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I completely with @PriceOfMagic that Snow was pushing Emma towards Neal because she approved she wanted to believe or she assumed that Neal and Emma was just like Charming and her. Finding each other no matter when or where a fairy tale romance but she forgets that Neal and Emma met and had been in a relationship in real world like real relationships just like we have they had money problems family problems real life problems. And then Neal left her and Emma ended up in jail. Don’t get me wrong i am not saying the love they shared wasn’t true or Neal was a bad guy i am just saying in real life ones relationships end they are end. No matter how you feel you just accept that is over at some point. I think Snow became a type of mother who says ‘ because i said so’ Emma should do the things Snow felt like it is the right option for her daughter.
Beside of her relationship with Emma i think her character became more like a Real house wife of Storybrooke than a bandit princess in season 1. Just the other day i was talking with my friend we both think that the endless optimism made her look like a dumb this season i mean we all know hope is very big part of her character but shutting your eyes through the things around you is pure idiotic. I know she was pregnant but i don’t know something about her pisses me in last season ( both season 3A-B) not just her but most of the characters like Belle,David,Emma even Henry and in the second half of the season Rumple makes me annoyed. Though Hook and Regina made so much improvement the others just get worse but with my all respect but it wasn’t for making Hook and Regina look good that is just because i wasn’t so impressed with them either in season 2 so yeah i hope Snow will have some hard time in season 4 that will make her remember who she actually is other wise i don’t think the audience will be very happy about it.[adrotate group="5"]This is a difficult one. I don’t think a parent can really be the friend of their child. A friend is on an equal standing with the child whilst a parent is an authority figure and therefore a higher position.
But as Emma points out in 301, how much wisdom can Snow really share when they are the same age? Snow doesn’t have the life experience to teach Emma, not really. Especially not in the “real” world.
In the 3B finale, Emma acknowledged Snowing as “mom and dad” without the threat of imminent death looming over them. However, I don’t see Emma suddenly playing doting daughter when she has spent 28 years without parents, it wouldn’t be a role that comes naturally to Emma. So Whilst I could see Emma somewhat acknowledging Snowing as her parents and calling them mom and dad, I don’t see her treating them as a child would normally treat their parents.
I think she’ll call them mom and dad more but I really hope the writers recognize that one trip into the past does not erase all the heartache.
Snow as new mom…yeah. I hated her confession in the cave; she has a right to want more children but she should have said it in a way that doesn’t make your daughter (who just admitted that she felt like an orphan) feel like crap. One second Snow is saying, “I’m here to change how you feel” to Emma and the next she’s reinforcing Emma’s feelings of abandonment by saying that she want a new baby because Emma isn’t what she needs. It’s a bit….back and forth. Now, this could have been because A and E needed Snow to be pregnant because of GG but it doesn’t erase the incredibly uneven writing.
I think Snow would make a great mom and I love Momma Bear Snow, but I need Snow to also be Bandit! Snow again.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Snow had every right to be a mother again, wanting a new baby etc but the reasoning behind it wasn’t because she wanted to extend the family because she felt like she had so much love to give. It was tactless and insensitive even for Snow. The current relationship with Emma wasn’t what SHE wanted, SHE wanted to play mom to a new child because SHE didn’t get to dress Emma up and take her to balls etc. The reasoning behind wanting a new baby was completely and utterly selfish.
Here’s a question: Is Snow actually quite a selfish character but gets a pass for it because she’s a “hero”? For example:
She told Cora Regina’s secret because SHE didn’t want Regina to lose her mother.
She stopped Regina’s execution because SHE wanted to give Regina another chance despite Regina’s wrong doings.
She wanted another child because SHE didn’t have the relationship with Emma that SHE wanted.
She called Charming away from trying to track down the WW because SHE wanted Charming to meet the midwife.All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixHere’s a question: Is Snow actually quite a selfish character but gets a pass for it because she’s a “hero”? For example: She told Cora Regina’s secret because SHE didn’t want Regina to lose her mother. She stopped Regina’s execution because SHE wanted to give Regina another chance despite Regina’s wrong doings. She wanted another child because SHE didn’t have the relationship with Emma that SHE wanted. She called Charming away from trying to track down the WW because SHE wanted Charming to meet the midwife.
Interesting questions. But I would argue back that it presupposes that Snow is nothing but selfish. Many o her actions have been selfless.
She at the apple and went into the death like sleep so that Regina wouldn’t kill Charming
She would let Graham kill her in order for Regina to feel better.
She was unwilling to kill another person so that her own mother could live.
Those are selfless acts that put her in the hero category.
Now as to your questions, I would say that some it self-righteous selfishness, if that’s a thing (I decree it so)
In her mind, loosing your mother is the worst thing that can happen to you. So, by telling Cora she’s HELPING Regina, though Regina did not ask for it. In Snow’s mind, she is doing the right thing.
In her mind, death is the final solution when all else fails. She stopped Regina’s execution because she believed that Regina could change. She’s giving Regina a shot to change, chancing her own safety in the process.
I think Snow sees herself as others see her: pure, innocent, and a bit of a saint. She’s Saint Snow in her own head, though without the negative ramifications. She can save everyone if she just believes it hard enough. It’s a unique quality, I’ll grant her that. And it stems from being unable to save her own mother at young age (queue Screwball essay on character who repeat their greatest traumas, I’m sure POM can link it for those interested) But Snow thinks that she has the salvation of everyone on her shoulders so therefore she has to save them. Because she sees herself as acting from a place of good, she never sees far enough to see the damage she’ll do in the process.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"The simplest over all wrap up of Snow White is simple!
She was a self righteous hero, who felt that her and her family were d*** near perfect! However the episode of Bleeding Through showed her that she should not be as boastful of her family as she thought she would, and that kinda toned her down in a sense to me, that actually made her somewhat likeable in that episode.
It showed that Evil isn’t born…it’s made, and that Good also isn’t necessarily born, it’s made. Bleeding Through was a wake up call…
Now as for Seasons 1 & 2 Snow White being selfish, but they always back it up with her doing a selfless act so she can look like the hero….
And I still question whether or not Snow White lied to the people about her part in Regina’s wrath? Because in the Pilot…she told Charming that Regina poisoned her because she was prettier….a lie isn’t nothing for a Descendant from the White Family to tell…
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
And I still question whether or not Snow White lied to the people about her part in Regina’s wrath? Because in the Pilot…she told Charming that Regina poisoned her because she was prettier….a lie isn’t nothing for a Descendant from the White Family to tell…
This isn’t a plot thing. This is a PILOT problem. The show was just beginning. You can’t go into your mythology or you’ll confuse people. Instead you give them something they’ll recognize. That line was A and E drawing people into the series with something that the audience understands because that’s the version of Snow White we know. Honestly, the line should be stricken from our memories are a pilot blunder in order to keep their audience.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"And I still question whether or not Snow White lied to the people about her part in Regina’s wrath? Because in the Pilot…she told Charming that Regina poisoned her because she was prettier….a lie isn’t nothing for a Descendant from the White Family to tell…
This isn’t a plot thing. This is a PILOT problem. The show was just beginning. You can’t go into your mythology or you’ll confuse people. Instead you give them something they’ll recognize. That line was A and E drawing people into the series with something that the audience understands because that’s the version of Snow White we know. Honestly, the line should be stricken from our memories are a pilot blunder in order to keep their audience.
Adam and Eddy said they knew what Snow had done from the very start…if they wanted to do that, they could have simply had one of the dwarfs discuss that portion while on the roof of why The Queen may hate Snow, but instead they allow Snow White to say it. It’s no longer relevant due to the current circumstances the gang is about to face, I was just wondering if anyone knew the truth rather than the “Whose The Fairest” tale Snow may or may have not given.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
And I still question whether or not Snow White lied to the people about her part in Regina’s wrath? Because in the Pilot…she told Charming that Regina poisoned her because she was prettier….a lie isn’t nothing for a Descendant from the White Family to tell…
This isn’t a plot thing. This is a PILOT problem. The show was just beginning. You can’t go into your mythology or you’ll confuse people. Instead you give them something they’ll recognize. That line was A and E drawing people into the series with something that the audience understands because that’s the version of Snow White we know. Honestly, the line should be stricken from our memories are a pilot blunder in order to keep their audience.
Adam and Eddy said they knew what Snow had done from the very start…if they wanted to do that, they could have simply had one of the dwarfs discuss that portion while on the roof of why The Queen may hate Snow, but instead they allow Snow White to say it. It’s no longer relevant due to the current circumstances the gang is about to face, I was just wondering if anyone knew the truth rather than the “Whose The Fairest” tale Snow may or may have not given.
They may have known once they say down and wrote the rest of the episodes, like episode 3 or 4. but there is time in between writing a pilot, shooting a pilot, getting picked up, shooting the rest of the series. I don’t think they necessarily had it in their head that Snow had told Regina’s secret. In 103, Snow Falls, she says that she ruined Regina’s life but at that point, Snow does’t know anything about Daniel being dead. And it’s what the audience expects: why would Evil Queen go after Snow? Well, duh. Disney told me that when I was a kid! To sell the show you have to give the audience something they know, esepcially when you’re entire premise is “you know nothing. here’s the real story” if you hit them with too much (snow and Charming have a daughter! who has a son! who is adopted by Evil Queen! Shenanigans ensue!) they’ll leave.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"And I still question whether or not Snow White lied to the people about her part in Regina’s wrath? Because in the Pilot…she told Charming that Regina poisoned her because she was prettier….a lie isn’t nothing for a Descendant from the White Family to tell…
This isn’t a plot thing. This is a PILOT problem. The show was just beginning. You can’t go into your mythology or you’ll confuse people. Instead you give them something they’ll recognize. That line was A and E drawing people into the series with something that the audience understands because that’s the version of Snow White we know. Honestly, the line should be stricken from our memories are a pilot blunder in order to keep their audience.
Adam and Eddy said they knew what Snow had done from the very start…if they wanted to do that, they could have simply had one of the dwarfs discuss that portion while on the roof of why The Queen may hate Snow, but instead they allow Snow White to say it. It’s no longer relevant due to the current circumstances the gang is about to face, I was just wondering if anyone knew the truth rather than the “Whose The Fairest” tale Snow may or may have not given.
They may have known once they say down and wrote the rest of the episodes, like episode 3 or 4. but there is time in between writing a pilot, shooting a pilot, getting picked up, shooting the rest of the series. I don’t think they necessarily had it in their head that Snow had told Regina’s secret. In 103, Snow Falls, she says that she ruined Regina’s life but at that point, Snow does’t know anything about Daniel being dead. And it’s what the audience expects: why would Evil Queen go after Snow? Well, duh. Disney told me that when I was a kid! To sell the show you have to give the audience something they know, esepcially when you’re entire premise is “you know nothing. here’s the real story” if you hit them with too much (snow and Charming have a daughter! who has a son! who is adopted by Evil Queen! Shenanigans ensue!) they’ll leave.
Hehheheheheehhe!!!!!!!!!!! That is really so true….you can’t tell a story all dry, you’ve got to sell it!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Regina was jealous of Snow, of her having all she wished for from her point of view. Snow had her true love Prince Charming, the people loved and helped Snow even despite the threats and fear Regina spread, even someone as seemingly uninterested in humans as the hunter Graham, who preferred to live with wolfs and pretty much despised humans, “fell” for the sweetness and innocence Snow seemed to represent to people. Regina saw a different Snow, one who couldn’t keep her mouth shut, who believed she was good and doing good but caused that way havoc in Regina’s life, who was adored by her father to a degree of being a spoiled brat. People assumed an inner beauty in Snow, that from the point of view of Regina wasn’t there.
It was not about the outer beauty, or only in the sense, that we in general assume a connection between inner and outer beauty. It would have been maybe a bit clearer if they’d used the phrase as it was in the fairy tale (and if I remember correctly as well in the animated movie): “fairest of them all”, so instead of pretty let have Snow said, “she thought I was fairer than her”. Problem is, many are not aware of that meaning of fair, the meaning of beautiful to look at. To me that sentence was not a lie, more of a misplaced linguistic modernisation of a thought at the very core of the Snow White tale, Snow’s alleged pureness and (inner) beauty. A nod to the movie, to what people know about the tale but written badly. It was odd that Snow used the word pretty instead of fair seeing that otherwise they let the characters talk old fashioned in the EF. Unnecessary and in this case even misleading modernisation for the sake of getting a modern audience into it.
Ginnifer Goodwin said in an interview though as well, that they played a bit with the vanity of Snow, who after all in the tale is blended by shiny things, typical young woman so to speak though, like a nice comb, silky laced bodices, a tasty looking apple.
You can find that interview btw on the first page of this thread.
I have some problems with the overall writing and with the writing of snow concerning relationship to Emma, but making Snow a somewhat ambiguous character, and they did that from the pilot on, was a rather good move. People though struggle to see Snow in a less favorable way, and I think they don’t really bring it across. Good intentions by the writers but not so good execution. The twisted thing is, that Mary Margaret in some ways might have been actually the better version of Snow, exception maybe the bandit Snow side. It would be rather ironic, if Regina’s Dark Curse brought out the better of Snow, her actual beauty and fairness. Regina might have thought, might have been made to believe she was in control of the curse, but she never fully was. Besides that Rumple was the true mind behind it, think the curse had a bit of a mind of its own.
And still the Dark Curse did its job, as Ginny quite nicely describes it in that interview, MM is constantly getting in her own way. Even after the curse is broken she still does.
I agree with @WickedRegal that Snow is a bit of a self righteous hero. She is frequently missing how ambiguous good intentions can be at times. Not sure if I said it here in the forums before, but IMO most heroes are the fools doing the stupid stuff but getting away with and in most cases save lifes. What they do might have been not even the reasonable thing to do, though it was despite all the right thing to do (reasonable and right are different from what we choose mostly to belief in our modern scientific world view not automatically one and the same). And doing the right not always means doing good for all who would deserve it, it can have plenty of shades of grey. The problem is, that some of the people convinced that they are the good guys just can’t admit it, that good and evil are often not that far from each other, not as clear cut as we wish it to be.
Snow should know better, but she chooses to wrap herself into some pink bubble of hope again and again (while Regina is the other end of the scale, wrapping herself again and again in a black bubble of despair).
This is a difficult one. I don’t think a parent can really be the friend of their child. A friend is on an equal standing with the child whilst a parent is an authority figure and therefore a higher position.
But as Emma points out in 301, how much wisdom can Snow really share when they are the same age? Snow doesn’t have the life experience to teach Emma, not really. Especially not in the “real” world.
Seeing it somewhat different what parents are or should be. The role of parents is in constant change with the child growing up, but that might be because I grew up with what is called a democratic parenting style, in our case leaning more to the permissive side than authoritarian. Seeing parents less in a higher position but more in a position of more experience and knowledge which is what establishes a (timely limited) authority until the child is able to judge in the matters itself. In other words, with the increase of knowledge and experience of the child the authority of the parents decreases. At best it leads to a change over time in relationship of parents and child coming closer to a friendship, mutual respect and care without (forced) dependency.
But besides that, because Snow didn’t raise Emma any attempt to parent Emma is stupid, the only chance for a good relationship to her is to become her friend.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
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