Still from the Episode – Snow and Regina

[PriceofMagic]

I can see why WickedRegal would think Henry is selfish, it’s not too bad in season 1 but this season it has been very pronounced. Henry has a very rigid view of right and wrong, he can’t seem to understand there are shades inbetween. Henry is sending very mixed messages to Regina, he refers to her as his mom yet he doesn’t treat her like it. Sometimes when Regina is planning to do something, Henry uses himself as a bargaining tool to make her stop but then just turns his back on her. It’s almost like teasing, Henry offers Regina what she wants so that she does what he wants then he just turns away from her. I feel sorry for Regina in those situations because Lana Parilla does an excellent kicked puppy face especially at the end of Queen of Hearts.

I disliked Henry in Welcome to Storybrooke. I know he’s a kid but his idea to blow up magic using dynamite was just plain stupid. His demands to be told the truth are petulant especially as some of the stuff that happens isn’t really suitable for a child to hear. Henry likes to think he’s grown up but he’s not, and that is going to land him in trouble. Henry thinks he knows best, instead of the adults, but his knowing best involves dynamite which could have killed him.

Henry can be very manipulative with his affections. Throughout season 1, Emma was the best thing since sliced bread for Henry. She could do no wrong and Regina couldn’t do right. Then when Emma fell off her pedestal which Henry put her on in Manhattan, suddenly Neal was the best thing in the world for Henry. This time Neal could do no wrong and Emma couldn’t do right. Henry even tried to cosy up to Rumple until Rumple shot him down. As an 11 year old, Henry must have some awareness of how his behaviour affects Regina and Emma. Granted he’s no master manipulator like Rumple, but he had to know that comparing Emma to Regina would upset Emma and that refusing to see Regina would upset Regina.

In fact the Emma and Regina feud could probably be simmered down if Henry decided to spend a couple of hours a day with Regina. For example, he could go over to Regina’s for lunch on the weekend. Maybe Regina could pick Henry up from school on occasion during the week. It doesn’t have to be an all or nothing situation over Henry for Emma and Regina. True Regina will want more time with Henry but she and Emma can work that out. For example, if Emma decided Henry can spend the nights at Regina’s on weekends only, it gives Regina something to aim for and to look forward to. Sometimes people need a little motivation in order to help them achieve something. Regina thought redemption meant being nice and getting Henry back. It didn’t work so now she’s back on the evil bandwagon. What Regina should have been thinking is that by redeeming herself, she’s making up for all the evil things, and as a result she’ll be able to spend more time with Henry.

[drtslim]

Okay, so storybrooke doesn’t exist to us, but in all honesty, I could care less if Henry would have died from poisoning or whatever, because he really is a selfish kid, you all saw how quickly he turned on Emma, the kid has mommy issues, and don’t dare blame Regina, because she did love him, and yes, she put him in therapy, but had she not been one to adopt him, and Emma kept him, Emma would have put him in therapy.

I’m sorry to disagree, but Regina is the main cause of Henry’s mommy issues. I do not doubt at all that she loved him very much; however, she was very controlling and manipulative. The difference between Emma putting Henry in therapy and Regina doing it is that Emma would do it because she would really believe that Henry needed help. Regina did it because she knew that Henry was onto her and she wanted to discredit him and throw him off of her trail. Someone messing with your head like that through lies and manipulation really affects you. Henry has major issues with mother-figure lying to him because of Regina. That’s why when he found out that Emma had lied about his paternity, he said that she was just like Regina.

I won’t deny that Henry can be bratty and seems to think that he knows best, but given that he was able to figure out something so major that none of the adults around him were able to see, I understand why he believes that to be true. Henry has indeed seemed to be very manipulative with Regina, but given the nature of their relationship I understand why. What Henry needs right now is the sense of security that comes when a child knows that he can count on his parents etc. to take care of him (and in his case the rest of SB). That is really difficult for him, not only because of his trust issues with Regina, but also because of his black-and-white way of viewing the world, which doesn’t really allow for other viewpoints to be considered when he has determined a course of action (or right vs. wrong).

[PriceofMagic]

Henry could turn into the teenager from Hell as the series progresses and he gets older. At the moment none of the adults are giving Henry a talk about the consequences of his actions. When he was disrespecting Emma, nobody reprimanded him for it. Emma apologised to him for lying but he didn’t apologise to her. As far as we know, nobody has reprimanded him for the dynamite fiasco. Everybody is tiptoeing around Henry and sugarcoating everything and not wanting to upset Henry in case he runs off. This is going to lead Henry to believe he can do what he wants when he wants without repercussions.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Slurpeez]

If Henry is manipulative (and he certainly can be), then he must have learned it from Regina. She lies, cheats, manipulates, rapes, murders, steals, and then cries about how no one loves her. While I believe Henry does love Regina, he is afraid of her, of what she might do to his family and to him. Remember he was terrified that Regina would kill Snow White and use her heart to cast the Curse of the Broken Hearted on him. Is it any wonder then that Henry prefers to live with the Charmings? He doesn’t want to be manipulated any longer by the woman who lied to him his entire life. He craves honesty after a lifetime of deceit. At least Emma apologized for lying to Henry about his dad. So far, Regina hasn’t shown any true repentance for her evil deeds. While Regina was certainly a victim of abuse from Cora and even Rumple, she has in turn become an abuser. She gas-lighted Henry for his entire life and inadvertently almost killed him in her attempt to be rid of Emma.

Regina drives away people because she in fact has freely chosen the path of evil. Regina drove away Hansel, Gretle, Graham, and Owen, not just Henry. Henry craves truth, to be free and not to be manipulated, just like Regina wished to be free from her own mother’s tyranny. Yet, Regina has become just like Cora. Regina has emotionally abused Henry and repeatedly attempted to murder his family. As Rumple said, Cora was dangerous because she had no heart, but Regina is dangerous because she does.

No one gets to choose what circumstances they’re born into, but everyone gets to chose what kind of a person she wants to be. After Regina banished her mother to Wonderland, she had the the chance to leave and be free, but she still chose to marry King Leopold. She could have lived a new life with her father when he tried to say they could start over and love each other, but she stabbed him in the back to enact a curse that would only leave a giant hole in her heart. Rumple may have tempted Regina with magic, but she didn’t have to embrace it become like her mother. Regina killed the one person she loved most just so she could have power. Regina has a free-will, but she herself says she never learns from her mistakes. She might have had a second chance with Henry after she spared Snow White and Emma in 2×9, but Regina chose to listen to her mother’s lies again. She should have learned the first time never to trust Cora, knowing Cora was the one who killed Daniel. Regina could have chosen a different path, and yet continues to choose evil over good.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[PriceofMagic]

Regina may have married Leopold before she pushed her mother through the mirror. Regina has done many evil things, there’s no denying that, but she was genuinely trying to change for the better until Cora set her up. Before Archie turned up alive and well, Emma fully believed Regina had killed him. Emma basically banned Regina from ever seeing Henry and told her that she’d always be the evil queen no matter what. By the time Emma realised her mistake, the damage had been done. Cora preyed on Regina whilst she was down and offered Regina the one thing she wanted most- Henry. Regina is going to struggle with redemption, she was having it too easy at the start of the season, the question is, when does Regina cross the point of no return, what can she do that is irredeemable?

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[gypsy]

I think when Regina killed her own father – the only person who seemed to love her unconditionally – is when she crossed the ‘point of no return’.
You can’t come back from that.

[Slurpeez]

@PriceofMagic wrote:

Regina may have married Leopold before she pushed her mother through the mirror.

If you re-watch 2×2, you’ll see that the day Regina pushed Cora through the looking glass was the day before Regina’s wedding. No one forced Regina to go ahead and marry Leopold in a loveless union. Rumple may have wetted her appetite for magic, but it was Regina’s choice to seek out his instruction. That was her own decision to choose power and magic over freedom and a chance not to make her mother’s mistakes. She might have found happiness with her father, and just maybe, found love with another man and had a family in the EF.

Regina has done many evil things, there’s no denying that, but she was genuinely trying to change for the better until Cora set her up. Before Archie turned up alive and well, Emma fully believed Regina had killed him. Emma basically banned Regina from ever seeing Henry and told her that she’d always be the evil queen no matter what. By the time Emma realised her mistake, the damage had been done. Cora preyed on Regina whilst she was down and offered Regina the one thing she wanted most- Henry Regina is going to struggle with redemption, she was having it too easy at the start of the season, the question is, when does Regina cross the point of no return, what can she do that is irredeemable?.

I was really hopeful at the start of season 2 for Regina to redeem herself and was fully supportive of her effort at real change. Yet, it was obvious it wouldn’t last since she was doing it for Henry’s sake, not out of her own true repentance. I actually have come to like Regina. I even argued back before the winter hiatus that the Charmings needed to include Regina in Henry’s life, because I knew Cora’s return would put Regina’s revolve at redemption to the test and even derail any real reform. For sure, Cora manipulated events to make her daughter more “receptive” –what Regina even recognized was a lie and manipulation. Regina always craved her mother’s love, but since Cora didn’t have a heart, she couldn’t truly love her daughter until it was put back into her. Cora preyed on her daughter’s weakness, and though Regina knew in her head that her mother wasn’t to be trusted, her heart got the better of her. Again, Regina is dangerous because she does have a heart. It’s her blind emotion that prompts her to be ultimately destructive. But that doesn’t excuse Regina from being responsible for her evil deeds

Even as a grown woman and a magical queen, Regina turned back into a little child who would be used and abused by her own mother. That was the effect that Cora had on Regina, and so I actually think Regina is better off now that Cora is dead and gone. Regina might just have a shot at true redemption this time if she can learn what her actions really do to people. She hurts the people she loves, including her father and her son. She needs a huge wake-up call before the damage is done irreparably (which you think would’ve been in 1×22 when Regina poisoned Henry). I’d say Henry actually has a lot of patience with Regina, considering how many times she has threatened the people he loves and even him. (Same goes for Rumple by the way; I’m not just picking on Regina. He needs to choose the path of good and to put love ahead of power, too).

@Gypsy wrote:

I think when Regina killed her own father – the only person who seemed to love her unconditionally – is when she crossed the ‘point of no return’.
You can’t come back from that.

Maybe in real life, but this is a show about hope, and so I think the writers do ultimately have a path of redemption for Regina. It’s just going to be a long a bumpy ride (makes for better entertainment).

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[laurieanne]

@PriceofMagic wrote:

I can see why WickedRegal would think Henry is selfish, it’s not too bad in season 1 but this season it has been very pronounced. Henry has a very rigid view of right and wrong, he can’t seem to understand there are shades inbetween. Henry is sending very mixed messages to Regina, he refers to her as his mom yet he doesn’t treat her like it. Sometimes when Regina is planning to do something, Henry uses himself as a bargaining tool to make her stop but then just turns his back on her. It’s almost like teasing, Henry offers Regina what she wants so that she does what he wants then he just turns away from her. I feel sorry for Regina in those situations because Lana Parilla does an excellent kicked puppy face especially at the end of Queen of Hearts.

I disliked Henry in Welcome to Storybrooke. I know he’s a kid but his idea to blow up magic using dynamite was just plain stupid. His demands to be told the truth are petulant especially as some of the stuff that happens isn’t really suitable for a child to hear. Henry likes to think he’s grown up but he’s not, and that is going to land him in trouble. Henry thinks he knows best, instead of the adults, but his knowing best involves dynamite which could have killed him.

Henry can be very manipulative with his affections. Throughout season 1, Emma was the best thing since sliced bread for Henry. She could do no wrong and Regina couldn’t do right. Then when Emma fell off her pedestal which Henry put her on in Manhattan, suddenly Neal was the best thing in the world for Henry. This time Neal could do no wrong and Emma couldn’t do right. Henry even tried to cosy up to Rumple until Rumple shot him down. As an 11 year old, Henry must have some awareness of how his behaviour affects Regina and Emma. Granted he’s no master manipulator like Rumple, but he had to know that comparing Emma to Regina would upset Emma and that refusing to see Regina would upset Regina.

In fact the Emma and Regina feud could probably be simmered down if Henry decided to spend a couple of hours a day with Regina. For example, he could go over to Regina’s for lunch on the weekend. Maybe Regina could pick Henry up from school on occasion during the week. It doesn’t have to be an all or nothing situation over Henry for Emma and Regina. True Regina will want more time with Henry but she and Emma can work that out. For example, if Emma decided Henry can spend the nights at Regina’s on weekends only, it gives Regina something to aim for and to look forward to. Sometimes people need a little motivation in order to help them achieve something. Regina thought redemption meant being nice and getting Henry back. It didn’t work so now she’s back on the evil bandwagon. What Regina should have been thinking is that by redeeming herself, she’s making up for all the evil things, and as a result she’ll be able to spend more time with Henry.

Clarification: What I was responding to was the comment that he should have died from the poison because he was selfish. That situation occurred at the end of Season 1. I agree that Henry has been selfish in Season 2 and also needs to have someone reprimand him a little (In other words, act like a parent) to keep him from being a bratty teenager (Please God, should the series last that long!). I think many of his comments to Emma were uncalled for. I think part of the problem is that none of the people in his life are thinking like parents. They are trying to put out fires as fast as they can. The scene I am looking for (not only with Henry but with most of the characters) is where they just get to breathe and be a family. Maybe deal with some of this. But I can see how that scene may be a little out of place when there are people dying, people trying to get power (too numerous to mention), and way more pressing business to take care of. And now it would be like “Remember back in Manhattan when you talked back to me?” It would seem out of place now. I would like to see someone sit down with Henry and say, “Kid, we’ve been through a lot this year. Well, this is where we are now.” Maybe discuss WHY you can’t just blow up magic.

[PriceofMagic]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

If you re-watch 2×2, you’ll see that the day Regina pushed Cora through the looking glass was the day before Regina’s wedding.

I thought it was Regina’s wedding day that she pushed Cora through because Regina was wearing her wedding dress.

@LaurieAnne wrote:

Clarification: What I was responding to was the comment that he should have died from the poison because he was selfish. That situation occurred at the end of Season 1. I agree that Henry has been selfish in Season 2 and also needs to have someone reprimand him a little (In other words, act like a parent) to keep him from being a bratty teenager (Please God, should the series last that long!). I think many of his comments to Emma were uncalled for. I think part of the problem is that none of the people in his life are thinking like parents. They are trying to put out fires as fast as they can. The scene I am looking for (not only with Henry but with most of the characters) is where they just get to breathe and be a family. Maybe deal with some of this. But I can see how that scene may be a little out of place when there are people dying, people trying to get power (too numerous to mention), and way more pressing business to take care of. And now it would be like “Remember back in Manhattan when you talked back to me?” It would seem out of place now. I would like to see someone sit down with Henry and say, “Kid, we’ve been through a lot this year. Well, this is where we are now.” Maybe discuss WHY you can’t just blow up magic.

I think disciplining Henry will be something that unites Emma and Bae. If Emma disciplines him, Henry’s going to run to Bae, if Bae disciplines him, Henry’s going to run to Emma. He may also play them off against one another depending on if they’ve had an argument. At the end of the day, Emma and Bae are going to realise that they have to show a united front otherwise Henry’s going to have problems when he’s older.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[WickedRegal]

Come on guys, can you cut Regina some slack, I’m so tired of hearing how she is wicked, and how people want her to stay the Evil Queen! Again I ask why, give me one logical reason why, you think she isn’t good enough to be redeemed? Regina has been through hell and back in her life, and I will admit she’s brought the whole Enchanted Forest with her, but when will her Happy Ending come, because Henry won’t be it, because he treats her like a dog. He gives his love when he wants her to help The Charmings, and leave her like trash afterwards, and that is very manipulative, and I’m glad some of you agree, he did inherit that from Regina bringing him up, and he needs to learn that sometimes power is how you get things, but he was showed love and affection by the same woman who he learned manipulation from. And some of that manipulation probably came from him being Rumple’s grandson, but all of you need to learn, the ONLY reason Emma, Charming, Snow, and Storybrooke aren’t dead, is because of little Henry, and the same could be said vice versa when Regina didn’t have her magic. But I guarantee, if there was no Henry, Regina would have been killed Snow and Charming, and there are other ways to kill The Saviour than ripping out hearts, and Regina has shown that. Plus, Snow is not innocent, she tricked Regina into killing her mother, out of all the hearts in Regina’s vault, she used Cora’s to kill Rumple, Cora could have been a real mother for Regina, but Snow took that. Sounds like to me that’s saying “If i can’t have my mother, you can’t have yours.” And yes, Regina did kill Leopold, and I will repeat this for Gypsy and Slurpez, it was to break Cora’s curse. Regina was trapped in the castle by the Tree spell, she couldn’t go anywhere for like 12 years, stuck in that castle in a loveless marriage, being a mother to a girl who betrayed your trust. So she had to do what she had to do, in the words of your dear and “always good, does no wrong” Rumple: “Desperate times, calls for desperate measures.”

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

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