The two sides of Rumplestiltskin and the Balance of Power

[ciela_crow]

Thats alot to think about 🙂 I completey agree.

And thinking a bit deeper, Rumplestiltskin probably wouldnt kill the baby. So now i’m just have to gonna wait to find out what happened. Because SOMETHING happened in their past. Do you think they’ll tell us before the end of the season?

[mia]

There’s speculation we’ll find out in episode 18&19 … We’ll have to wait and see.

[weedith]

Great topic! I agree that the various facets of R/G’s character are most intriguing. So here’s my two cents (and worth just about that!)………

You may be over-thinking the Rumpel/Belle breakup, so to speak. Think about any time you have been in love, or thought you were in love, or wanted somebody to be in love with you. The prospect is kind of terrifying in one way, because to love somebody is to make yourself vulnerable. Often the more bad experiences you have, the less willing you are to take that risk again. We know that Rumpel’s wife left him because he was deemed a coward (although running away from ogres just sounds like good sense to me…..but that’s for another thread). We know he lost his son, somehow, presumably as a result of becoming the dark one, or in any case, something that Rumpel himself did.

We also know that Rumpel is pretty much a total social outcast, feared and hated by society, and approached only when they want something from him. Cinderella makes a comment about previous efforts to imprison him, making it sound like there has been an ongoing effort to lock him up or strip him of his power. One thing I heard, and I will put a spoiler tag on it because it was other than canon —- I think this was tweeted by the writer of “Skin Deep” with regard to Rumpel’s history: Hundreds of years have passed from the time Rumpel became the dark one to the time he meets Belle. The ogre war they refer to is not the same war that Bae was being recruited for. So Rumpel has had a long time to be alone and get a little emotionally warped.

Soooooo….. Rumpel is clearly perpexed by Belle’s treatment of him, that she treats him like a person and not a monster, so he lets his guard down around her. He lets her go, telling her that he fully expects she will never come back, but as we see, secretly hoping she will come back to him. So his heart is pretty much laid wide open when she kisses him, and he kisses her back. So then what does she say? “I love you”? “You are my soulmate”? “Carry me to your chamber and….” well you get the idea. No. She says, “It’s working.” 😯 Seriously? It’s working? No wonder Rumpel assumed (correctly) that she had an agenda. That she kissed him not because she cared about him or was attracted to him or wanted to be close to him. But that she was trying to accomplish something.

Then when Belle mentions “she,” Rumpel’s thought immediately goes to the Queen, with whom he is evidently feuding. (Lots more to learn about that relationship!) That he assumes Belle’s motives are somehow to hurt him I think is a result of his history, of never really having been loved.

Okay, that was longer than I intended it. More to say about his post-banishment regrets, but I’ll come back to that later. One last thought on his bad reaction is that we can never forget the Dark Curse itself. Belle says that “evil has taken root in him,” and we see the change in Rumpel even immediately after he is cursed. I see it a little like the One Ring. No matter how you intend to use the power, it will consume you and corrupt you.

[rumplegoldfankristi]

Weedith, totally agree with you but I think you worded it better than I did and I came at it from another angle. I think EQ screwed it up with Belle with the whole “It’s working” comment because I don’t think Belle would have even cared until the EQ put the thought in her head that Rumple could become an ordinary man again. I think while she was still at his castle Belle was trying to get Rumple to see that he WAS a normal man STILL – even though technically it was a long time since he was physically a normal man. I don’t think she really cared about what he looked like (My God – I’ll take him as Rumple, but that’s a topic for another day . . .) because she could see through the “layers” to the “man” he was deep down inside. I think she would have eventually gone back to him anyway – the EQ screwed everything up by telling her she could break the curse. Her comment “It’s working” did make Rumple feel like Belle thought there was something wrong with him which just fed his insecurities. I think eventually they would have kissed on their own and then the curse would have been broken and they both would have been surprised by it – and Rumple wouldn’t have to have wondered if Belle had an agenda or if she only wanted him if he looked different.

[weedith]

I agree that Belle’s feelings for Rumpel were sincere and not based on any desire to break a curse or be a saviour. She saw past his exterior to the man inside, and liked what she saw. BTW, it seemed to me that the makeup was somewhat different in this episode, less emphasis on the creeptacular. Of course they softened up the wardrobe, getting rid of the coat (which I noticed he was wearing even while spinning in the last scene where the queen came to visit). Maybe it was just putting him in full light instead of shadow, where you could really pick up facial expressions, which were also more human and less crazy face. All made it easier to see him as just a man.

We have strayed from the original topic of this thread, the whole good-guy vs. bad-guy question. As for that, I think we will be parsing that question the whole time. I have heard the writers say that they don’t like 2-dimensional evil villains. Instead, even if somebody is in a villain role, we will at least know WHY they act the way they do, see a side of humanity to them. With EQ, whatever her motives, her goal always seems to be to make people suffer. Heck, she stated that clearly. With Rumpel, not only are his motives a little more murky, his goals are as well. I don’t see him emerging as a great hero and saving the whole town just because he’s a nice guy. I can see him being heroic to save Belle or his son, or possibly even Henry, who I see as a sort of surrogate in Gold’s mind.

[riddleraven]

Ditto. Holy crap. I love this thread! 😀 Just a few more tidbits…

he was not a good guy willing to let Moe French sell his Valentine’s flowers to pay him, in fact, he was quite cruel to the man.

So? xD When I first watched that episode I thought “Ok, here’s the writers trying to show us that he’s such a badie, acting like a loan shark.” But he’s a terrible loan shark! xP Business-wise it doesn’t make sense to take the truck and flowers on the busiest day of the year because then Moe really can’t pay him back. So it wasn’t about the money. It wasn’t about collecting on his loan. It was revenge. And we all get why it was personal. He thought Moe killed Belle, his own daughter! You would hate Moe too. But Moe basically has amnesia and so does everyone else so Gold can’t go off on him for no public reason. So he contented himself with taking the truck.

It was cruel, but also understandable. I don’t think that makes him so bad. Especially, since the only reason Gold later beat up Moe is because of the cup. And that is really understandable too. Because having your lover’s murder steal the only memento you have left of her is honestly TOO MUCH. It’s not at ALL surprising that he snapped since 1) he is unscrupulous and has a dark side and 2) he ALREADY hated the guy, with good reason.

It was terrible to watch him beat Moe up though. Especially because I don’t think Moe ever estranged his daughter and he obviously didn’t kill her and because he only took the cup because of Regina. So Rumpel was not actually in the right. He just thought he was. Does it it make him a bad guy? I don’t know. I would be more inclined to call him a “bad guy” if he actually was just a loan shark. Beating someone up because they can’t pay up or because they stole from you is a lot different than taking revenge on them for killing someone you were both supposed to love.

[weedith]

I totally got a pot-kettle vibe when Gold was raging at Moe and said “You had her love and you shut her out.”. It seemed like he was trying to convince himself that “It wasn’t my fault.” definitely a lot of unresolved guilt feelings there (nurtured along by Her Majesty of course).

I do wonder why Rumpel didn’t do any fact-checking in FTL. He called EQ out as a liar when she first told him but, what, then he never confirmed anything? Seems like he should have paid Belle’s father a visit back in FTL when he would have actually understood why he was being caned.

[pjlshinypenny]

I agree with everything you all said but I also see him as the nerd that everyone pick on growing up then he became the CEO of a company and could pay a little of that bully back. I don’t think he is crazy but he acts that way to keep anyone from get to close because they might see the kid that everyone pick on underneath. This for Rumple side of him. Mr. Gold side, I see him as Scrooge before the spirits came to visit.

Now Regina and Mr. Gold relationship is very complicated. Which is the same for the EQ and Rumple. I believe he keeps getting in her way. He in away is a balance to her. He is able to get his hands dirty to keep her from taking over FTL because the heros have to be honest and fair. A perfect example of this is when Emma told everyone what Mr. Gold did when she was running for Sheriff. Every good guy needs to have that one person do the things that no else is willing to do.

In a way, Rumple got in her way again with telling Snow and Charming their daughter is the only one who can save them. Which put them in action to try to stop EQ, which lead to the cabinet being built and Emma being sent in the real world instead of SB. He foiled her plans again by bring Henry to SB which leads to Emma coming there too. I also believe that he was the one who gave MM the book and then Henry getting it. Regina also has to give anything he wants if he says “please”. The only thing she has over him is Belle. I really don’t know how powerful that really is because right now he still won’t give up the power and how do we not know he doesn’t know about Belle being in the hospital psyc ward, that could be the favor he ask for from Emma is to get her out when the time comes. It is just what I have floating around in my head but I probable have it all wrong.

[rumplegoldfankristi]

Yeah, I haven’t figured out how come he didn’t go check out whether Belle was really dead either. I read on another board somewhere that somewhere that someone thinks EQ conjured up a spell while she was talking to Rumple in his castle before she started to tell him her “story” about what happened to Belle after he kicked her out of his castle. Because if you look at the video she is doing something with her hands over the tea set while he is spinning at the wheel and it is more than just pouring herself a cup of tea. I’ll admit it does look like she is doing some extreme tea preparation but I don’t know if I am convinced she is doing a spell. Rumple doesn’t drink the tea but he does stand somewhere around the spot where she would have been doing the “spell” so I wondered if the spell made him “believe” what she said so that he wouldn’t even bother checking out whether Belle was actually dead. That’s the piece of the Belle puzzle that has always greatly bothered be – knowing how Rumple knows that the EQ is always trying to trick him out of his power you would think he would immediately think she was lying about Belle just to hurt him. I don’t understand why he wouldn’t check to make sure it’s true.

Unless he DID know that she was really alive?? When he was beating Moe French he said “She’s gone, she’s gone, and she’s never coming back.” He never said “She’s dead.” Maybe he realized that Belle was his one weakness to voluntarily giving up his power because he loved her so much? Maybe he knew he couldn’t ASK the EQ to let Belle go because that would mean he was lowering himself to her? So maybe he still blames himself for Belle being locked up by the EQ because he didn’t do anything about it because he cared more about his power than going to the EQ and asking for her to let Belle go because he knew that Belle would be his downfall? That would still cause him to keep the cup as a momento and he did put the cup on a pedestal, just like he put Belle on a pedestal. Oh my, this could take an entirely different turn if he DID really know that Belle was alive but that the EQ had her but didn’t do anything about it. But maybe he assumes that Belle isn’t in Storybrooke now and that the only thing he has left of her now IS the cup. If that is the case, if he finds out that Belle is alive – oh my. Instead of HIM going crazy on Regina – suddenly that changes things and now Regina is the one with the power. Because both he and Regina may know that he would give up his power for Belle. Only the interesting twist in Storybrooke is that his power is really the knowledge he has – so he could technically be with Belle and STILL have power??

[mia]

Wow, I can totally see your mind racing. 😆
I like both ideas, him either knowing or not. Mr. Gold beating up Moe French would seem strange if he had known that Moe hadn’t anything to do with it. He could’ve just used him as a stress ball so to speak, but there are always other ways.

What really bothers me with the whole Moe thing, is that it took him so long to do it? The time started flowing months ago and yet he goes against Moe in that moment?? The storytellers should’ve built up something. Seems rather random. =/

[Author]

Posts