Snow's Only Cares about Charming

[BelleOfTheBall]

Did it bother anyone else that anything and everything that came out of MM mouth this whole episode had to do with her saving Charming?  Henry is dying, she see’s him unconscious and all she cares about is Rumple being in a box and how David will get home.  This is your grandson an inch from death in front of your eyes and your thoughts are on Charming remaining on the island.

I get it. You dont want to live there.  I get it.  You will have to be away from your family from the rest of your life and that is devastating, But Charming understands there are bigger things at hand.  After all, if they dont stop Pan everyone would undoubtedly be dead and no one would be together.

Just kind of bothered me that she only cared about that.

[TheWatcher]

I agree, its like when she told them she wanted another baby. Snow is…..kinda shellfish >>

"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC

[RumplesGirl]

I was bothered that her reaction to Rumple in the box and Henry’s heart being taken was “but then David won’t be saved” because David obviously “made peace with that” and was more concerned about Henry (ever the white knight, David is) but I feel as though she made up for it by she saying that if had to stay on the island for the rest of her life, she was going to spend every last possible second with her daughter. She also said in 308 that leaving Emma would kill her but leaving Charming would kill her to.

I don’t know how much I can fault Snow. Emma has been saying all season long that while she loves her parents and doesn’t want to be separated from them, she doesn’t need them as much as Snow wants to be needed. I don’t think her desire for another baby is selfish, I think it’s human. What I didn’t like was that she didn’t ask Emma to cover her ears or something. I think Emma and Snow have a really long way to go but Snow, right now, is caught between a rock and a hard place. Your true love or your adult child?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[truidia]

I noticed it but it didn’t bother me because I don’t I think it’s out of character. Just like they try to portray Regina and Rumple as morale grey (really dark grey), Snow hasn’t been the unflinching white hat that the Disney movie created. And that’s a good thing. I like complex characters with human motivations. Throughout the show we’ve learned that Snow worst quality is that she can be extremely selfish. Is she always selfish? Of course not, it’s just a quality of her character, introduced when she was a child (bratty Snow was the worst), that comes out every now an then.

Examples:

1) Previously mentioned bratty Snow assuming that her birthday ball was being held for the Kingdom to honor her.

 

2) Regina offered her a chance to give up her rite to the thrown and live with her Sheppard Prince, happily ever after. But it was her fathers Kingdom and a least a part of her wanted her birth right, to hell with the peasants that would die in the coming war. I know, you all argue what Regina wouldn’t have honored that deal and that she would have been a tyrant. That may well be true, but Snow didn’t consider that when making her choice. She made her choice because Charming convinced her that she could defeat Regina with a fake sword and she wanted to be a Princess again.

3) She didn’t kill Regina. TWICE. Snow she is a mass murderer, standing in front of you and twice you let her go to ruin more lives. Why? WHY? Because… that’s not who she wanted to be. She couldn’t bare to be a person that would take another’s life (even justly) and in the process left the door open for Regina to cast the curse.

4) Using the candle to kill Cora. By her own admission, there were other paths that didn’t involve tricking Regina into killing her own mother. Regardless of whether or not you believe Regina and Cora deserved it, that doesn’t make the act any less evil.

5) Attempted suicide by Regina. This I think is the most selfish thing she’s ever done. Let’s set aside the fact that many consider the act of suicide incredibly selfish in and of itself, as it gives little regard to those being left behind. Snow was more than willing to ruin any chance of Regina ever having a relationship with her adopted son again, because she couldn’t stand the guilt of killing Cora. And then she tried to sell  it as some selfless act of sacrifice, when in reality, she just couldn’t live with what she’d done and was willing to ruin quite a few lives (Charming and Regina’s, and arguable Emma and Henry’s) to end her pain.

6) Cave of secrets confession. I’m paraphrasing here: “Emma dear, you know I love you more than anything and I know that you have serious abandonment issues because just five episodes ago you said as much while crying over that map that led nowhere… but I never got to change every diaper and sooth every fever, so I want another child who I can show the love that you never knew as a child.” I understand it was her inner most secret, and I actually have no problem with her desire to have another child, but could she maybe talk to Emma about this. Let her know that she’s amazing and that there is room in Snow’s heart for more than one child. Just saying.

6) David’s poison problem. Henry who? Must. Save. David.

Now having said that, she is also the second most selfless character on the show (next to Emma). She layered and complex and it’s awesome.

[swanning-off]

Let’s set aside the fact that many consider the act of suicide incredibly selfish in and of itself, as it gives little regard to those being left behind.  

 

No I will not just let that slide :-/

Have you been suicidal? I have. It’s incredibly complex and it is not selfish. When I’ve wanted to kill myself I honestly, truly and deeply believed that I was such a problem for everyone around me that their lives would only be improved by my absence.

Now, objectively that may not be the case (for mum it certainly wouldn’t have been…. jury’s still out on other members of my family!) but the point is that in that moment when you’re considering this incredibly difficult and serious choice, it’s not about you. It is, but it’s not. It’s saying “I can’t go on, and I can’t go on ruining other’s lives by being this disasterous mistake of a person. It would be better for everyone if I wasn’t here.”

That is NOT selfish and I am not going to just let you say that without rebutting you.

[truidia]

So I just knew someone was going to react to that example which is specifically why I said to set that conception aside. That example was about how selfish it was to put that on Regina. To make her do the deed, when it would ruin Reginas already strained relationship with her son. I didn’t argue that suicide is selfish.

[Phee]

Honestly, I think they just needed a character to react about Rumple being in the Box impacting Charming’s ability to live, to make sure the audience was kept up to speed as far as the height of the stakes are concerned, (we’ve had a mini hiatus, after all, so maybe the casual viewers needed a refresher).

I’m quite sure that Snow was plenty concerned about whether her grandson would live or die. And she’d just gotten used to the fact that they were all gonna get to go home after all, and then the rug got pulled out from her all over again. It’s only been a day or so since she’s processed, “My husband almost died and didn’t tell me, OMG I hate him, but I love him so much, and now if I want to stay with him I need to leave our daughter again, and also give up my dream of more kids with him because pregnancy is impossible in NL, but oh YAY we can all go home together after all thanks to Rumple, OH CRAP Rumple’s trapped in Pandora’s Box and Charming can’t leave NL after all?!” We can’t really judge time properly in NL, but it’s been two days at the absolute most since she found out that Charming had been poisoned, and that’s a whole lot to process in the space of two days, so I can cut her a break for being on edge and concerned that Rumple in the box had a negative impact on Charming’s (and in turn her own, and their daughter’s) situation.

2) Regina offered her a chance to give up her rite to the thrown and live with her Sheppard Prince, happily ever after. But it was her fathers Kingdom and a least a part of her wanted her birth right, to hell with the peasants that would die in the coming war. I know, you all argue what Regina wouldn’t have honored that deal and that she would have been a tyrant. That may well be true, but Snow didn’t consider that when making her choice. She made her choice because Charming convinced her that she could defeat Regina with a fake sword and she wanted to be a Princess again.

I don’t think she just wanted to be a Princess again, I think she wanted to do what would serve her people the best in the long run, and being ruled over by Regina wasn’t it. Any leader throughout history who has declared any battle of any kind, bears the responsibility of the human cost of that battle, but sometimes fighting is necessary in order to defeat an evil and powerful opposition.

3) She didn’t kill Regina. TWICE. Snow she is a mass murderer, standing in front of you and twice you let her go to ruin more lives. Why? WHY? Because… that’s not who she wanted to be. She couldn’t bare to be a person that would take another’s life (even justly) and in the process left the door open for Regina to cast the curse.

Regina wasn’t just any old mass murderer, she was a mass murderer who Snow met as a little girl, the day she saved her life, and who she then knew for years as her stepmother. Snow couldn’t stand to watch Regina in particular be executed because she had experienced Regina as a thoughtful, caring person who she felt a familial bond with, and she desperately hoped that that person was still in there somewhere, and maybe if she gave her one more chance, and one more chance, and one more chance, then maybe she’d come good again. It’s a desperate compassion that’s an integral part of Snow’s personality, but I wouldn’t call it selfish. If anything, I’d say that the more selfish choice would have been for Snow to have given up all hope for Regina long ago, let her die, and put her in the past and moved on. It hurts Snow to keep that desperate hope for Regina, but she just can’t give up wishing she’d come good some day.

[swanning-off]

So I just knew someone was going to react to that example which is specifically why I said to set that conception aside…. I didn’t argue that suicide is selfish.

yes you did argue it was, by using it as an example of Snow’s selfishness. And if you knew that saying suicide is selfish would offend someone, then why say it?

[PriceofMagic]

When Snow went to Regina’s with the desire to commit suicide, it was not because she wanted to ruin Regina’s relationship with Henry (Cora had already done that in the Cricket Game when she framed Regina for Archie’s murder) It was to give Regina the chance to get the revenge she always wanted because Snow felt so guilty over what she did to Cora. Snow wanted to repent for what she did, but she also probably reasoned that if she died, Regina would have no reason to hurt the rest of the Charmings.

Regina kept Snow alive, not out of the goodness of her heart, but because it was a better revenge to let Snow live with her guilt and her darkening heart. Snow continues to live, instead of taking her own life, because she has accepted her punishment, that she will have to live with what she did for the rest of her life. That’s not being selfish, that’s honouring the punishment Regina gave her.

Where Snow is most selfish is in Ariel. She blurts out that Neal’s alive to Emma immediately after it was decided that Emma wouldn’t be told right away in order to not upset her. Granted Hook and Charming’s plan had flaws, and there was no way Emma wouldn’t find out, but Snow was selfish in her reasoning for why she told Emma. She believed Neal to be Emma’s true love (And there’s nothing saying he isn’t though there’s nothing saying he is) But Snow is trying to push her feelings and beliefs onto Emma. Snow would want to know if Charming was alive, therefore Emma must want to know that Neal is alive too.

The point I really dislike Snow is in the echo caves. I get why she would want another baby, and she has every right to want another baby, however, the way she presented her reasoning was incredibly selfish and extremely insensitive to Emma. Snow basically tells Emma that the relationship Emma has is “Not what I wanted” because Emma is all grown up. That not only implies that it’s Emma’s fault that Snow can’t get to play mommy but also implies that what Snow wants the new baby for, not out of love or a desire to extend the family, but because Snow wants to play mommy like a child playing with a doll.Screwball Ninja puts it perfectly:

What’s the first thing we find out about Emma? Her massive, Godzilla-sized abandonment issues. She tells Henry right off the bat that the foster family she was with until she was 3 years old GAVE HER BACK once they had a kid of their own. And she cried herself to sleep in foster care because she was waiting for her parents to come and get her. And then Neal and August enchanted dude-bro-ed her into a prison sentence and, you know, giving up her baby. The girl really needs some stability and to feel WANTED, especially by her parents— which she flat-out TOLD her mother in a tearful confession not a couple episodes ago.

And what does Snow White do? Says she wants another baby ‘cause they missed out on Emma’s smaller, more adorable formative years. If that’s how she feels, okay, but then Snow keeps going ON AND ON ABOUT IT, just in case Emma didn’t get the message that the future Snowing fetus is a replacement baby.

Couldn’t Snow have told Emma and Hook to go play pattycake in a corner and shove their fingers in their ears while Snow told Charming her secret? I don’t think Hook, Snow and Charming heard Emma’s confession to Neal, so you don’t have to blurt your secret to the WHOLE cave— just one other person. What on earth was Snow thinking, telling her daughter to her face that she’s smart and pretty and brave and all, but she’s getting a 4-F in the daughter department ‘cause she’s TOO OLD?

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Slurpeez]

Where Snow is most selfish is in Ariel. She blurts out that Neal’s alive to Emma immediately after it was decided that Emma wouldn’t be told right away in order to not upset her. Granted Hook and Charming’s plan had flaws, and there was no way Emma wouldn’t find out, but Snow was selfish in her reasoning for why she told Emma. She believed Neal to be Emma’s true love (And there’s nothing saying he isn’t though there’s nothing saying he is) But Snow is trying to push her feelings and beliefs onto Emma. Snow would want to know if Charming was alive, therefore Emma must want to know that Neal is alive too.

I actually think Snow White was the only one who did the right thing in that instance. Snow wants Emma to hold onto hope. There is nothing selfish about  a mother trying to give her daughter a reason to have faith that happy endings are possible. Snow didn’t say exactly what that happy ending would be, just that Emma owed it to Henry and to herself to find out if Neal were still alive. Snow recognizes that Emma was heartbroken after Emma confessed to her parents about still loving Neal and not getting a chance to find out what that meant. That’s not Snow projecting feelings onto her daughter; that’s Snow recognizing Emma’s feelings for Neal after Emma’s confessions that she was angry about never getting a chance to resolve things with Neal. That’s not selfish of Snow to tell Emma the truth that Neal is alive; if anything, it shows a mother’s concern over her heartbroken daughter. Also, Snow doesn’t want any secrets to come between her and her daughter. I don’t blame her for wanting it out in the open. Also, I think Charming and Hook should not have kept the news of Neal being alive “for her own good” because that is basically taking away Emma’s ability to make decisions for herself. Charming made the mistake of keeping the dreamshade poison a secret from Snow and Emma to “protect them” and it nearly cost him his life! Snow White had to find out later in the Echo Cave from her husband about his near-death experience after it was almost too late. Snow told Emma the truth about Neal being alive because she realizes Emma is an adult who deserves to be told the truth, not a child who needs to be kept in the dark “for her own good.”

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Author]

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