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While this certainly isn’t a shining moment for OUAT’s diversity claims, I think the problem is less in this one casting choice (I for one do think the actresses bear a similar appearance, and I can see a similarity to Maleficent too), and more in the overall lack of diversity and the treatment of characters who do bring diversity to the cast. There would be complaints about this, certainly, but they wouldn’t be nearly as loud or as damning if it weren’t for most of the other PoCs being very, very short-lived compared to whiter characters.
That is something that OUAT should deal with, ideally by bringing in a more diverse cast where it makes sense. This was yet another lost opportunity, but one among many.
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If you look at the spoiler photos, Lily’s daughter, or what one would assume is her daughter looks “hispanic”, (I use quotes because the actress or character could be of another ethnic origin.)
I am a nerd at heart.
I completely agree that OUAT can use more POC representation. However, that’s not the subject of this tread. The subject is the whitewashing of the character Lily.
I’m a government employee. Let me assure you, if I ever made the statement to a mother: “she can’t be your daughter because she looks Latina and you look Caucasian,” that I’d be disciplined, if not fired. It’s a racist comment and grounds for discrimination.
Stating that Nicole Munoz can’t play Kristen Bauer van Straten’s daughter because she looks too Latina is no different than the example I mentioned above.
The trouble with the internet is that we feel any subject is ok. I realize that no one means to be saying anything that can come off as being racist, however, the sad reality is that many of the comments made on this thread, as innocent as they may be, certainly are considered to be racist.
1) Assuming that Nicole Munoz is a POC is not ok. That’s racial profiling.
2) Saying that OUAT has whitewashed a character is accusing them of racism. Accusing them, without any background on the actor or facts, is irresponsible and slanderous.
3) Discussing Nicole Munoz’ genetic biology, as it relates to her ethnicity or a role that she is playing, is way out of bounds. If she identifies herself as Canadian what more do we need to know?
I’m not saying this to start an argument. I am merely pointing out that this thread is treading dangerous waters and people need to be aware of what legally defines racism.
I sincerely know that this was no one’s intention but I think we all need to take a step back and really look at what we are saying. It’s not good, Goose.
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I’ve said this before, but when we’re talking about diversity are we talking about ethnicity/race or skin colour? Lana is latina which should count as a POC but she’s white so does that then not count? The main cast is diverse in that you’ve got latina, Scottish, Australian, Irish, English and American but they’re all considered white.
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Keeper of FelixBless you, @TheGoldenKey for that entire post. And you too @priceofmagic 🙂
I think the real issue isn’t just limited to race, since the term Latino is considered an ethno-linguistic classification; rather, a legitimate critique is about a lack of overall diversity on the show, and how it fails to reflect the real diversity of America. Right now, Latin Americans are classified as a minority group in the US, comprising 17% of the total population. Nevertheless, according to key demographic projections, Hispanic Americans are the second fastest-growing ethnic group in the United States. According to the Pew Research Foundation, if current population trends continue, Latinos will comprise 29% of the total American population by 2050. If A&E were thinking about breaking barriers, they might realize that promoting a more ethnically and racially diverse cast might not be such a bad idea, and dare I say it, might actually be progressive, rather than being stuck 30 years in the past.
As TV critic Lily Sparks wrote about 4×19 Lily:
But of course, who is the first person Emma sees in the diner? A woman with Lily’s birthmark! It’s a good thing she had that birthmark because in the last 15 years she’d apparently changed ethnicities? Historically, OUAT has done an amazing job of physically matching child actors to the grown actors who play the same character. OUAT also has, famously, little to no racial diversity in its cast. The majority of people of color onscreen are peripheral characters that disappear after a few episodes. Lily, an original character whose arc is becoming increasingly important, was originated by the super-talented Nicole Munoz and I think we all assumed the wizards behind OUAT’s eerily on-point child-to-adult casting would figure out a great aged-up lookalike counterpart for her, ergo a Latina. And they didn’t, and that’s a huge missed opportunity for both the show and the thousands of Latina actresses in Hollywood who need parts like this.
Source: TV.com
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Even if they did cast a latina actress for adult Lily, wouldn’t there be complaints that yet another POC character is shoved off screen when the Mal/Lily storyline inevitably ends?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixEven if they did cast a latina actress for adult Lily, wouldn’t there be complaints that yet another POC character is shoved off screen when the Mal/Lily storyline inevitably ends?
Of course (unless Lily is set to play a bigger role in S5 as a Big Bad). But better a group of ethnically and racially diverse actors playing supporting roles than none at all. The lack of representation just stands out, especially when a younger Latina actress is replaced by a non-Latina.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Even if they did cast a latina actress for adult Lily, wouldn’t there be complaints that yet another POC character is shoved off screen when the Mal/Lily storyline inevitably ends?
You mean would this fandom find reasons to complain if a Latina Lily were kept around? Of course. If they kept Latina! Adult! Lily around, this fandom would complain that she was eating up the screen time of other regular characters who are too often silent or not seen for long stretches of time–Belle, Will, and Henry most notably. They’d complain if a Latina Lily left at the end of the Mal/Lily arc because yet another POC was easily disposed of after their story came to an abrupt end and the show turned back to the white cast of characters.
We’re a fandom that complains. We’ve always been a fandom that complains. We will continue to be a fandom that complains.
But sometimes, our complaining is actually justified and not the whining of people who want things the way they want it for reasons. Leave the Latina Lily issue aside. It is becoming increasingly clear that OUAT has a very real problem with representation, be it race, gender (hint: it’s not binary), and sexual orientation. I don’t think OUAT’s problems stem from A and E actually being racist, anti-different genders, or homosexual.
It stems from the fact that they grew up and are a part of a media landscape that is very resistant to change. White heterosexual people dealing with problems. That’s TV. You get a token black/other POC (because in TV land the difference is just between white and non-white as if the world is made up that way) character to make it “equal.” Nowadays it’s not so much the color of you skin that make you token, but sexual orientation. The lesbian best friend, the gay best friend or the gay/lesbian next door neighbor who is there to provide “a different way of seeing” but also the comic relief when the white heterosexuals find life baffling. TV thinks, “hey that works!” because it *did* work and TV is very resistant to change.
People look at Kerry Washington’s Olivia Pope on Scandal and are in *awe* that there’s a powerful black woman “handling” things. As if the real world doesn’t provide ample proof that there are actual powerful black women in this world who handle things–the mundane and big events–every day!
A and E are following the way it’s been done for years. Years and years. That doesn’t absolve them and their truly unequal show but this isn’t just an OUAT problem. It’s not just an A and E problem. It’s a media problem. It’s a world problem. And that’s why it matters.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"We’re a fandom that complains. We’ve always been a fandom that complains. We will continue to be a fandom that complains.
Yup. You nailed it, RG.
But sometimes, our complaining is actually justified and not the whining of people who want things the way they want it for reasons. Leave the Latina Lily issue aside. It is becoming increasingly clear that OUAT has a very real problem with representation, be it race, gender (hint: it’s not binary), and sexual orientation. I don’t think OUAT’s problems stem from A and E actually being racist, anti-different genders, or homosexual.
This has been the thing that bothers me the most of what I’ve seen. None of us know Adam and Eddy personally. Therefore, it’s not all right to call them names or accuse them of being a certain way. That is not fair to them and in all likelihood, not even true at all of their personal lives.
A and E are following the way it’s been done for years. Years and years…It’s not just an A and E problem. It’s a media problem. It’s a world problem. And that’s why it matters.
Yes!
But, adding PoC, LGBT characters or whatever to the show, also has to make sense within the story as well (as a whole or half-arc).
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