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Exactly PoM! Perfect solution.
I’m hoping they come up with a nickname FAST, because truly, that was a bad choice. The slow speed with which this series moves, he will remain a very small child even if they stay on air a few more seasons.
And really, (beating a dead horse, blah blah blah, )…Neal as a Saint is just not a very embraceable theory. Saddling a fresh young infant with a name that is not all that heroic and has a mack truck full of baggage when there were so many other acceptable choices, was a lazy decision. *Baby* Neal should have his own unique identity.
LOVELY visuals surraya!!! 🙂
Thank-you from my eye candy soul.
[adrotate group="5"]***Always in search of a good flock***
Hahaha I literally snorted at work when I read that ‘breastfeeding Neal’ line, @Obisgirl!!! And the mental image of MRJ in a big ol’ diaper that accompanied it was just wrong!
I’m guessing Baby Neal will get a nickname sooner than later…I still think giving him that name was the writers attempting to pay homage to Neal fans…who in some of their louder representatives’ typical grace crapped all over it.
I must agree 100% with Screwball Ninja’s assessment. I do think MRJ wanted off the show and with good reason…they had absolutely no idea what to do with the character once they landed the actor (*cough* like Emilie *cough*). Neal came off as a jumbled mess…were we supposed to be angry at his part in Emma going to jail? Or were we supposed to lean too mich on Bae’s backstory to sympathize? Was he still in love with Emma and deluding himself with Tamara or did he actually love Tamara? I still have no idea!
Neal, as defined by the actual writers and not as seen by the delusion eyes of the impossible to please, Saint Neal SF fans, was a luke warm mess. No character on the show escapes the *mess* syndrome. But Neal was more of a mess than most. Poorly blended with the personality of the dark, deeply emotional, brooding Bae, he was this rather dullard surfer dude. WFH did that have to do with BAE? He was inoffensively likeable and sometimes fun enough, but I never saw Bae in him at all. Almost all his lines, even the important ones, were delivered as if *duh* would be the last word. And his connections to Emma outside her teenaged self, were often shallow.
Nobody on the creative staff seemed to have any idea of what to think or do with Neal, including MRJ.
MRJ definitely had a certain easy charm, but it just never fit with the other storied personalities. He was not cut from the same stylistic stripe as the other actors, either. He quite often didn’t wear the words of the scripts comfortably. I, too, imagine he wanted out of such a mismatch and be free to go on to other things more in tune with his style. I am also sure he got along famously with the other actors in real life and was sad to leave that camaraderie.
And you are right Jenna_B, the crappable behavior of certain Neal fanatics about the naming of the baby proved that they were not interested in Neal’s actual honoring, they just wanted to be outraged. It didn’t matter what the writers did or said after his character died. Only the outrage was important. I still don’t feel his more vocal fans even give a genuine hoot about Emma in the equation. Or even Henry. Those two are just used as good excuses for the personal *happy ending* projection of many.
Flashbacks with Bae would be intriguing, especially if Henry gets a chance to plummet back to EF. Highly unlikely. though, as both the actors are maturing too fast.
I’m hoping all the main characters get their earned due with the massive Elsa attention. A&E are entertaining, chaotic, ADHD jugglers, if nothing else!
***Always in search of a good flock***
Thanks for linking that Screwball Ninja essay/meta @POM, was very interesting.
While I personally dont see Neal’s last actions in anyway to be heroic (well maybe aside from doing the right thing in righting his ‘wrong’ & choosing to die, rather then inhabit Rumple ala Voldemort), I do agree with much of SBN’s assessment of why fans didnt really warm up to him. I also wonder if A&E didnt just dig themselves a giant hole by having Neal’s betrayal, thoroughly cementing Emma’s complete emotional damage- all we heard for an entire season was how much of a poop hole Neal was, how badly he hurt Emma & that he was Not someone Henry should know, be around, much less know about/of.
So it wasnt just what we ‘saw’ in S2 & S3A that put fans off of Neal IMO, it was already well established in S1- his actions in S2 just confirmed he wasnt that great of a person, nor worthy of being with Emma (by that I mean his abandonment of her, his not turning up to find her when he got the post card & then a major one- his ‘engagement’) & by mid S3A I think A&E finally realised Neal wasnt working/going to work-out story wise & so gave him up- personally I think they should have just let Neal die in S2 the 1st time around, but then I guess we wouldnt have had the whole Rumple/Bae resolution arc.
Other than that I agree with everyone on their points, so wont rehash them again here 🙂We may never know for sure what happened, although I suspect that Adam and Eddy decided early on that there wasn’t much to do with Neal and he obviously wasn’t going to end up with Emma and decided that the best way to take care of his character was to kill and hopefully, redeem him at the same time.
I remember there were moments throughout this season before Neal died, where he was in a scene but barely there, you know what I mean? I think even Serena on the Captain Swan podcast made a comment about that.
He was background for most of the season and there were a handful of moments where SwanFire were overshadowed by Captain Swan.
So, I would totally understand if Michael wanted off the show because they really didn’t do anything with his character.
It’s late here and I should really get to bed.
I agree. Once the Rumple/Bae reunion happened in Save Henry, there wasn’t much left for Neal to do other than just hang around in scenes. Bae’s main story was tied to Rumple, that was the story we had with him in season 1, SwanFire came second. Plus A&E even considered changing the fact that Bae was Henry’s father since fans had worked it out long before the reveal which to me suggests that Bae being Henry’s father wasn’t necessarily the most important part of him. A&E just liked the idea too much to change it.
It’s a shame Tamara wasn’t genuine with Neal because then that could’ve been a way for them to conveniently keep Neal out of the way but at least have him around to appear from time to time or have Henry spend time with Neal whenever Henry has to be babysat.
They needed Neal for Neverland but after that and the Rumple/Bae reunion, there was no real purpose to Neal. I wonder how early into season 3, it was decided to kill Neal off because his story was wrapped up neatly, Rumple/Bae reunited and Emma/Neal made up and moved on. It is a bit telling that Neal went from “I’ll fight for you” in Neverland to “I want you to be happy, even if it’s with someone else” in 3B in the one episode where he actually played a meaningful part. Neal’s presence in 3B apart from Quiet Minds was basically one scene per episode.
I guess they had to kill Neal off because if MRJ did want out, meaning Neal wouldn’t be around at all, it wouldn’t be true to the character of Baelfire for him to just up and leave his son when he gave Rumple such a hard time for abandoning him.
I think half of the issues with Neal’s death come from the fact that there was the fakeout death in season 2 only for them to kill him off for real in season 3. It kind of went “He’s dead……..Not really!…….Nah he’s really dead now”. It kind of played with people’s emotions, it gave them false hope only to take it away again.
I agree that there is a big disconnect between the character of Baelfire and Neal. We saw Baelfire sacrificing himself to the shadow so that it wouldn’t take Michael yet we then see Neal using little Roland as bait for the shadow. The two acts contradict each other. Baelfire was all “magic comes with a price, I don’t want anything to do with it and you shouldn’t either” yet Neal was all “To hell with the cost” Again the two actions contradict each other. Neal got lucky with Rolandgate and that’s only because Mulan was there to help protect Roland. If the plan had failed and Roland had been taken by the shadow, Neal probably wouldn’t have even survived to Neverland because Robin would’ve killed him.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI agree. Once the Rumple/Bae reunion happened in Save Henry, there wasn’t much left for Neal to do other than just hang around in scenes. Bae’s main story was tied to Rumple, that was the story we had with him in season 1, SwanFire came second. Plus A&E even considered changing the fact that Bae was Henry’s father since fans had worked it out long before the reveal which to me suggests that Bae being Henry’s father wasn’t necessarily the most important part of him. A&E just liked the idea too much to change it.
It’s a shame Tamara wasn’t genuine with Neal because then that could’ve been a way for them to conveniently keep Neal out of the way but at least have him around to appear from time to time or have Henry spend time with Neal whenever Henry has to be babysat.
They needed Neal for Neverland but after that and the Rumple/Bae reunion, there was no real purpose to Neal. I wonder how early into season 3, it was decided to kill Neal off because his story was wrapped up neatly, Rumple/Bae reunited and Emma/Neal made up and moved on. It is a bit telling that Neal went from “I’ll fight for you” in Neverland to “I want you to be happy, even if it’s with someone else” in 3B in the one episode where he actually played a meaningful part. Neal’s presence in 3B apart from Quiet Minds was basically one scene per episode.
I guess they had to kill Neal off because if MRJ did want out, meaning Neal wouldn’t be around at all, it wouldn’t be true to the character of Baelfire for him to just up and leave his son when he gave Rumple such a hard time for abandoning him.
I think half of the issues with Neal’s death come from the fact that there was the fakeout death in season 2 only for them to kill him off for real in season 3. It kind of went “He’s dead……..Not really!…….Nah he’s really dead now”. It kind of played with people’s emotions, it gave them false hope only to take it away again.
I agree that there is a big disconnect between the character of Baelfire and Neal. We saw Baelfire sacrificing himself to the shadow so that it wouldn’t take Michael yet we then see Neal using little Roland as bait for the shadow. The two acts contradict each other. Baelfire was all “magic comes with a price, I don’t want anything to do with it and you shouldn’t either” yet Neal was all “To hell with the cost” Again the two actions contradict each other. Neal got lucky with Rolandgate and that’s only because Mulan was there to help protect Roland. If the plan had failed and Roland had been taken by the shadow, Neal probably wouldn’t have even survived to Neverland because Robin would’ve killed him.
Agreed.
I think half of the issues with Neal’s death come from the fact that there was the fakeout death in season 2 only for them to kill him off for real in season 3. It kind of went “He’s dead……..Not really!…….Nah he’s really dead now”. It kind of played with people’s emotions, it gave them false hope only to take it away again.
I don’t know how many of you are familiar with the drama Heroes, but there was a character on there, Nathan Petrelli. He was Heroes version of Kenny from South Park, where basically, the creator would kill him every season and then find a way to bring him back. Poor guy died every season until the very last season where he died for real.
So between watching a character being put into jeopardy like that and what we got with Neal’s character, I’d take what we got with Neal’s character because there’s less of an emotional roller coaster in the long run.
Trust me, one too many fake out deaths coming from one character will tire on the viewer. It’ll get old.
I agree that there is a big disconnect between the character of Baelfire and Neal.
Oh, I totally agree. Neal’s always been “all magic comes with a price” and yet, he did not even consider what that price was when he freed Rumple. He also seemed to be callous in his actions. I understand desperation too – he did not Henry to grow up the same way he did but seriously, if Mulan had not been there, little Roland would be a goner. And no matter what you ‘ship or your fandom politics, we all pretty much agree that Roland is the cutest little thing ever.
And Adam and Eddy would surely feel our unified wrath if something bad happened to the hobbit.
Killian the Meercat opened an online store for her Captain Swan stuff
http://killian-the-meerkat.tumblr.com/post/92661692291/killian-the-meerkat-redbubble-art-gallery
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