan’s love without breaking the laws of magic.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It is possible that’s true similar to Liz saying to Will, it doesn’t have to be love, just feel something for me! Tragic consequences of course to getting what you wish, and that could be true to Jafar’s situation as well. He doesn’t care at this point but he needs something, anything!
What makes me wonder though as I said is the unexplained resurrection. He seemed like as the Jabberwock dug in his memories, to actually die again and I wonder if he CAN die? The counterparts to genies are “ifrits” –there’s a couple of different versions of what/how they are created some involving sandstorms and murder and such.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I’m sorry, I just don’t understand Jafar at all! Why does he even need his father’s love? he didn’t even know the guy existed, or that he was his father before his mother told him at age… what age was he? 9? 10? well, anyway, He already HAD another father which he thought was his, and was dead, so why does he WANT the sultan to love him?? it’s just it boggles my mind!!
Take Pan for example, He raised his son until age 7 or 8 or so, right? and He looked like he truly loved his son, if you look at the body language in “think lovely thoughts”, he did love Rumpelstiltskin, he really DID, and Rumpelstiltskin felt it and really, this Pan was the only father he knew. when he suddenly turned around and abandoned him, and then told him he didn’t regret it and never ever loved him, I can SEE why HE would act like Jafar and try to force that love BACK. but Sultan NEVER LOVED HIM he never even KNEW him, so WHY WHY WHY would Jafar even CARE???
therefore I do agree with KFC, there’s SOMETHING else THERE
(gah! now I’m all feels… that kiss at the end right before they died together… you think Pan got ANY of that love back or did he die believeing he hated his son?)
Because all children want their parents love.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Because all children want their parents love.
um… yeah… but if I were Jafar, Sultan was nothing but a sperm donor. Jafar HAD parents who loved him. they were dead, but he HAD love. to try to make a stranger (ok his biological father, but still a stranger for all he ever knew) love him like a parent, I mean it’s just weird… especially if he shows him that he wants no part of that!
again, I compare him to Rumpelstiltskin, where his biological father was ALL HE HAD, this was it for him, he knew no other parental love so when he suddenly became Pan and began to HATE him, I would UNDERSTAND if he would try to change the rules of magic and try to force him to love again, but Jafar? he never even KNEW the guy… he was nothing to him until a few days before trying to kill him.
SOMETHING is off with him. I bet Sultan recognized his mother who might have been some sort of a witch who made him give her a baby (Jafar) and sultan never loved her. maybe she forced Sultan in some way. I bet sultan wanted to make the world a better place by killing Jafar, maybe he saw something in him that was dangerous…
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