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I agree with both Epona and WR. Regina has done many terrible things and she has done some good things. However, if we’re basing one good thing cancels out one bad thing, then Regina still has a lot of bad deeds to make up for. Regina is doing the thing she’s always done. She’s blaming others rather than taking responsibility for her actions. For example, she’s blaming Emma for ruining her happy ending, when it is Regina’s actions that are ruining her own happy ending.
If Regina (or anyone) wants a happy ending then she needs to earn it (and she HAS started on that path). But she cannot manipulate the situations or “change fate” to get herself a happy ending.
What good deed can this woman do to make up for her past???? Again I ask….after everything….what will it take!
Rumplestilskin sacrificed his own life to save SB from Pan, and yet people still put him on the “villain” pedestal. Regina was willing to sacrifice her life to send the people she cursed back home to the EF, and then turned around and sacrificed her own happy ending by sending Henry away with Emma, still sending the people she cursed back home to the EF.
How is Regina blaming others? It is Emma’s fault….good deed or not…she did not think of the consequences of screwing with time and fate! So Marian being back, is Emma’s fault. And Marian dying….clearly we were shown that Marian had two choices. You can either snitch and go back home to your family, or you can keep Snow White’s secret and die for her. Marian chose option 2 which landed her where she was. Did Regina kill her…yes! Did Regina give Marian an option…yes! Did Marian take that option…No!
Marian was trying to touch fire, hoping she wouldn’t get burned. But as Regina said “silence was stupidity”.
[adrotate group="5"]"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
What good deed can this woman do to make up for her past???? Again I ask….after everything….what will it take!
You seem to be conflating that bad things that have happened TO Regina are the same as good things that Regina has done herself. They are not the same. Everyone has bad thing happen to them, but that doesn’t negate the bad things they themselves have done.
No good deed wipes out (totally) the bad ones. But again, it’s impossible for everyone to get a happy ending. Regina’s victims are never going to get one, nor their families. But Regina will. Of course she will. A and E aren’t going to deny her that. But from a standpoint of considering the WHOLE, it’s not possible. So A and E are letting the (main character) “villian” get a happy ending instead of the victims. It’s…troubling. And this goes for Rumple and other villains as well.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It’s not necessarily a question about living, it’s about living with yourself. A guilty conscience is never a pleasant companion.
Marian could’ve given up Snow, but then she would have to live knowing that she sent an innocent woman to her death. If Regina had found out Snow’s whereabouts of her own accord and arrested Snow, Marian probably wouldn’t have set out to rescue Snow. However Marian was not going to give up Snow’s whereabouts as that would make Marian directly responsible for what happened to Snow. Also Robin’s whole shtick about “stealing from the rich and give to the poor” was about fighting injustice and those that abused their power, so Marian probably was influenced by Robin.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThe biggest problem is the idea that you can force a happy ending and simultaneously take one away. If Regina gets her happy ending (and Marian dies) then what about Marian and Roland? They lose their happy ending.
Regina HAS done good things. She was on the path, it was fine. But now she’s trying to force fate’s hand, which is what she tells Sidney. She doesn’t want to work for it anymore, she wants fate to be changed in her favor. That’s cheating the moral system.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"The biggest problem is the idea that you can force a happy ending and simultaneously take one away. If Regina gets her happy ending (and Marian dies) then what about Marian and Roland? They lose their happy ending. Regina HAS done good things. She was on the path, it was fine. But now she’s trying to force fate’s hand, which is what she tells Sidney. She doesn’t want to work for it anymore, she wants fate to be changed in her favor. That’s cheating the moral system.
According to Adam and Eddy: Roland barely knows his mother. Does it make it right…no…but it is what it is. Marian’s fate was death….Emma intervened and messed up with fate leaving Regina once again to pay the price. Was Emma rescuing Marian not forcing fate’s hand….yes she was….Regina is merely fixing what Emma broke.
How much work does it take? Death? Rumple tried that. Sacrifice? Regina tried that. Nothing works….she’s all out of options. Regina had succeeded, she won, she became a hero twice! Right up until the moment that Emma brought Marian back, thus rendering Regina off her pedestal of victory. Fate was in her favor until Emma screwed it up!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
For what it’s worth, here are my thoughts on some of the topics raised.
1. I agree that the idea that “everyone” gets a happy ending applies only to the main characters. Obviously, there’s no way to give a happy ending to the guy Rumple turned into a snail, or to the villagers massacred by Regina, or to their loved ones. Not even all the regular characters will get a happy ending. Neal didn’t. Graham didn’t. There may yet be more losses.
2. I suspect they are going to be more creative in how they dish out happy endings than most of the fan conversations seem to imply. Remember, we’ve been told repeatedly, “Your happy ending may not be what you think it will be.” This avoids the problem of what seem to be mutually exclusive happy endings, e.g. Marion vs Regina. One of them doesn’t have to “lose” in order for the other to “win”. It’s quite possible that Marion or Regina or both could find a happy ending without Robin.
3. On a related note, I was glad to see that Sunday night’s episode seemed to be somewhat defusing the whole idea of a Marion-Robin-Regina triangle and instead gave us a Robin Hood who made the honorable choice while giving us Regina’s disappointment as an opportunity for more struggle and growth of her character. She was clearly tempted to fall back into her old habits but managed to resist in the end and save Marion. I think her story remains interesting so long as she continues to take two steps forward and one step back, which provides a mechanism to study her character.
4. I don’t think Emma is at fault in any way. She saved an innocent woman’s life! That’s a good thing. Period. If that causes an inconvenience to Regina’s social life, that’s a pretty trivial price to pay. I don’t understand why almost everyone is assuming the Star Trek model of time travel in which changing the timeline is a terrible thing that must be avoided. There are plenty of other SF stories in which changing the timeline for the better is the main goal. When we’re dealing with a fictional activity like time travel, we don’t have to be bound by one particular interpretation of it which says there is some “Fate” that shouldn’t be changed.
According to Adam and Eddy: Roland barely knows his mother. Does it make it right…no…but it is what it is.
Doesn’t matter. At all. Children who grow up having lost one parent feel it deeply. They wonder about what that missing parent was like and how they would get along, ect. And Roland knows Marian NOW. He was in her arms, he hugged her, he called her Momma. It doesn’t matter one single bit how long Roland has known her.
2. I suspect they are going to be more creative in how they dish out happy endings than most of the fan conversations seem to imply. Remember, we’ve been told repeatedly, “Your happy ending may not be what you think it will be.” This avoids the problem of what seem to be mutually exclusive happy endings, e.g. Marion vs Regina. One of them doesn’t have to “lose” in order for the other to “win”. It’s quite possible that Marion or Regina or both could find a happy ending without Robin.
Given that Sean wasn’t made a regular cast member I am becoming quite suspicious that Regina’s HEA involves Robin at all. It really might just be a full heart and Henry.
She was clearly tempted to fall back into her old habits but managed to resist in the end and save Marion. I think her story remains interesting so long as she continues to take two steps forward and one step back, which provides a mechanism to study her character.
Agreed but Regina still thinks she can force a HEA and you…can’t. You can’t cheat fate by finding someone to write you a HEA.
4. I don’t think Emma is at fault in any way. She saved an innocent woman’s life! That’s a good thing. Period.
Agreed 100000000%
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Given that Sean wasn’t made a regular cast member I am becoming quite suspicious that Regina’s HEA involves Robin at all. It really might just be a full heart and Henry.
I agree. I think the whole Robin Hood plot may have just been another “speed bump” for Regina’s character development. She may get a happy ending in the form of a romance with someone else, or or with no one (although it would be nice if she did eventually find someone.)
I do think Rumple and Regina will probably both earn happy endings. But I suspect if the show had ended after just two seasons, they might have gone with that finale of Regina sacrificing herself and not saved her. Likewise, if the third season had been the end, I think they might have shown us the same finale we saw but without the scene of Hook arriving in New York, so Rumple would have sacrificed himself. I wonder if they’ll ever reveal if they might have made such plans?
Ok….OutlawQueen was prophesied long time ago…..Fate had plans to unite Robin with Regina a long time ago! The prophecy more than likely still stands….and prophecy is worked by fate. Fate moved Marian out of the picture, it’s got some type of sense of humor, but still it was Marian’s fate to die! Emma changed it, thus TAMPERING with fate! Whether she saved a life or not, it was Marian’s fate to die! Emma took it upon herself to intervene, and screw with fate by stopping the process!
Had Emma not saved Marian….everybody, by Core Cast means, would be happy! There would be no worries! Emma has set in place a series of unfortunate events…and more than likely…Fate is gonna wanna play Final Destination with Marian’s life, a la Ice Monster choosing to squash her first instead of anyone else! Regina intervened that time, unknowingly stopping what could have been Fate righting Emma’s wrong. But that’s not the person she is anymore…she’s not the Evil Queen…she’s Regina, A mother/step-grandmother/Mayor/Queen….
According to Adam and Eddy: Roland barely knows his mother. Does it make it right…no…but it is what it is.
Doesn’t matter. At all. Children who grow up having lost one parent feel it deeply. They wonder about what that missing parent was like and how they would get along, ect. And Roland knows Marian NOW. He was in her arms, he hugged her, he called her Momma. It doesn’t matter one single bit how long Roland has known her.
2. I suspect they are going to be more creative in how they dish out happy endings than most of the fan conversations seem to imply. Remember, we’ve been told repeatedly, “Your happy ending may not be what you think it will be.” This avoids the problem of what seem to be mutually exclusive happy endings, e.g. Marion vs Regina. One of them doesn’t have to “lose” in order for the other to “win”. It’s quite possible that Marion or Regina or both could find a happy ending without Robin.
Given that Sean wasn’t made a regular cast member I am becoming quite suspicious that Regina’s HEA involves Robin at all. It really might just be a full heart and Henry.
She was clearly tempted to fall back into her old habits but managed to resist in the end and save Marion. I think her story remains interesting so long as she continues to take two steps forward and one step back, which provides a mechanism to study her character.
Agreed but Regina still thinks she can force a HEA and you…can’t. You can’t cheat fate by finding someone to write you a HEA.
4. I don’t think Emma is at fault in any way. She saved an innocent woman’s life! That’s a good thing. Period.
Agreed 100000000%
1. Fate is a cruel, twisted, but logical thing….Roland was being raised A-Okay by Robin alone….
2. If that’s the case then we can say the same about Rumple…his redemption could have just been sacrificing his life to defeat Pan, thus dying a hero who was redeemed. But that’s not the case, they brought him back, Rumbelle got wedding. I think that would be very unfair for Rumple (whose influence introduced darkness into the Mills Women lives, and also manipulated someone into killing one, and killed the other himself) has a happy ending with true love, and Regina who already lost her true love twice, be denied the same HEA.
And also…Outlaw Queen is prophesied to happen…Fate working hard to ensure that. Then OQ are soulmates, something Regina has over Marian, so that connection between Robin and Regina is probably higher than it ever was with Daniel and Marian.
3 And 4. Ok….did Emma not cheat Fate out of Marian’s death? I think she did….it’s Emma’s fault! Saving a life, and screwing with time…those came with heavy prices that Regina had to pay for Emma’s stupidity. Had Emma left well enough alone….NONE of this would even be happening!!!! If you went back in time, and Hook told you not to screw with anything, and Rumple told you not to screw with anything….WHY would you still screw with anything?
Emma made a very stupid decision that was somewhat OOC because S1 Emma would never tamper with Fate!
Regina is just righting Emma’s wrong!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
WickedRegal* Am I understanding you right that you are saying it would be fine for Regina to “kill” Marion or more inadvertently just stand by and let her die knowing she could help- like in the snowmonster case. And that that would be okay for her to do ? then she would be “Good Regina” no longer a villain, and well on her way to redemption and finding her happy ending ??
How would that not put her right back in the Evil Queen role that she is trying to cast of herself?
As you say, the situation is what it is. Marion is there now, whether she was ment to or not. Its not up to Regina to deside on “Fate’s” behalf what is supposed to be or not…
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