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DEAR STORYBROOKE/Once Fandom:
YOU MEAN I SINGLE HANDLEDLY RESPONSIBLE FOR REGINA’S ACTIONS?!?!
I HAVE CONTROL OVER THE SHOW!!
I AM LIKE GOD!! BOW TO ME YOU LESSER HUMANS. I SHALL NOW MAKE ALL MY WISHES FOR ONCE UPON A TIME COME TRUE SINCE I HAVE ALL THE POWERZZZZZZ
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"DEAR STORYBROOKE/Once Fandom:
YOU MEAN I SINGLE HANDLEDLY RESPONSIBLE FOR REGINA’S ACTIONS?!?! I HAVE CONTROL OVER THE SHOW!! I AM LIKE GOD!! BOW TO ME YOU LESSER HUMANS. I SHALL NOW MAKE ALL MY WISHES FOR ONCE UPON A TIME COME TRUE SINCE I HAVE ALL THE POWERZZZZZZ
Geez RG dear…did you catch the PS I left at the bottom? 😛
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I AM LIKE GOD!! BOW TO ME YOU LESSER HUMANS. I SHALL NOW MAKE ALL MY WISHES FOR ONCE UPON A TIME COME TRUE SINCE I HAVE ALL THE POWERZZZZZZ
lol RG Be Like:
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICWow…..Just…..Wow….Reading All The Recent Posts About Regina Has Me Like:
DEAR STORYBROOKE/Once Fandom:
Hmm, yes, lots of posts…here are two points from mine (plus a new one) that I think are some of the most important (and most concrete):
1. She said she was planning on “getting rid of a baby”, not just “getting” her or something. That absolutely means kill her. That doesn’t seem like much of a “soft spot for children”.
2. In the most recent episode, she just waltzes right on in to Sidney’s cell. She’d apparently forgotten about him, but instead of apologizing or admitting that she never did care about him, she encourages his unrequited affections and uses him for her own ends (despite his protests at being put back in the mirror). That all seems very “Evil Queen”.
3. You said she can’t regret any of the things she’s done before she got Henry because that would be like saying she regrets having gotten him at all (which I don’t agree with, but that’s not the point). But what about what she’s done since getting Henry? Why can’t/couldn’t she regret those things? She’s done some awful things since then too–how about gaslighting and alienating Henry and trying to murder people he loved? How about murdering Graham? How about conspiring to have Kathryn Nolan murdered (she thought) and framing Mary Margaret for her murder? Separating Hansel and Gretel for no reason, and sending them and Emma out of town knowing full well that the curse would hurt them if they tried that? Helping her mother almost get Rumple’s dagger so she’d become the Dark One? And that’s only a few things off the top of my head…Why doesn’t she regret any of that?! Even if she said she wanted to take any of those things back, she’d still have Henry. And in fact, he’d be a lot happier.
I just can’t see how one can be redeemed when one refuses to admit to having done terrible things and take responsibility for them, I suppose.
First of all redemption is subjective it will never mean the same thing for two people regardless.
Most of the terrible things Regina has done that Epona mentioned were committed during the first season of OUAT when Regina was the Evil Queen, since then it is undoubtable that she is ‘trying’ in some way to be a better person like when she was able to use light magic so in that sense is she all bad with no good at all in any way. During the season finale I thought great Marian is back and a whole new dynamic will be given to Regina’s character, but then over the hiatus as I thought about that finale episode all I was able to see from the writing and direction was the Evil Queen and that’s probably because of that specific scene. Coming back to OUAT now for 4×01 it looks to me from where I’m standing that the writers are focusing on the EQ part of Regina (hence again for story reasons) even so they barely mention the changes she has gone through. I guess what I’m trying to say is whether its right to show the bad part of Regina over the good or changing side of her when both these qualities are now intrinsically a part of her and who she is. Hope this all makes sense.
Some may say Rumple is further down the road to redemption even though he has been seen to follow his old ways every now and then but that’s fine since he is changing into a better person and with any sort of change its slow and gradual and there will be bumps along the road. Why can’t the same ‘allowance’ be given to Regina. Why is it that as soon as Regina slips up Oncers seem to forget the ‘good’ she has done and focus on the ‘bad’ meanwhile Rumple is given a different sort of reasoning that places him above her (talking in general terms). If your going to judge one character judge the others in the same way or else it will all be for nought.
Let us not forget the other main villain (of sorts) in this show Hook. The writers have shown a great deal of change and goodness in Regina and Rumple, in Hook it appears to me as if they have barely or partially shown any of this and have decided to fast forward his redemption and just hand him his happy ending on a golden plate. We have not really seen him go through the turmoil Regina and Rumple have experienced and it very much irritates me as it would be good to have an insight into that side of Hook’s character which I think has been skipped.
Keeper of a few things which I've forgotten but I know I have dibs on them
Let us not forget the other main villain (of sorts) in this show Hook. The writers have shown a great deal of change and goodness in Regina and Rumple, in Hook it appears to me as if they have barely or partially shown any of this and have decided to fast forward his redemption and just hand him his happy ending on a golden plate. We have not really seen him go through the turmoil Regina and Rumple have experienced and it very much irritates me as it would be good to have an insight into that side of Hook’s character which I think has been skipped.
True, and i think that the biggest weakness and that the reason why he is my least favorite character. With him being a pirate you have so much potential gone to complete waste. Since he could be has complex as Regina and Rumple, but in the end he not. The only time I was even excited with him was in season 2 and in episode of the Jolly Roger.
DEAR STORYBROOKE/Once Fandom:
YOU MEAN I SINGLE HANDLEDLY RESPONSIBLE FOR REGINA’S ACTIONS?!?! I HAVE CONTROL OVER THE SHOW!! I AM LIKE GOD!! BOW TO ME YOU LESSER HUMANS. I SHALL NOW MAKE ALL MY WISHES FOR ONCE UPON A TIME COME TRUE SINCE I HAVE ALL THE POWERZZZZZZ
O.O
WR I think you broke RumplesGirl.
Here’s something that I don’t believe has been brought up, but Rumple killing Zelena as vengeance for Neal is actually history repeating itself. After all, Rumple killed Tamara for thinking she killed Neal, too. The main difference is there was no lying to Belle involved. However, Rumple still killed a defenseless woman, and one who was already dying. But of course that will never be brought up because none of the characters mourn Tamara, nor do the writers clearly care to say anything more about her. Heck, fans actually cheered Rumple on once he did that due to Tamara being a very unpopular character. Neal never even found out, and he was the one engaged to her.
First of all redemption is subjective it will never mean the same thing for two people regardless. Most of the terrible things Regina has done that Epona mentioned were committed during the first season of OUAT when Regina was the Evil Queen, since then it is undoubtable that she is ‘trying’ in some way to be a better person like when she was able to use light magic so in that sense is she all bad with no good at all in any way. During the season finale I thought great Marian is back and a whole new dynamic will be given to Regina’s character, but then over the hiatus as I thought about that finale episode all I was able to see from the writing and direction was the Evil Queen and that’s probably because of that specific scene. Coming back to OUAT now for 4×01 it looks to me from where I’m standing that the writers are focusing on the EQ part of Regina (hence again for story reasons) even so they barely mention the changes she has gone through. I guess what I’m trying to say is whether its right to show the bad part of Regina over the good or changing side of her when both these qualities are now intrinsically a part of her and who she is. Hope this all makes sense. Some may say Rumple is further down the road to redemption even though he has been seen to follow his old ways every now and then but that’s fine since he is changing into a better person and with any sort of change its slow and gradual and there will be bumps along the road. Why can’t the same ‘allowance’ be given to Regina. Why is it that as soon as Regina slips up Oncers seem to forget the ‘good’ she has done and focus on the ‘bad’ meanwhile Rumple is given a different sort of reasoning that places him above her (talking in general terms). If your going to judge one character judge the others in the same way or else it will all be for nought. Let us not forget the other main villain (of sorts) in this show Hook. The writers have shown a great deal of change and goodness in Regina and Rumple, in Hook it appears to me as if they have barely or partially shown any of this and have decided to fast forward his redemption and just hand him his happy ending on a golden plate. We have not really seen him go through the turmoil Regina and Rumple have experienced and it very much irritates me as it would be good to have an insight into that side of Hook’s character which I think has been skipped.
I love this post….just….I love it!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Why is it that as soon as Regina slips up Oncers seem to forget the ‘good’ she has done and focus on the ‘bad’ meanwhile Rumple is given a different sort of reasoning that places him above her (talking in general terms). If your going to judge one character judge the others in the same way or else it will all be for nought.
My theory: People are more ready to forgive Rumple because of why and how he went down the road to dark power: to protect Bae. Although one could say, he did it as much so that other people would stop to humiliate him, Rumple, the bullied became the bully. He created the Dark Curse because it seemed to him the only (because visions of future, fate told him so) way to find and reunite with his son, who he had abandoned, the only way to correct the wrong he did to him. So at the root of Rumple’s evilness are good intentions. He kinda just got a bit out of hand with things, overdid it. The Dark One is a beast of his own, one can think of it as something, that has befallen the poor man, while deep, deep down he has a good heart. The moment Rumple became the Dark One it was not just him acting but that terrible demon as well. The evil is not Rumple, the evil and the villain is the Dark One. Rumple doesn’t need to be redeemed, only need to be freed of the demon, that possess him – no surprise that Rumple’s struggle is more compared with addiction than that of Regina. It’s kinda easy to feel pity with Rumple, even more so because he has the sweet and lovable Belle at his side, a very sympathetic character, one many would like to call a friend I think, speaking up for him.
Furthermore. Rumple is, I think, less shown to make innocent, sympathetic people suffer or let alone kill them. He did good and stopped the Ogre wars (whoever had to pay for that), the men of the duke were shown as bullies (wearing pretty much just black color assigned bad guys), Milah was a bad mother and wife, had abandoned Rumple and even more evil her son for some fancy bullying pirate. The carter Rumple turned into a snail and crushed, seemed to be arrogant and violent-tempered and yelled at Bae. Gaston was a bore and only turned into a rose (could have survived that, although Belle cut his feet, and he probably withered away), and Zelena terrorized everybody and had a hand in Neal’s death. We nearly have forgotten, that Rumple had killed their maid just for hearing about the dagger, it was never shown, only hinted at. One exception is maybe Robin, who was tortured by Rumple for whatever, it was quite a drastic punishment for attempted theft, he was about to kill him even, but in the end his good heart probably took over and he made the arrow, which couldn’t miss, miss the target. And Cinderella’s god fairy mother, but we had no chance to learn if she was more of the good kind or a rigid warden with ambiguous motives alike the Blue Fairy. Rumple didn’t do that much bad, did he, he was mostly desperate and otherwise possessed by the Dark One, so we can even pity Rumple.
Compare that to Regina. Regina started down the road to darkness to take vengeance, which might have been justifiable, but still is not as glory has righting your own wrongs. Instead of going after the person who actually killed her lover Daniel, she went for a scapegoat, who was manipulated by that very killer, by Cora – which changed the maybe understandable wish for justice into a blind and wrong crusade for revenge, which additionally seemed to include more jealousy (the spoiled brat does something stupid but gets away with it, she gets attention and love, everything laid down to her feet and doesn’t know to make good of it, doesn’t think of consequences…). Regina even had a chance, after she had sent her mother to another world, to leave and find happiness somewhere else, twice actually, but she didn’t do it. Instead of trying to tell Leo the truth she went with the lies of her mother and even killed him to get the power of ruling a kingdom herself, although some argue she freed that way herself as much from an abusive husband. She went after Snow and tried to kill her several times, she massacred a village in her quest for revenge, or if you prefer to affirm her rule over the kingdom, extorted or tricked children to get her something for her revenge (the apple from the blind witch), not minding they might get killed trying so, she enslaved Graham, she conspired to kill her own mother, she killed her own father. Regina sent her soldiers to go after an innocent child to stop it from being a possible threat to her plan of “happiness”. Not only is Regina shown doing terrible things, she is shown enjoying it, and she doesn’t have the excuse of being possessed by some demonic power.
At the beginning of season 2 some sometimes used addiction to magic as well as an explanation for Regina’s struggle to listen to her son Henry and stop doing bad things, but haven’t heard that for a while anymore. Instead Regina is seen as a person with emotional and maybe even mental problems, maybe caused by her abusive mother and the manipulations of Rumple, or she is sadly the daughter of a psychopath, and seeing that her mother and her half-sister had some problems themselves, it might unfortunately be a family thing, incurable as much as redemption wouldn’t apply. How did they phrase it just in the season premiere of Criminal Minds: “Genetics. Didn’t have much of a chance” (imagine me hurling a huge virtual wrecking ball through the screen and throwing a number of tables around, I can turn into a she-hulk hearing such simplifying nonsense). Yes, I know, the writers claim time and again, that evil isn’t born, but that is not quite what they show on the show, is it.
While Rumple became dark out of desperation, Regina became dark for vengeance. While Rumple was tricked into becoming the Dark One (at least some see it that way), Regina had, though manipulated by Rumple and Cora, choices. The reasons and degree of evilness of Regina and Rumple is different on the show and even more in the decoding or perception of the audience. So consequently expectations of what they have to do for redemption are different.
Let us not forget the other main villain (of sorts) in this show Hook. The writers have shown a great deal of change and goodness in Regina and Rumple, in Hook it appears to me as if they have barely or partially shown any of this and have decided to fast forward his redemption and just hand him his happy ending on a golden plate. We have not really seen him go through the turmoil Regina and Rumple have experienced and it very much irritates me as it would be good to have an insight into that side of Hook’s character which I think has been skipped.
I know of people saying pretty much the opposite, while Rumple and Regina are shown in a stale back and force between doing evil and doing something good in their opinion, Hook is the one who has shown remorse and is truly trying to change. Different readings of the same text.
It might play a role, that pirates have been quite romanticized thanks to Disney and others. Pirates of the Caribbean sure did some work to affirm that, and even a show like Black Sails, as graphic as it is, is still romanticizing. Pirates are rebels and as thus have a certain freedom to be rude and brutal, or should say maladjusted, pirate life is a rough life, a constant adrenalin kick. But they have a code, don’t they. And they attack the rich and powerful and their servants, or so is the romantic myth.
We see Hook bully Rumple, attack Aurora and Belle, Belle even twice, have a sword fight with Emma, didn’t seem to mind Emma and her team imprisoned and stranded in the Enchanted Forest, hardly intervened when Cora killed the people in Safe Have, let the Lost Boys have Bae, but whatever he does, he does it with seemingly charm and a grain of self-mockery or with a touch of defeat and sadness. And Hook got frequently beaten (remember the Hook-Floor ship?). He is either too charming or too much of a joke to be taken serious as villain for any long time. We don’t get to see any of what he did as pirate before he met Milah. We don’t know how brutal or still honorable and more presenting a show he was, that is wide open for interpretations. What we got to see was, that he didn’t mind the means to get his revenge though.
Like Regina Hook was driven by vengeance. He became a pirate because of feeling betrayed by the system he had believed in, the king, the navy, he lost his brother due to them, he had no loyalties to anyone but free life. Hook got obsessed with revenge when he lost the woman he loved, but a least he went after the person who had killed her, Rumple, and that as a bit of an underdog, because by then Rumple had already the mighty powers of the Dark One. I am not sure if Hook really is all done with revenge, for certain he is not friends with Rumple now, but he realized, that his quest for revenge was a dead end. I wouldn’t be so sure though, that Hook has his happy ending already in the bag, he might get happy moments but wouldn’t confuse that with happy ending, and not just because of Emma’s struggle with herself, but wouldn’t be surprised, if Hook will have a kind of relapse. Saying he is on a road of redemption would be wrong, he doesn’t care to get redeemed. And as the goal justified for him any means while he was on his vengeance trip, I think there is still a chance the same could happen if Emma were in danger.
We generally are more understanding if we like a person, or a character, more willing to find good explanations, see that they are trying though maybe failing, we usually struggle to call a person out for bad stuff without fuss or quibble if we like them. The more we like a person, even identify with them, the less likely we will convict, condemn them, or at least if then we go for a lenient sentence. Lawyers know of the effect of sympathy, it’s defense 101. Research has shown, that something as seemingly small as the camera angle of a videotaped confession can have influence on assessment of a confession: A camera angle focused on the suspect makes it more likely that the confession is perceived as voluntary and the suspect as guilty. While focusing the camera on the interrogator makes people question more the reliability of the confession. Good directors and DP’s/ camera people know a lot about influences of camera angle on perception, emotion, what framing can do. Just saying.
Eventually though, when pushed too hard to feel sympathy, the opposite can happen as well, it is felt as forced, unearned, the person/character becomes disliked. When disliked a person has to do so much more to get (back) on our good side.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
My theory: People are more ready to forgive Rumple because of why and how he went down the road to dark power: to protect Bae. A
Yup. We often hear “the things we do for our children…” as an excuse for Rumple. When we got Rumple’s back story for why he became the Dark One (in some part to protect his child) it was more powerful than Regina’s motivation behind hating Snow (Snow’s supposed guilt over Daniel’s death). Apart from Evil Regals, for the most part, everyone as far as I can recall thoguht Regina was way off on her blame.
Furthermore. Rumple is, I think, less shown to make innocent, sympathetic people suffer or let alone kill them.
He’s never ordered the death of an entire village for example. There is also this: Rumple makes deals. When he tells Belle that everyone knows not to cross the Dark One, she responds “no, they don’t!” He’s the most powerful sorcerer in the realm, in theory, but he doesn’t take what he wants…he deals for them.
Eventually though, when pushed too hard to feel sympathy, the opposite can happen as well, it is felt as forced, unearned, the person/character becomes disliked. When disliked a person has to do so much more to get (back) on our good side.
Agreed. Even after all this, Rumple is still my favorite and I still look at Regina with shift eyes, not sure how to take her 95% of the time.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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