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Maybe True Love has to be unconditional? Like they’ll believe in each other, find each other, die for each other no matter what? Belle and Rumple are always like, “I love you BUT you have to be a better man” and “I love you BUT I’m never going to give up my power”. It’s been getting worse and worse to the point where I’d have been more surprised if the kiss did work.
[adrotate group="5"]The thing that I believe makes TLK work is sacrificial love. (I’m trying to figure out how Zelena & Papa Jones fit in with this, but whatever…) Numerous characters have echoed sentiments about love being sacrifice. The moments when True Love stuff has worked were generally moments when both parties were willing to sacrifice for the other. When it hasn’t worked, it’s generally been because one party wasn’t In That Place (or was unable to BE in that place through lost memories).
But what about 3×19 when Regina’s TLK with Henry broke Zelena’s memory curse….
If I’m remembering right, Henry knew that it was his mom for that kiss; the kiss simply broke the rest of the curse. And both Henry and Regina had proven by that point that they were willing to sacrifice everything for the other’s happiness/life.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Maybe True Love has to be unconditional? Like they’ll believe in each other, find each other, die for each other no matter what? Belle and Rumple are always like, “I love you BUT you have to be a better man” and “I love you BUT I’m never going to give up my power”. It’s been getting worse and worse to the point where I’d have been more surprised if the kiss did work.
I feel like the “unconditional” factor is a slippery slope. If Charming wakes up on Sunday and decides to go out and kill everyone he meets in the streets, do he and Snow still have TL because Snow loves him “unconditionally.” I know love gets heavily romanticized on OUAT but romantic love shouldn’t be unconditional. There ARE conditions–safety, the general welfare of yourself and everyone around you, loyalty, fidelity, no abuse of any sort.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I feel like the “unconditional” factor is a slippery slope. If Charming wakes up on Sunday and decides to go out and kill everyone he meets in the streets, do he and Snow still have TL because Snow loves him “unconditionally.” I know love gets heavily romanticized on OUAT but romantic love shouldn’t be unconditional. There ARE conditions–safety, the general welfare of yourself and everyone around you, loyalty, fidelity, no abuse of any sort.
I see what you mean. But maybe the unconditional part can refer to what you know of the other person as they are now. This could explain why Belle’s kiss in S1 started to turn Rumple; maybe she didn’t fully comprehend all the evil he’d done back then and simply thought she loved all of him.
I don’t disagree and I think you’re right but given that Rumple is still casually murdering (Pan) and seems content with his dagger, which he happens to really really really love, how is it EVER going to work (with just a few handful of episodes left and other plot thingys coming. It’ll be fast and underwhelming at this point)
At this point, for me, the only way I’ll be happy with the resolution to this plot is if Rumple gets rid of the darkness for good somehow (maybe Zeus knows how) and then that sacrifice leads to him waking her up. To me, it makes sense that their relationship has changed so TLK is no longer there at the moment. And they have been setting this up for this whole half season. Rumple has to change for her. And I think he will and wake her by the end. And yes, this would mean that she doesn’t really love both the beast and the man and it would prove Rumple wrong. I think at this point, it’s the only way the story can go for me to be ok with it.
I think the entire notion of a woman being able to change a man is very problematic, both in the case of Rumple/Belle and Hades/Zelena. Just look at Zelena and Hades. They’re now being lauded as “true love” even though Hades just tried to trap Zelena’s sister and baby daddy in the UW. Zelena thinks Hades has changed for her, but all he has done is get what he always wanted: for Zelena to break his curse so that he could leave. He also entrapped the “heroes” in the process. Sure, he said he’d do anything for her (e.g. breaking up the contract), but it wasn’t all that sacrificial for him. He got something out of it: his passport to freedom in the form of his defrosted heart. Zelena being in love with Hades is probably the cherry on top, but I don’t think it’s a sacrifice on his part by any stretch of the imagination. Rumple and Belle, on the other hand, didn’t share TLK. I guess that is because Rumple didn’t sacrifice anything for her (e.g. his love of dark magic), but then I ask again, what did Hades really give up for Zelena? It’s not like the contract of Rumple’s baby was all that meaningful or useful to Hades except as leverage over the dark one.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
but then I ask again, what did Hades really give up for Zelena? It’s not like the contract of Rumple’s baby was all that meaningful or useful to Hades except as leverage over the dark one.
Yeah that’s a wrench in the sacrifice for true love idea. I said it in the sneak peek thread when that scene was released, it’s a minor price but it’s still a price. I guess sacrifice doesn’t have to a sweeping, life or death type but that really (really) does a disservice to the idea of True Love and all the couples who have really sacrificed something for their TL partner.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think the idea of sacrifice holds up, even within this episode, because the CS TL Test was “will Emma save Killian or her heart?” She had to risk sacrificing herself for him to pass the test. (I agree that she would’ve done that for anyone in her family, though, and possibly anyone as she’s the savior…but still, it was a loving sacrifice.)
It was a minor sacrifice, but Hades DID sacrifice something in almost the same moment as the TLK. And Zelena was willing to give in to that…letting go of the things that had held her back and taking a risk with her own heart, and she knew it was a risk to love him.
I think it still holds up, though there are some convolutions to the theory.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Hey all,
Rumbelle’s got me all kinds of confused this back half – although I have to say I’m loving Belle’s no nonsense attitude and Rumple’s “I’m DO and I love it”. I wasn’t surprised the TLK didn’t work and assume they’re setting that situation up to explain further…I do like the idea of sacrifice and wonder if maybe, like they did with Emma and Hook and have their TL confirmed through action and not a kiss. Honestly, they kind of use TLK as the save all for a lot, and we’ve already gotten how many on 5B? I like the idea of Rumple performing a completely altruistic sacrifice that results in Belle’s awakening as opposed to another TLK. I think he’s getting there and one thing I have liked about this arc is that Rumple is embracing the DO, but it seems he’s focusing on his powers more to do good than evil. And I think that’s more powerful an action in Belle’s eyes than a simple kiss.
I think in relation to TLK on Rumbelle they are waiting to be like Beauty and the Beast, so meaning the beast has to go, aka Dark one.
I think we cant compare RB to CS, especially bc to me that CS scene didnt confirmed CS as True love at all, if we take Hook from that scene and put any other character, like for example, Belle, Regina, Roland, Robin and some others ( not using Emma`s family members by blood), she would have chosen to save them as well and that doesnt mean she would have TL with belle, or with Regina, or with Robin and no way with Roland, that scene means that Emma is simply the savior, aka, she will have to put others in front of her needs. So i think RB TLK to work , Rumple has to be on same state of mind that he was on 311, Belle hapiness and his future child have to matter more to him, that his powers or his own life, he needs to be prepare to sacrifice himself and his powers for Belle.
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