To much bad blood for the ‘perfect’ endgame?

[surayya]

I had been & have again recently been thinking a bit about our mains ‘perfectly neat’ endgame – ie. Something that wraps everyone up neatly in a bow & they all live (or not) happily ever after...
EXAMPLE:
Snow & Charming get true love, their daughter & grandson- ability to increase their family.

Emma gets true love with Hook, her son & a loving family who will never leave her. Being with Hook means the Hook/Rumple hate is resolved & ended- Hook’s vengeance is ended/given up having found his true love, they to can increase their family.

Neal gets true love with Regina, Neal hates magic, Regina cant be around or use magic for fear she will ‘slip up’ & go all evil queen on the land again, so they fit well together & neither will judge the other for their ‘magical disabilities’ & can support/ help each other with it.
Neal with Regina means Regina will forever be bound to Henry as his Mum- no matter what, something she seems to be still weary of having taken away from her.
It also means the Regina/Rumple problem is solved- Rumple can’t be making his son’s true love, his personal endgame puppet at will if he wants his son’s love.
Regina being with Neal means Regina has to forgive Snow & let her hate there go.
Neal & Regina also get the opportunity to expand their family, something Regina has felt she can never have.

Rumple gets Belle & true love for once, he gives up ‘dark magic/magic’ to be with his son & so ends those big bads.

Henry gets 2 sets of loving parents, 2 sets of loving & lets be honest, pretty darn awesome grandparents, so is pretty much the happiest camper in 2 worlds 😉

AGAIN THE ABOVE IS AN EXAMPLE OF NEAT & TIDY ONLY!
…That’s what I mean by ‘perfectly neat’ happy ever after endgame….However, this theory relies on A&E finding better/different happy ever afters than the FTL norm, for Emma, Regina & Neal.

The other hitch with having a perfectly neat, happy ever after end game for them all, is at this point Snow & Regina shouldn’t be able to live happily ever after with each other, in their lives- period! (How many of us would happily embrace a women into our own families life, who has not only had tried to murder you many times over, ripped out your heart, murdered your father, nearly killed your husband, went after your new born baby, tried to kill your daughter, framed you for murder, poisoned you into a cursed sleep, who expressed pleasure when finding out her mother murdered your mother- making you believe it was your own fault she died as a young child, as well as stood buy & smiled smugly as your only childhood caregiver was killed for the fun of watching you suffer & cursed an entire world to make you miserable & suffer….. all because she wrongly accused you of killing her true love/ boyfriend, because she herself couldn’t face the fact her mother did the deed, despite it happening right in front of her face!).
Regina certainly wont forget Snow tricking her into killing her own mother.

I like the idea of them forgiving each other (as much as is possible) & them both finding redemption with-in themselves for their actions (to be honest, I feel Snow doesn’t have much left to look for there- she did offer to give her life to Regina in exchange for what she caused happen & she did try to stop it after she came to her senses after all), but somethings can never be forgotten….. the stuff that has gone down between Regina & Snow is well past the forgive & forget stage, now all the secrets are out between them- so where does that leave them endgame wise? I’m not sure now? But it has changed what form ‘redemption’ can or should take & still be ‘real’ or ‘believable’.

Before S2 started I used to feel Emma & Neal/Bae would be together, so connecting the 2 families together, but not long after S2 started, it became clear (to my point of view) that this may not be the case (which for me was confirmed in Manhattan).

What Neal did to Emma is another form of shouldn’t forget about it all & live happy ever after despite it (ok, he didn’t kill anyone- we know of…yet), but Emma has an innate need to trust & be trusted, love & be loved deeply; she needs someone she can rely on, who will forever stand with her when things get tough & most importantly not abandon her- no matter what…. Neal failed those needs, in fact in doing so, he hurt/broke her so deeply, she has so far been scared for life from it (as she said ‘she never goes further than a one night stand’, has walls up, living life alone etc), that is not something a person should, or could ever simply forget about & be able to settle down & trust said person 100% again- they will always have doubt creep in- which will not make for a ‘happy ever after’, by anyone’s standards & she deserves more than that, having her family, love & life taken from her, in order to save everyone else.
Yes she again should forgive him (for Henry’s sake if nothing else), accept it happened & move on to be with someone she can trust 100% to be there & will love her (whether that be Hook or some other guy we have yet to meet- it doesn’t matter) & I would hope Neal would acknowledged what he did to her, not just in doing the above, but in also in having her wrongly imprisoned & then abandoning her.

Would it not be better for these 3 at least to have ‘FTL inspired real world’ versions of happy ever afters, rather than try to force the FTL versions on them, when so much unforgettable & in Regina/Snow’s case, almost unforgivable actions have passed between them?

Edited to Add:
PLEASE! Don’t turn this thread into a shipping thread, it’s for the discussion of how much is too much, for a perfect endgame ‘happy ever after’ to be possible

[MysteryKat25]

Short version: I agree on the 3 couples you mentioned Surayya!

As far as the couples go that’s what I’ve been voting for since Tallahassee! It would wrap things up in a nice little bow but it would also be thinking outside the box!

Henry would have everybody he loves / loves him in his life still but it wouldn’t be the “oh they have a kid, this is a fairy tale story, clearly they’re destined to be together even though both of them have spent a lot of time in the real world and not FTL like all the other couples of the show” scenario.

If it were all in FTL I could see the point, but given that Emma spent her whole life practically in the real world and NealFire doesn’t want a lot to do with FTL to begin with, it should at least be a possibility to consider that they can be in Henry’s life and make peace with the past but move on to other people at some point.

I like (ok LOVE) the idea of CaptainSwan cause they understand each other and bring out the best in one another. I was also rooting for …QueenFire? (I have NO idea what this would be called, just taking a stab at it) because of the issue they both have with magic and the idea that they both love Henry / want to be in his life and NealFire reminds me a little of Daniel in his naive sweetness (though he’s more cowardly, something he has to work on). It might help Regina with her magic issues and like you said, if she’s with him then she’s definitely within the web of Henry’s parents in 2 ways which *might* calm her down about worrying that somebody is going to take him.

For the record it has nothing to do with bio-family vs adoptive, she’s just really messed up and has a lot of work to do but for Henry’s happiness she needs to be a part of things if she can change her ways and if anybody can ultimately get her to do that it’s Henry. She just needs a little extra help. I could see her making an effort to bond with NealFire (probably for all the wrong reasons at first) but they’ve both been manipulated by Rumple, they both want Henry and they both have issues with magic, there’s a possibility at least (though I admit she hasn’t made a very good impression on him so far I’m sure!)

Looking forward to seeing how it all plays out but unless the whole point of the story is that Henry gets absolutely everything he ever wanted (he’s already called a brat by a lot of the fandom apparently) I don’t see why anything is set in stone in season 2 regarding who his parents end up with. He’s lucky to have them both in his life now and yeah, there’s tension because they obviously have a past (and a kid) together, but it would be silly to think they didn’t. Just because you loved someone a decade ago doesn’t mean you do now, your brain just reminds you of how you felt then and there are a lot of issues to work out whether it turns romantic or they realize the past is the past and move on.

It’s season 2 people, there’s a long way to go to get to endgame, anything can happen (ok ok, the main couples that are fairy tale / disney canon are pretty much locks, I don’t see them messing with those) but for new people it’s all up in the air and that’s the beauty of it.

This story has never been all FTL, it’s split and the main character, the savior, spent her whole life in the real world. That has to have some affect on something. We’ve seen little bits of this with other characters who enjoyed their SB personas and the “We Are Both” episode showed that they have been affected by it (though they still have their true loves from FTL). Emma and NealFire weren’t part of that. They’ve been in the real world and experienced things other than true love’s kiss solves everything. It’s not that far-fetched to realize how jaded Emma is at this point and that she might be drawn to something more real-world than FTL when it comes down to it (not that she would be drawn to a non-FTL person at this point because she’d want to stay with her family who I would guess would eventually end up in FTL again etc etc, just that her version of reality is very different from everyone else’s. In fact I’m waiting for her to say not all of us grew up in a fairy tale world where things are so easy and then go for the unexpected choice).

Now I admit part of this may be my CaptainSwan filter (though I do get why people ship SwanFire – I did like the idea before it became Neal who I am thoroughly unimpressed with but will accept it if they work for me and make it plausible to me after everything they’ve been through), but the scenario you set forth would at least given all of them a plausible happy ending and I can easily see those couples working.

Again, we’re talking endgame; there’s a lot of journey left and along the way I’m sure various fandoms will get their shot at what it’s like to see their coupling whether it’s short-lived or not. There aren’t many options for “true” triangles around here since we grew up knowing their stories and we’ve seen true love’s kiss work etc. Let’s enjoy the new, NOT SET IN STONE, characters and experience their journey, not knowing what to expect and see where it takes us.

I know the way they’ve written SwanFire stuff so far makes it seem like they could be destined but the biggest argument I hear for that is Henry, and for real-world-experienced characters, that’s just not enough for me. I could see NealFire idealizing it that way and thinking it absolves him of all the bad choices (especially because Emma has made bad ones too) but I don’t see Emma putting up with that. In fact I think it’ll snap her out of it because she’d be the first to say that her life isn’t like that of the rest of the FTL people.

I thought along the same lines last season with August once he was revealed as Pinocchhio. It set up the aww, 2 children from FTL, separated and reunited, mistakes have been made but they’re close now etc, I could see how they’d want to pair them up and it would fit in with other fairy tales (in Sleeping Beauty for example, Prince Phillip was 7 when baby Aurora was born and he met her then, was separated from her, met her again and saved her and the entire kingdom which broke the sleeping spell the fairies put to keep everybody in the dark until Princess Aurora was rescued from her cursed sleep etc etc). It all fit. And now where are? August isn’t an option and NealFire’s in town.

So they’ve set up plenty of plausible solutions for who she might end up with (she’s had chemistry with basically every guy thrown at her, though some have met tragic ends *sniff*) and the field is wide open because Emma DOESN’T respond to things the way that FTL want her to. Look at how she was when Snow & Charming were just happy to see their little girl. It took her a long time to accept the choices they made.

I’d love to see all the characters we love find happiness, so whatever pairings happen I want the ones left out in the cold to find somebody as well (and hopefully it’ll be a pairing I can root for too, especially if it’s Hook…), but these 3 pairings could work and I could see it happening easily. Otherwise they’ll have to find somebody new for Regina and for Hook and with the way she’s treated him I really don’t see that happening nor ever see myself wanting it to (and I love Hook so regardless of who he’s paired with I want to be able to root for it).

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[surayya]

Lol mysterycat, I hear you, but I was meaning was there now too much bad blood for that (or another version of it) ‘magical happy ever after’ endgame for all of our mains (A&E have said point blank we have 6 mains- Snowing, Emma, Henry, Regina & Rumple- so I’m thinking of all of them)?

How could Regina ‘fit’ into family life with all she’s done? That’s A LOT of murder of Snows family, A Lot of life lost & life destroying Snow has suffered directly from the hands of Regina, now….how is everyone meant to sit around the table & have a conversation with that in the back ground, I’m surprised Henry isn’t more upset about all of it as well…some of it is rather recent.
Neal & Emma are easy, I would just rather have the ‘real world’ raised characters, have real world happy ever afters…even if they stay here (I hope not) or go to FTL.

[kfchimera]

@MysteryKat25 wrote:

It’s season 2 people, there’s a long way to go to get to endgame, anything can happen (ok ok, the main couples that are fairy tale / disney canon are pretty much locks, I don’t see them messing with those) but for new people it’s all up in the air and that’s the beauty of it.

I agree with that completely. Of course, I don’t think “happiness” at endgame has to be defined by romance. Season 1 had Emma kissing Henry with true love and breaking not just his sleeping curse, but the entire curse on the town’s memories. I think that was significant.

I think it would cheapen Regina’s redemption if the only reason she felt secure in Henry’s place in her life, or even the primary reason, is that she marries his father. Stepmothers in fairytales after all, are a dangerous category! If she is redeemed, it should be through her actions and choices, and Henry should recognize her as his mother on his own. But depending on how evil they make Tamara, I suppose Regina would be a step up for Neal (because at least she wouldn’t have cheated on him….)

The Hook situation is a little different since there is no parental love issue (that we know about…..there is that crack theory, that Milah and Hook were lovers before she ran away with him, and HE is actually Bae’s father…which, if the writers went there, could also create that family tie sort of bond. But I don’t like that theory or think it is supported by what we’ve seen). Anyway, if Hook’s happy ending is a new love, I think the writers will have just as much work to put him with Emma as they would to repair her relationship with Neal. That speaks to the potential of both relationships, really, because we are so early on in the show, and the writers need something to write about before the happily ever after.

I think Emma is capable of forgiving Neal for betraying her and letting her go to jail. Not right now, but her biggest objection was that he listened to Pinochio. It sounds funny because WE know the legend of Pinnochhio as a liar. Yet if she thought Pinnochio was knowledgeable, powerful & sincere, would she have been as upset about Neal listening to him? If the writers give us scenes to fill in the gap between “how could you possibly trust THAT guy and leave me” versus “Ok, I’m still upset, but I see why you felt you had to do it ” to maybe even seeing it as a sacrifice not just for the greater good, but for her own good done out of love. It all depends on what other scenes the writers have in mind.

The same applies with Hook. Emma thinks of him at best as a low potential threat right now (her line that she was not sure how much more damage he could cause). We need to see how he thinks about her given she just beaned him with a can and ruined his revenge. If he doesn’t hold that against her, that is a start of a change in his nature. Then we need to go from there, to seeing scenes of them falling for each other.

So there’s a long way to go to happily ever after, and the writers seem to have purposefully put both Neal and Hook into Emma’s path. Regardless of which they pair (if any) with Emma, the other could be put with Regina, or even with a new character, because there’s really so much room for the writers to play around. Henry seems like he would probably be able to roll with the flow so long as everyone isn’t trying to kill each other, even if they aren’t one big happy family. (Judging from his friendly reaction to Tamara).

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[surayya]

Of course I’m not suggesting their endgame be planned for end of S2 or even S3 (if it happens) 😉

I’m not even really talking about the pairings as such for the endgames (I just used that as 1 of the many examples of how ALL the main character’s could have their loose ends tied up nicely & live happily ever after…. I’m not sure this particular scenario can happen now though 😕 ). I don’t want this to turn into a who should ship who thread lol 😉 .
It’s the endgame ‘happy ever after’ relationship, between ALL our mains, come end of the show as a whole that I’m talking about…..whether that be S3 or S10 it doesn’t matter at this point.

I kind of see the core of the show as telling the story of our main 6 as a collective, with branching stories of those 6 as individuals coming off of it… but it all boils back down to the relationship of those 6 at the heart of the show (at least for me).

I’m certainly not talking about romantic relationships as a form of redemption either (though I personally cant see how the above relationships, could happen unless redemption etc, had already take place before they got together 😕 ….but that’s just me).

I see those as 2 very different aspects to the over all endgame, but not necessarily exclusive, since all 6 of our mains have shown or talked of their desire for true love/deep love, happiness & family (no I haven’t included Neal or Hook, as they aren’t considered ‘main’ characters…Yet! They are included in the OP scenario, as they both play big roles in the lives of the main 6 😉 )

The question is: At this point, is there to much bad blood- esp between Regina & Snow, for there to be a ‘realistic’ chance of something like the above ‘happy ever after’ scenario for them all?

[jbwood5]

Hook and Emma are not going to end up together. People really have to realize that by now. He is too devoted to the memory of Milah. And Emma will always love Nealfire, just as he will always love her. It is very possible hook and Regina could end up together. They have much more in common. They both have one true goal. Avenge the death of their true love, where Nealfire and Emma are both dealing with their daddy/mommy issues and both grew up alone and never had anybody till they found each other. Plus, everybody knows Henry is a smart kid who is going to realize this and will want to see his parents happy and what makes them happy will be each other with him. And I also think he will convince both Hook and Regina to give up on revenge and this will give them something to bring the 2 together to be happy. As for Snow and Charming they are either going to live happily ever after or we are going to see a Romeo and Juliet type ending for them.

[surayya]

@Jbwood5 wrote:

Hook and Emma are not going to end up together. People really have to realize that by now. He is too devoted to the memory of Milah. And Emma will always love Nealfire, just as he will always love her. It is very possible hook and Regina could end up together. They have much more in common. They both have one true goal. Avenge the death of their true love, where Nealfire and Emma are both dealing with their daddy/mommy issues and both grew up alone and never had anybody till they found each other. Plus, everybody knows Henry is a smart kid who is going to realize this and will want to see his parents happy and what makes them happy will be each other with him. And I also think he will convince both Hook and Regina to give up on revenge and this will give them something to bring the 2 together to be happy. As for Snow and Charming they are either going to live happily ever after or we are going to see a Romeo and Juliet type ending for them.

Please no ship comments- that’s not what this thread is about!

I stated clearly that the scenario I posted was an EXAMPLE of an endgame happily ever after- Not what will or should happen pairing wise.
It is there to show what I was meaning by ‘perfectly neat & tidy’ endgame, ‘happy ever after’ come shows end, for all our main characters- NOTHING more (if I could have used other names & have it make sense I would have!)

If you wish to discuss whether certain characters have gone too far across the line, to be a part of the type of ‘happy ever after for the 6’, then please post away 🙂

[kfchimera]

@Surayya wrote:

Please no ship comments- that’s not what this thread is about!

Perhaps if you framed things in your original post differently you would get comments more on track to the discussion you want. Even now with your edits, you make a lot of statements about your impressions and theories of the possible romantic relationships between various characters.

Now part of this is because you were trying to elaborate on why Emma is unhappy now, so you could explain what it would take to make her happy. You centered that part on her relationship with Neal. You even set up a comparison more or less with the hurt Neal caused Emma to that of the enmity between Snow and Regina. I think these two relationships are not even in the same ballpark. Emma does not hate Neal. You may feel she should (and I disagree with a lot of your conclusions about how deeply he hurt her…but this would get too long to go into all that), but that’s not the direction the writers have gone down. Whether or not they have romantic feelings for each other, I don’t think Emma is defining her happiness in terms of Neal’s unhappiness. Regina, on the other, has not quite abandoned thinking that if Snow is unhappy, that she would be happy. So in this sense, it would not be enough for Regina to love Neal for her to get along with Snow. I don’t know yet how angry Regina is with Rumpel for his role in everything to make a similar conclusion. I think Regina is in the process of changing how she feels about Rumpel.

In any case, if what you are asking is: Can Regina, Rumple, Snow & Charming, Emma and Henry ever coexist peacefully enough for a “happily ever after”?, then I would answer, yes they can. The Charmings, Henry and Emma are being written as capable of extreme amounts of forgiveness. We’ve seen Emma say something like she got a second chance, so she is willing to give others one too. Henry believes there must be some other way than killing Regina to resolve things. Snow pardoned Regina and said there was once good in her. Of course right now, she is in a darker place, but I think she will get back to be willing to forgive. Charming risked his life to try to save Anton after Anton had attacked him in an angry rampage. They are the “heroes” so that means they WANT to (sometimes) take the risk that the bad guy can be saved. The writers have said the show is all about hope.

As for the “Villains” of Regina and Rumpel, they both may do things that seem like completely mentally unstable sociopaths, but they do both want to find love for and with other people. So I think the writers could believably take them on a journey of learning how to be better.

That said, I don’t think a realistic ending is one in which everyone (who is an adult) is paired off romantically. There are people in the real world who are not in romantic relationships, but who are not lonely and unhappy, because they do have love. Even in stories that can work as a “happy ending”, as it did in Pinnochio, Up or more recently, Brave. I like romantic subplots, so I’m not opposed to having characters paired up at the end, but of course, to discuss the possibilities of what is more “real world” there might derail the thread again.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[surayya]

@KFChimera wrote:

Perhaps if you framed things in your original post differently you would get comments more on track to the discussion you want.

Possibly- I just couldn’t think of a way to word it, so that every single person would read it for what it is, instead of looking for ships at every line. I had thought people would see the distinction between a relationship itself & the reason or point of said relationship coming into being – I guess I was wrong, as I suppose at the end of the day, if I had said someone died or got young again & given the reasons for it as an example, they’d be going on about how that couldn’t/shouldn’t happen, rather than the actual circumstances it’d create or not (which is why I kept my personal feelings about each character/relationship- aka shipping- out of the equation, there’s no place for them in this discussion).

Even now with your edits, you make a lot of statements about your impressions and theories of the possible romantic relationships between various characters.

Umm, No I disagree with you there.
The one place I have endgame ‘romantic’ relationships (& that’s not the purpose of them as stated many times over), it’s covered in EXAMPLE labels- people just choose to take it as shipping statement, rather than what it is- THE ENDGAME REASONS FOR THOSE PAIRS BEING TOGETHER (although I kept the reasons as basic as possible), each is named, followed by the REASON why that would help create the neat & tidy (all loose ends tied up), endgame…Not who should or could be with whom- BIG difference & the distinction I am talking about.

Now part of this is because you were trying to elaborate on why Emma is unhappy now, so you could explain what it would take to make her happy. You centered that part on her relationship with Neal. You even set up a comparison more or less with the hurt Neal caused Emma to that of the enmity between Snow and Regina.

Yes I did- again because I’m looking at “endgame, happy ever afters” & the circumstances surrounding them, that relationship is now more complicated than simply being deeply hurt after a bad break up, so it is relevant & included. I could have used say… Regina & Rumple as another example, but I don’t think they’ve really crossed the line ‘yet’, so that would be pointless or Rumple killing Henry to keep his power, but again that hasn’t happened yet either (although if it did, I cant see Regina, Emma, Neal or Snowing forgetting about it enough, for him to be part of a big 6 happy ever after)

I think these two relationships are not even in the same ballpark. Emma does not hate Neal. You may feel she should (and I disagree with a lot of your conclusions about how deeply he hurt her…but this would get too long to go into all that), but that’s not the direction the writers have gone down. Whether or not they have romantic feelings for each other, I don’t think Emma is defining her happiness in terms of Neal’s unhappiness.

1) If you read what I wrote, I stated that the circumstances between the 2 where very different already, that wasn’t what was being compared, as has been stated repeatedly.

2) It’s not their relationships that I’ve focused on- it’s the circumstances surrounding them. Yes the relationships are there- they have to be in order for the circumstances to take place at all!

3) I don’t need to elaborate on why Emma is unhappy now- it has been stated why on the show during both S1 & S2! The example I used was from S1 right out of Emma’s dialogue about why she has walls up with MM. Whether these were created by feeling abandoned or not from a baby, is irrelevant & why I didn’t go into further length breaking them down (it was long enough 😉 ).
There are other lines where she mentions what that relationship did to her, but I’m not going into it- the point is that is what we have been told & have to work with.

4)Nowhere did I or have I stated Emma should “hate” Neal or that her happiness is defined by Neal’s unhappiness either 🙄
What I stated was that he hurt her deeply, in a way that has scarred her (JM, A&E have already said the same thing, as has Emma- so it’s not pulled from thin air) & Why (she has already said what she needs etc, again so has E&A).

Regina, on the other, has not quite abandoned thinking that if Snow is unhappy, that she would be happy.

I agree with you & in the context of this thread, if it doesn’t change come last ep, then a final endgame happy ever after isn’t possible.

So in this sense, it would not be enough for Regina to love Neal for her to get along with Snow. I don’t know yet how angry Regina is with Rumpel for his role in everything to make a similar conclusion. I think Regina is in the process of changing how she feels about Rumpel.

Again I never stated that these endgames are for S2 or S3, but “end of the show”– as in when the show end’s, what would/should the happy ever after’s look like. No one at this point could live happy ever after the way things stand, so there’s no point worrying about ‘end of season’ endgames. As I said, post one is AFTER redemption/forgiveness has taken place between the ‘big 6’ & is say the last minutes of the last ep.

In any case, if what you are asking is: Can Regina, Rumple, Snow & Charming, Emma and Henry ever coexist peacefully enough for a “happily ever after”?, then I would answer, yes they can. The Charmings, Henry and Emma are being written as capable of extreme amounts of forgiveness. We’ve seen Emma say something like she got a second chance, so she is willing to give others one too. Henry believes there must be some other way than killing Regina to resolve things. Snow pardoned Regina and said there was once good in her. Of course right now, she is in a darker place, but I think she will get back to be willing to forgive. Charming risked his life to try to save Anton after Anton had attacked him in an angry rampage. They are the “heroes” so that means they WANT to (sometimes) take the risk that the bad guy can be saved. The writers have said the show is all about hope.

Yes it is! 🙂
Interesting thoughts & I agree to a large extent, it’s just that forgiving & forgetting are 2 different concepts… so you would consider Regina’s actions to date as forgettable enough to live as part of the family happily ever after?
I too think Snow will forgive her, in fact I almost think she maybe there tbh- it’s not like her to hold a grudge 😉 , it’s just Snow & pretty much everyone else, couldn’t embrace Regina when she was trying to change the 1st time (which was realistically done), they didn’t trust her, because of all the stuff she had previously done- there’s even more ‘bad blood’ now & that is what’s making me unsure of how far is too far, before ‘big happy family’ isn’t realistic between the 6.

As for the “Villains” of Regina and Rumpel, they both may do things that seem like completely mentally unstable sociopaths, but they do both want to find love for and with other people. So I think the writers could believably take them on a journey of learning how to be better.

I agree & don’t doubt this at all, but it’s not what I was wanting to discuss…. unless it is the journey we are talking about rather than if it could/should happen (again, it’s that distinction I was talking about which is tripping things up)

That said, I don’t think a realistic ending is one in which everyone (who is an adult) is paired off romantically. There are people in the real world who are not in romantic relationships, but who are not lonely and unhappy, because they do have love. Even in stories that can work as a “happy ending”, as it did in Pinnochio, Up or more recently, Brave. I like romantic subplots, so I’m not opposed to having characters paired up at the end, but of course, to discuss the possibilities of what is more “real world” there might derail the thread again.

I think I’ve made the purpose of the ‘pairings’ clear already, so wont repeat myself- But I do agree with you there- I used the shortest version on ‘neatly tied up’ endgame I could think of- it was a long post already with out trying to go longer lol. It is how these different kinds of tidy endgames would apply to our 6, that I find interesting.

I did actually write out an alternate tidy endgame, including some ‘singles & tweaked how it could all fit to be a tidy endgame ever after, but it was lost to cyber space 🙁 I will post them in a new post as this one is more than long enough.

[surayya]

I was thinking some other ways to having a tidy end of series endgame, is if Regina, Hook or Neal somehow ended up ‘young again’ like August did (I cant put the other’s from the ‘big 6’ into that possibility, as I can only see that making more loose ends), it would be hard for instance, to eventually ‘not forget’ how the now child Regina did all the horrific stuff, as she’d be Regina as she should/wanted to be, not as she was manipulated into being previously & so would/ could be realistically be included with the big 6 family.
I haven’t used Hook or Neal as the example, as we don’t know enough about their back/ full up stories yet.
I don’t really love the idea of young again & I haven’t gone into the circumstances of how it could happen (again all these things would happen AFTER or as part of redemption/forgiveness, NOT to avoid it!)- but if it’s that or death, young again works 😉

Memory loss could work as well I suppose, but would be harder to work in.

The same can be said for either Hook, Neal or even Regina dying after or in the process of redemption I guess (like any of the 3 throwing themselves in front of another to ‘save’ them- this would be after forgiveness etc or while its taking place kind of thing). A&E have already said no one is safe a war is coming & there will be deaths. I only mention those 3 as any of the others would cause more lose ends not tidy them up 😉

Also since I find it obvious, but others may not- Neal, Hook & Belle are only included in these endgames since they are deeply entwined in some of the big 6’s stories & their input is needed for ultimate redemption of Rumple in particular.

I really don’t want to write another long post, my lunch break is almost up! So I’ll leave it at this very simple basic level 🙂

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