Still from the Episode – Snow and Regina

[RumplesGirl]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

@LaurieAnne wrote:

what kind of “dark” conversation would Regina have with Henry?

The kind where she wants to isolate him from his birth family and kill all his blood relatives so the two of them can be alone together. I doubt she’d say it so forthrightly, but Henry’s no idiot. Although he doesn’t want her dead and wants to see her redeemed, I think he’s aware of Regina’s actions. I fail to see how anyone can defend her right to mother Henry after she has openly tried to murder his parents and grandparents, all because she didn’t want to share custody of Henry.

The same way I can defend Rumple after he threatened to kill the Charmings and said “all wars have costs.” I can sit here and say “well he was scared. He had just lost Belle and when Rumple is scared he goes dark but he would never really hurt Henry” yada yada yada. I’ve done this on multiple occasions. But a lot of it comes down to the fact that I happen to love him as a character so much that I will defend him pretty much against anything. The EvilRegals are the same way. Regina is a murderer and a rapist and pathological and still they will defend her. It’s part of fan culture, when you love someone or something so much you tend to defend them. To take Regina’s side, which I never ever do and can’t believe am doing now, she had just lost her mother. She’s officially all alone in the world and what Regina wants more than anything is love. She’s been denied it for most of her life and when she did it have it, it was taken from her. So she does what she has to to secure it. We always defend Rumple with his manipulation of Regina by saying “what wouldn’t a parent do to find their child?” Well, Regina IS his mother, what wouldn’t she do to be with him?

With that said, I don’t think Henry should be with Regina only, but if she can get back on the no-magic wagon (which I can’t see happening for sometime given that H and K will probably have her be mainly an antagonist because Lana does it so well) she does have certain rights.

[PriceofMagic]

@LaurieAnne wrote:

what kind of “dark” conversation would Regina have with Henry?

Perhaps Regina tells Henry the truth about what’s happening to Snow and what will happen as Snow’s heart continues to darken. Charming and Emma aren’t likely to tell him and if they do they are going to extremely sugarcoat it for him.

Henry makes such a big deal about being lied to and wanting to know the truth. However, I don’t think he’s going to like the cold harsh truth when he actually does hear it.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Slurpeez]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

To take Regina’s side, which I never ever do and can’t believe am doing now, she had just lost her mother.

Regina plotted to kill Snow and her family before Cora died, so it wasn’t Regina’s grief over her mother that made her want to murder.

She’s officially all alone in the world and what Regina wants more than anything is love. She’s been denied it for most of her life and when she did it have it, it was taken from her. So she does what she has to to secure it.

I understand Regina is all alone, but that’s no justification for attempting to murder all of Henry’s relatives. That a sign she’s pathologically unstable and potentially mentally ill. Regina’s obsession over a child’s love is somewhat of a displaced replacement for a deceased lover. In a real court of law, Regina would be deemed unfit to parent a child, since what drives Regina are her own needs, not the welfare of her child, whose happiness she would forever ruin by killing his family.

We always defend Rumple with his manipulation of Regina by saying “what wouldn’t a parent do to find their child?” Well, Regina IS his mother, what wouldn’t she do to be with him?

I understand this is a fantasy program, but I hope in real life no sane or loving parent would commit cold-blooded MURDER of a child’s blood family just to keep a child, which is not in a child’s best interest at all. And Regina is still an addict of magic, and most drug addicts don’t get to keep their children.

There is a story in the Old Testament in which King Solomon presided over a custody battle in which two women claimed to be the mother of a baby. The king ordered the baby be cut in two, half for each woman, but the birth mother cried out not to harm the child and was willing to give the other woman custody. Solomon saw that the woman who was willing to give up the child for his own welfare was the true mother, and he granted her custody the child instead.

This is similar to the struggle between Emma and Regina, who both have a claim to Henry. Yet, Emma was willing to let Henry go to NYC to live with his father and to be safe, thereby putting her child’s needs ahead of her own. While Regina was trying to be a better mother by letting Henry live with David, she is reverting to her old paradigm and plotting to murder Henry’s family, thereby putting her own selfish needs ahead of Henry’s needs or happiness. She would irreparably damage Henry if she had her own way.

With that said, I don’t think Henry should be with Regina only, but if she can get back on the no-magic wagon (which I can’t see happening for sometime given that H and K will probably have her be mainly an antagonist because Lana does it so well) she does have certain rights.

What rights? Rumple said her adopting Henry wasn’t exactly legal. Plus, Baefire never signed away his rights as a father. Regina thinks she can have everything she wants simply by killing Henry’s family and by keeping Henry all to herself, but no child can fix Regina’s pathological issues. Only she can by seeking therapy, to rebuild her life, to give up magic for good, and to let Henry have his birth family, whom he loves and for whom he would sacrifice himself. Will she actually be able to let Henry have his happy ending, as any unselfish, even-kiltered parent would want? Only time will tell.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

I think you and I actually agree on a lot of this, Slurpeez. I think your initial question or statement was how could someone defend her and I decided to put on an EvilRegal hat and try to do it because obviously fans do it.

Regina plotted to kill Snow and her family before Cora died, so it wasn’t Regina’s grief over her mother that made her want to murder.

Very true, Regina has never needed an excuse to go after Snow or the Charming clan. But Cora’s death seems to have escalated it because for a total of 5 seconds Regina finally had her mother’s love.

I understand this is a fantasy program, but I hope in real life no sane or loving parent would commit cold-blooded MURDER of a child’s blood family just to keep a child, which is not in a child’s best interest at all.

Absolutely. No sane or loving human should do that in order to keep their child when it’s not a healthy relationship to begin with. But as you said this is a fantastical program thats conceptual world exists outside of “real world” standards. If we can try to rationalize Rumple’s actions in the EF leading up to the curse and everything he’s done since we have to exhibit at least the same considerations for Regina. *on a side note, I’m very confused with myself because it sounds like I’m defending Regina which..I don’t do. I leave that to the EvilRegals*

I fully agree that Regina is pathological and her actions are not of a sane rational person. As far as rights go, she may not have legal rights if the adoption was not on the up and up but she did raise him for 10 years and Henry does consider her to still be his mother in some regards. Regina needs to learn how to be a mother without resorting to being Cora, but I think that’s a long and complicated road. In the meantime , it’s a Catch-22. Regina will stop at nothing to have Henry in her life but if Emma and Neal probably don’t want her around Henry. What’s the solution? Keeping Henry out of her life is only fostering her resentment and anger but giving in to her on the chance that it will mellow her out doesn’t seem like the best solution either. It’s messy and complicated.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I think you and I actually agree on a lot of this, Slurpeez. I think your initial question or statement was how could someone defend her and I decided to put on an EvilRegal hat and try to do it because obviously fans do it.

I know we agree way more than disagree. I just have little patience for Regina’s lack of character development. I think she’s a very interesting character who is fun to analyze, and Lana is a great actress, but I could never sanction Regina’s evil actions.

But as you said this is a fantastical program thats conceptual world exists outside of “real world” standards. If we can try to rationalize Rumple’s actions in the EF leading up to the curse and everything he’s done since we have to exhibit at least the same considerations for Regina. *on a side note, I’m very confused with myself because it sounds like I’m defending Regina which..I don’t do. I leave that to the EvilRegals*

I know it’s a fantastical show, but I don’t sympathize with either Rumple’s or Regina’s evil acts. Like Baelfire, I love Rumple for the good man he used to be, but I don’t try to justify his acts when harms others as the Dark One.

I fully agree that Regina is pathological and her actions are not of a sane rational person. As far as rights go, she may not have legal rights if the adoption was not on the up and up but she did raise him for 10 years and Henry does consider her to still be his mother in some regards. Regina needs to learn how to be a mother without resorting to being Cora, but I think that’s a long and complicated road. In the meantime , it’s a Catch-22. Regina will stop at nothing to have Henry in her life but if Emma and Neal probably don’t want her around Henry. What’s the solution? Keeping Henry out of her life is only fostering her resentment and anger but giving in to her on the chance that it will mellow her out doesn’t seem like the best solution either. It’s messy and complicated.

I agree that it’s very messy and complicated. I fully understand Regina is a mother-figure to Henry, having raised him for 10 years. So, she could be a part of his life if she gets her act together to be a positive role model (same goes for Rumple). Yet, until then, I think she should only see Henry on supervised visits where she’s on her best behavior. Right now she’s in full-blown Evil Queen mode. She needs to regroup, give up magic, and to start seeing a real shrink (not one who got his PhD from a curse), except that she needs one who understand magic. Maybe Archie should get a real degree. 😉

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

I know we agree way more than disagree. I just have little patience for Regina’s lack of character development. I think she’s a very interesting character who is fun to analyze, and Lana is a great actress, but I could never sanction Regina’s evil actions.

I know this going to incur the wrath of every EvilRegal who reads this post but I want Regina to be the EQ as long as possible because I think she’s much more fun that way. Lana is so good at playing bad that when Regina tried to make a go of redemption early this season it was a bit boring for me. Let her be the antagonist for awhile. Lana obviously relishes it. Rumple will be right there making mistakes and being an equally gray character and I’m fine with that, they’ll get their redemption in the end. But there is something so fun about watching Lana as the EQ.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[tombo671]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I know we agree way more than disagree. I just have little patience for Regina’s lack of character development. I think she’s a very interesting character who is fun to analyze, and Lana is a great actress, but I could never sanction Regina’s evil actions.

I know this going to incur the wrath of every EvilRegal who reads this post but I want Regina to be the EQ as long as possible because I think she’s much more fun that way. Lana is so good at playing bad that when Regina tried to make a go of redemption early this season it was a bit boring for me. Let her be the antagonist for awhile. Lana obviously relishes it. Rumple will be right there making mistakes and being an equally gray character and I’m fine with that, they’ll get their redemption in the end. But there is something so fun about watching Lana as the EQ.

100% Agree! Ive always loved Regina as the EQ, and want her to stay that way, glad we think alike. I hope she still remains evil for a good long time.

[WickedRegal]

This Is How I Feel After Reading Your Posts: 😈

Now, I’m going to say this in one of the most Un-EvilRegal type ways, so it can sound at least a tad bit polite and respectful, instead of rude and wicked as I really want to, but How dare all of you just say what you just said, this goes for all the Regina Bashers except RumplesGirl, for at least she didn’t just jump my Queen the way majority (and you know who you are) did, she listed calm and collect reasons. But why would you people want Regina to stay evil, so you can bash her some more, so she won’t see her happy ending, or because majority of you want to see her dead, while Rumple gains his happy ending. Before I start I want to ask why should Rumple have his happy ending, when he’s been manipulating everything, and now that he got Regina to cast the curse, Emma to break it, Belle back, and his son back, he tosses Regina to leave her with the problems he created originally for her? What’s wrong with some of you????
I will say first of all, let’s get one thing straight. Queen, and yes she is THE QUEEN, Regina has been through a lot in her life, she didn’t have the oh so lucky happy upbringing, as your lovely Snow White, or Charming, or anybody else, and yes her life probably was rougher than Emma’s. She had a mother who didn’t know how to love her, who also PHYSICALLY & MENTALLY ABUSED her, and a father who WOULDN’T PROTECT her. Yes, I will defend Rumple because it wasn’t his fault he’s a coward because his father was one, and yes Dearie fans, your Rumple is a coward, because if he didn’t have magic he would return to his weak crippled self, and before you dare say Regina is a coward too, let’s not forget, when she was captured with no magic and at her execution, THE Queen stared defiantly at death, and dared it. So Regina was gonna go out a trooper and like a boss.
So, my Dearie fans, I side with you on how much I love Rumple, and will defend him, despite what he is, and I’m just gonna lay it out, he may not be responsible for Cora, but he is responsible for Regina, but as you said What wouldn’t a parent do to get back to their child, hence Regina, she loves Henry, and she will always be his first mother, and I don’t give a …… what Rumple says, by law of this world and the United States, Regina is Henry’s legal mother, and she very well could take this to court and get her son back, and have the whole Charming family arrested, because it’s actually like they kidnapped Henry. Yes, Emma may be his biological, but legally, she is not his mother, and Neal’s name may not even be on Henry’s birth certificate. And what evidence will Storybrooke use, that Regina’s the Evil Queen who cursed all of them, because my dears, in this world we would lock anybody up in the crazy house for such allegations. So, the Charmings need to be thankful because Regina isn’t taking them to court for “kidnapping her adoptive son.”
And let’s not stop there, and forgive me for making this so long, but I don’t care what you say to any of us, SNOW WHITE is responsible for Daniel’s death! She might not have been the one to pull the trigger, but she sure as ….. loaded the gun by telling Cora, and I have tried to tell myself that she was a little girl, or that Cora cast a spell, but when I look back at the Stable Boy when she was grilled by the D.A. about Kathryn, open your mind people, and observe, she’s admitted this: “Yes, I wanted her(Daniel) gone, she was the only thing keeping us(Regina and Snow) apart, so yeah, I wanted her(Daniel) gone, is that what you wanna hear?”, and look at Regina’s face because she knows the wench is responsible for Daniel on purpose. Snow was spoiled and selfish as a child so we know that, yes, Eva talked to her, but at one point did she change, by refusing Cora’s candle, don’t know, but the point is despite of how it seemed to look, she wanted Daniel gone so she can have Regina to herself as her mother.
Yes, Regina was a good mother to Henry, what’s exactly a mother’s job: nurture, clean, teach, discipline, love, and care and she did all of that, Henry was just to blind by his views of good and evil, he forgets the shades of grey, and it’s not like Emma is mother of the year, feeding french fries for breakfast, staying up late, having him live in a crammed up apartment, and manage to get a stash of dynamites, and who was the first to find him, Regina!!!! So, Regina is Henry’s mother.
Now you may say what you like, do what you will, but Regina will always be the one who’s had the most pain and agony dealt to her all because of these people people: Rumpelstilskin, Jefferson, Henry Sr., Cora, Dr. Whale, Emma, Henry Jr., and your precious “heart of gold” Snow White! 👿

Moderator’s edit: edited for language. Please remember that we try to be a clean chat/forum and that some words cannot be used here. Many thanks–RG

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[RumplesGirl]

A few thoughts after reading your post (and thank you for trying to keep it polite)

he may not be responsible for Cora, but he is responsible for Regina,

Rumple did manipulate her, I agree. But in We Are Both she admits to how much she loved using magic for power. And when she asks if she’ll turn into Cora by using magic, Rumple’s response is “that, dearie, is entirely up to you.” Regina made her own choices. She chose to study with Rumple, to try and learn magic even though she saw what it did to her mother and the kind of high she personally got from doing it. After she realized she couldn’t bring back Daniel, she chose to go dark. That was her choice. Rumple may have manipulated the situation but she chose to become the Evil Queen. She chose to cast the curse, she chose to hold on to her hatred for Snow, she chose to kill Henry Sr.

SNOW WHITE is responsible for Daniel’s death! She might not have been the one to pull the trigger, but she sure as hell loaded the gun by telling Cora, and I have tried to tell myself that she was a little girl, or that Cora cast a spell, but when I look back at the Stable Boy when she was grilled by the D.A. about Kathryn, open your mind people, and observe, she’s admitted this: “Yes, I wanted her(Daniel) gone, she was the only thing keeping us(Regina and Snow) apart, so yeah, I wanted her(Daniel) gone, is that what you wanna hear?”, and look at Regina’s face because she knows the wench is responsible for Daniel on purpose.

I disagree whole heartdly, I’m afraid. Snow was acting out of concern for Cora (who didn’t deserve it) and Regina. She knows what it is like to lose a parent and didn’t want Regina to suffer the same fate. And as a far as the DA scene you reference, we need to remember that Snow didn’t have her memories. She knew nothing about Daniel and the DA was egging her on and she got angry. The view you suggest is what Regina saw but that’s because that is what Regina WANTED to see. She has never been able to understand that Cora killed Daniel and Snow was innocent in it. It’s misplaced anger because Regina was never able to stand up to her mother.

Yes, Regina was a good mother to Henry, what’s exactly a mother’s job: nurture, clean, teach, discipline, love, and care and she did all of that,

I don’t doubt that she did do all these things, but she also tried to tell Henry that he was crazy. She lied, manipulated and, since you’re accusing Snow of killing Daniel in a roundabout way, by the same token she poisoned/killed Henry,

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[gypsy]

Regina is Henry’s legal mother, and she very well could take this to court and get her son back, and have the whole Charming family arrested, because it’s actually like they kidnapped Henry.

There is no way Regina went through legal channels to adopt Henry.
She’ the Evil Queen from the Enchanted Forest.
She didn’t exist in our world.
She became the Mayor of a town (frozen in time) that also didn’t exist in our world.

Legal= paperwork.
Regina wouldn’t have been able to fill out the most basic of information like phone # and address, because Storybrooke didn’t exist.

When Owen brought the police to the town line, they couldn’t even see Storybrooke, let alone have authority over it and/or uphold any laws.

[Author]

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