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I think we should be critical of yet more white women being cast in this show, anyway. It’s gotten crazy at this point – OUAT had a race problem going into this season and did nothing but add more white characters, with the exception of Ursula who got written off after 4 episodes. It’s crazy.
The truth is when it comes to racism is that it’s white people, and the wider institution they represent that are “stuck on race”. It’s very victim blamey to throw the buck back at other PoC or people advocating for this case and not those who continually undercast PoC in everything. Focusing on race when there is a race problem is a good thing. Problems don’t get better by not talking about them.
As I posted in the other Lily thread, is it not racism and exclusion to say to a white woman “You can’t have this role because you’re white”?
Discrimination is a two way street.
@Crystal Princess i totally respect your opinion and your right to voice it, as i hope you respect mine to express and view a different aspect. I also see that OUAT/OUATW has broken barriers as to typical princesses, heroes and who plays them offerring more that other shows the opportunity for POC, cultural & ethnic backgrounds to play roles they usually do not protray (i.e. Ursula, Rapunzel, Lancelot, Poseidon, etc.). Neither you nor I are the casting directors, producers, writers, etc. and therefore, we cannot fully judge why this or that actor was ultimately given a role; to flatly assume it was racial based I believe is unfair. It is quite possible that the decision was made because they wanted adult Lily to more closely resemble Mal, while young Lily could have been played by a more wide net of actors. I truly don’t believe “race” was a factor nor that they are “whitewashing” the character. Let’s just agree to disagree
Well said.
[adrotate group="5"]All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixAs for why they cast a latina as young Lily in the first place, they probably wanted a dark haired girl to parallel Regina during “Breaking Glass”, rather than casting her because Nicole Munoz is latina. But it doesn’t make sense when Maleficent is clearly not latina. Nicole Munoz appears to be a white latina, so the race thing might not have been accounted for when casting the adult Lily. I could buy Agnes Bruckner playing Maleficent’s daughter, but it’s harder to swallow that Nicole Munoz grew up to look like Agnes Bruckner. In the end, it was probably an oversight rather than blatant whitewashing. Doesn’t excuse it by any means, but sigh.
I agree.
As for why they cast a latina as young Lily in the first place, they probably wanted a dark haired girl to parallel Regina during “Breaking Glass”, rather than casting her because Nicole Munoz is latina
My opinion is that they wanted to cast someone who was a foil for young Emma. But then had to cast someone they thought could carry the role of adult Lily.
It seems like more of a case of poor planning than white-washing.
is it not racism and exclusion to say to a white woman “You can’t have this role because you’re white”?
*poofs in* But that is not the same thing that is being talked about. No one is saying that Agnes shouldn’t get the role because she’s white. We are saying the role should have went to a latina because the younger version of the role had already been filled by a latina. Had Young Lily been played by a white actress, no one would be having this discussion about Older Lily being played by a white actress. But she wasn’t.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC@TheWatcher got it. That is the issue here.
is it not racism and exclusion to say to a white woman “You can’t have this role because you’re white”?
*poofs in* But that is not the same thing that is being talked about. No one is saying that Agnes shouldn’t get the role because she’s white. We are saying the role should have went to a latina because the younger version of the role had already been filled by a latina. Had Young Lily been played by a white actress, no one would be having this discussion about Older Lily being played by a white actress. But she wasn’t.
I get what your saying. Was the older Lily role open to audition or did they just offer it to Agnes straightaway? Agnes looks like a young Mal so I can see why they would want her for Mal’s daughter.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI get what your saying. Was the older Lily role open to audition or did they just offer it to Agnes straightaway? Agnes looks like a young Mal so I can see why they would want her for Mal’s daughter.
But that doesn’t change what Matt is saying which is that she isn’t the same race/look like young! Lily which is a massive oversight at the least and blatently racist on the extreme. I’ve said this before…if they had cast a very light skined African American for Lily and then cast Agnes and had her put on some very light “black face” makeup….would be be having this conversation?
Do I think it’s intentional racism? No. Do I think it’s unintentional because they didn’t think this one through? Yes. Up to you to decide if that’s better or worse. I’ve been pretty vocal about my intense displeasure for what they did, even though I’m sure Agnes is going to do great work, just as Nicole did for Young! Lily.
In other news, this is, course, a hot button issue and I want to just ask up front (no warning, no MOD bolded words here, guys) that we just keep it polite and respectful as it has been. This is an ongoing topic and one that has been hit pretty heavy since the news broke.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Nicole seems white with a slightly darker skin tone (kind of like Lana – which is what they were going for at that time since Lily was supposed to be a “basically young Regina”).
Saying Lily was supposed to be “basically young Regina” doesn’t help your case since Lana Parrilla is a biracial Latina and the show purposely cast the actors playing Henry Sr. as Latino because of Parrilla’s Latina heritage, canonizing Regina as a biracial character.
But it doesn’t make sense when Maleficent is clearly not latina.
Sure it does if Lily’s father is Latino (or whatever FTL’s POC equivalent is, since certain terms like Latin@/Asian/African-American/etc wouldn’t be the same there). I don’t understand why they had to whitewash Munoz’s character instead of just doing the same thing they did for Parrilla’s character and let a Latina actress play her as an adult just as the original version of the character was played as.
As for why they cast a latina as young Lily in the first place, they probably wanted a dark haired girl to parallel Regina during “Breaking Glass”, rather than casting her because Nicole Munoz is latina
My opinion is that they wanted to cast someone who was a foil for young Emma. But then had to cast someone they thought could carry the role of adult Lily. It seems like more of a case of poor planning than white-washing.
I agree, this is probably likely the case. Also, story wise, Breaking Glass was set very early in the season when the story for 4B probably was not fully mapped out yet.
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I agree, this is probably likely the case. Also, story wise, Breaking Glass was set very early in the season when the story for 4B probably was not fully mapped out yet.
I know a lot may not agree, but I fully believe A&E always intended us to see Adult Lily at some point. Everything about the episode and the way she was introduced says she was important,the scar on her wrist being the biggest clue. I dont think its poor planning at all. Lily was never intended to be a one-off character, and I think in some interviews they may have said we “might” see her again in the future and here we are now. The only thing we are asking is that a&e be consistent. They casted a young Latina to play her, they should gave casted a Latina adult actress. I’m pretty sure there is no shortage.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC
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