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Now that Once Upon a Time’s Emma and Hook kissed, and she let go of her walls and fears, is a CaptainSwan relationship possible, or is it too soon? –freak91
Just because old issues have been put to rest, you can count on new ones arising. “There will be some challenges for them,” co-creator Adam Horowitz teases. Eddy Kitsis elaborates, saying, “The very first obstacle is Emma’s guilt over the fact that she just destroyed Regina’s relationship [with Robin Hood],” by transporting Marian to our world. “So there’s a part of her that feels guilt in starting a new romance of her own.”[adrotate group="5"]Oooo…the first of many obstacles I am sure. I hope they have a lot of challenges and avoid stagnant complacency. They thrive on mini-head butts and sass, and that makes for better drama, which creates more reasons to tune in, which also…presents delicious opportunities for “make-up” errr… moments (grin)
Emma will get over it.
la la laaa
***Always in search of a good flock***
Emma on the whole did the right thing. And i hope Hook and Emma work this out together, they are a team
Snowing + Captain Swan
You also have to look at the flip side of things: if Emma hadn’t saved Marian, then, Regina would have certainly killed her and then Robin at some point, probably would have learned that his current true love really did murder his wife. And like Emma said to Gold in that season two episode, “Murder is not a good first impression.” I hope Emma sees that what she did wasn’t wrong. But I also think, Regina will approach these obstacles a lot differently than she would have in season one too.
Emma definitely did the right thing in saving Marian, and actually did Regina a favour since that is now one less person whose blood is on Regina’s hands.
I do wonder how OQ is going to progress now. Because of the ridiculously fast progression of it, Robin is going to look like a jerk for leaving Regina for Marian, but at the same time, he’s going to look like a jerk for leaving his wife for what is essentially her murderer. Robin can’t win either way.
None of the other TL couples have had to deal with that sort of obstacle. Both Rumple and Hook have done bad things in their past, but neither have killed a beloved spouse of either Belle or Emma respectively then hooked up with Belle or Emma respectively.
Regina might make Emma feel guilty about saving Marian but that puts Regina in the wrong.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixRegina might make Emma feel guilty about saving Marian but that puts Regina in the wrong.
Umm…when Emma and Hook encountered Past Rumple, he specifically told them to touch nothing else….and bringing someone back who was supposed to die, is definitely messing with fate and destiny, who had brought Robin and Regina together without that whole Marian Death issue, because that never would have come out, and everyone would still be happy.
But bringing back Marian sabotaged destiny’s plans to unite Robin and Regina, thus bringing along with it issues. Which means Emma is going to pay a heavy price for tampering with fate, as Rumple said, All magic comes with a price.
And the answer to the Robin and Regina’s fast progression is simple…they’re the only soulmates, so far confirmed on the show. Soulmates are of an entirely different level than True Loves such as the other couples…a deeper, firmer connection soulmates have than true loves. You can have many true loves, but only one soul mate.
And I don’t believe Regina should be held in the wrong for a naïve act that Emma committed, who just like her mother, never thought once of the consequences of changing the work of fate. Although Snow White has an excuse of being a child, well somewhat of an excuse that’s barely working for her because she still understood what a secret was. But if I put on the scale of whose decision was more foolish….I’d say Emma has the medal for that one, because she is thirty years old, intelligent, and knew better than to change the events of the past.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I can’t disagree with you in theory, WR. Emma was naïve. She did meddle. Magic has a price for Emma. And so does years of hideous criminal behavior without accountability for Regina…even with her mostly redemptive arc. A&E have created quite the dilemma. Is there the same intensity of accountability for meddling to the good with fate??? Dunno.
I was pretty…cringe worthy heart sick with the new triangle angle. I really like Regina and Robin. The quickness of them connecting didn’t bother me a bit. At least SOMEBODY wasn’t plagued by angst! But Marion, well, that’s a classic true love/soul mate icon that I can’t see screwing with either. I have NO idea how A&E are going to get themselves out of this hole. None. Nada, and I am glad it is their problem! Heh. I’ll be a very interested observer this season.
Nothing has been totally sabotaged, yet. Just a massively complicated obstacle has been created(grin) Two wrongs (from Regina in the past and Emma in the present) will not make a right for Outlaw Queen. But it will make it verrrry difficult to be in Robin’s boots!!
Perhaps Elsa will be a Regina ally. Turn Hook into ice (ala Han Solo carbon freezing.) Heh. But maybe not since Hook was highly instrumental in freeing her. And we don’t know yet just how villainess Elsa will be. Besides Emma has magic now, too. She is a novice, but it is there and very powerful especially when someone she loves is threatened. Weaker magic is not Emma’s worst enemy, Emma’s conscience is Emma’s worst enemy. Tsk Tsk, it ain’t gonna be easy.
I still think her protective streak during a Regina semi-melt down will overcome any guilt she will feel.
In regard to the difference between soul mate and true love, in my mind, a soul mate might never actually be a love partner, but true love most assuredly is. I would tend to disagree with the deeper level as well, I think they are equally connected, just different styles of connectivity 🙂 Neither one of them is guaranteed a happy ending though.
***Always in search of a good flock***
I can’t disagree with you in theory, WR. Emma was naïve. She did meddle. Magic has a price for Emma. And so does years of hideous criminal behavior without accountability for Regina…even with her mostly redemptive arc.
I nearly went down the list of the terrible life Regina had, but decided to hold that off till the Regina Discussion Thread comes up. For now I’ll say, if you go back and look at Regina’s life….you will find that Karma never waited years later to screw Regina over, it happened right after she did her own misdeed.
Lest we forget that Regina basically saved the day everyday in S3…so I take it as Karma and Regina being even. And if Regina and Rumple’s life is how Karma likes to pay people back….I dread for the Charmings.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Umm…when Emma and Hook encountered Past Rumple, he specifically told them to touch nothing else….and bringing someone back who was supposed to die, is definitely messing with fate and destiny, who had brought Robin and Regina together without that whole Marian Death issue, because that never would have come out, and everyone would still be happy.
Robin and his son Roland suffered. They maybe have reached a point to move on and find new happiness in life, but it’s not like they not already paid a heavy prize for Regina not embracing her own alleged fate. Regina ran away from it at the tavern, didn’t she, or was that fate too, because, she and Robin weren’t meant to come together yet, not this way, Tinkerbell was tinkering with fate? But does that mean, it was Robin’s fate to meet Marian, do everything to save her life, even get tortured by Rumple, have a son with her only to lose her through Regina, to suffer? Or had he been tinkering with fate, when he got the fairy wand to safe Marian’s life when she was sick, her and Roland’s, because she was pregnant at that time with him, so Robin has a prize to pay now, by making him suffer that Marian is not actually dead ,so that Robin can’t be with his soulmate anymore without feelings of guilt?
And to correct Regina’s choice at the tavern to run away and not meet the guy the fairy dust told she was destined to be with, fate then made Regina execute Marian? Regina is not to blame for anything because it was all fate? Such kind of argument should make any murder happy: Fate made them do it, so no guilt, so no prize to pay, no punishment, we should put fate into prison. And because it eventually might have not come to light otherwise (can’t be sure about that though, can we) it doesn’t matter at all that Regina in the other timeline killed Roland’s mother? I find that logic screwed.
And was it fate, that Cora murdered Daniel, made Regina suffer, and Snow did nothing else than help fate on it’s way, because in the great scheme of things Regina was never meant to be with Daniel, it has always been Robin she was meant to be with? And was it fate that Regina had to suffer this so that she would after doing many terrible things discover deep down in her soul love? I am wondering.
Who says Marian was meant to die? Just because she died in the past nothing says, she was meant to die. As well it could be that fate now corrected its course with Emma saving her life. Arguing with fate is always tricky. Why should be one thing, one act fate but the other not? There is no book we can look it up in if it indeed had been written before, that things had to happen the way they happened.
And the answer to the Robin and Regina’s fast progression is simple…they’re the only soulmates, so far confirmed on the show. Soulmates are of an entirely different level than True Loves such as the other couples…a deeper, firmer connection soulmates have than true loves. You can have many true loves, but only one soul mate.
It was said by the writers, that Cora was Rumple’s soulmate. So following your view, Rumple and Cora had a deeper connection than Rumple ever will have with Belle, who is just one of his many true loves. But why does have true love’s kiss such a power to break curses? Cora couldn’t break Rumple’s Dark One curse with a kiss, but Belle nearly did. If I understand that right, it could mean, that Rumple is meant by fate to be the Dark One, something Cora, being the soulmate with her unique deep connection understood and didn’t try to change, but Belle did not understood Rumple, so she tried to change him, although by now Belle seems to have given into that fate. Which though explains beautifully, why Belle’s kisses now don’t seem to have anymore any affects on the Dark One’s curse.
What are Snow and Charming then, the rare example of soulmate and true love being one and the same? Could explain why in Emma as the product of that rare combination such strong magic is running.
Then was that fake prince though Cora’s soulmate, because there was some very strong magic running in Zelena.
The view, soulmate and true love are not the same has merits, but never sounded to me like the writers truly made a difference so far, they just didn’t want to use the same expression all the time. They probably haven’t given it much thought though, because commonly soulmate and true love is used for the very same concept, the idea, that somewhere in this world there is a human meant to be our partner in life, our “better” half. This image of the half comes from Greek mythology: Humans once were creatures with two heads, four arms and legs, but split up by the gods, who feared the power of those creatures. But then these split up creatures began to suffer terrible death, and the gods took mercy and made it so, that the two halves could reunite in a different physical way. So now we all are driven to find our other half to feel complete again and embrace life fully.
If in the show the concept is indeed a different one, soulmate and true love being different things, fine, just saying that it would show other relationships in a different light as well.
Emma meddled with things, but so did Regina. So did Rumple, so does everybody. They make choices, choices have consequences. That is not fate, that is life.
Think Regina doesn’t need to make Emma feel guilty, Emma is seeing very well for herself, that bringing Marian with her has impact. That Emma sure didn’t do it on purpose doesn’t reduce Emma’s responsibility for changing things. But it wasn’t Emma’s responsibility, that Regina ran away from Robin the first time they had a chance to meet. Regina lashing out at Emma the way she did was not justified, though it was explainable, even as first reaction understandable, but if Regina acts on that first feeling, she will again blame others and make them bear consequences for things she is as much to blame for herself. If Regina truly has grown over the past season, she will not go after Emma, but look for better ways to win her love back than killing his son’s mother. Regina gets now a chance to do things right.
What the writers though were talking about was Emma’s view of things here. Whatever Regina will do, Emma right now feels guilty, finding new love and romance herself (with Hook we can guess, the little detail implied but not noticed by many it seems), while with doing something right, saving a life, she seemed to have taken away Regina’s chance for new love. Emma wouldn’t be Emma if not feeling bad about it. And being her mother’s daughter eventually Emma might try to help Regina to find happiness nevertheless and thus make things maybe even only worse for a while. Emma will pay a prize for what she did, I have no worries about that.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
Umm…when Emma and Hook encountered Past Rumple, he specifically told them to touch nothing else….and bringing someone back who was supposed to die, is definitely messing with fate and destiny, who had brought Robin and Regina together without that whole Marian Death issue, because that never would have come out, and everyone would still be happy.
Robin and his son Roland suffered. They maybe have reached a point to move on and find new happiness in life, but it’s not like they not already paid a heavy prize for Regina not embracing her own alleged fate. Regina ran away from it at the tavern, didn’t she, or was that fate too, because, she and Robin weren’t meant to come together yet, not this way, Tinkerbell was tinkering with fate? But does that mean it was Robin’s fate to meet Marian, do everything to save her life even get tortured by Rumple, have a son with her only to lose her through Regina, to suffer? Or had he been tinkering with fate when he got the fairy wand to safe Marian’s life when she was sick, her and Roland’s because she was pregnant at that time with him, so Robin has a prize to pay now, by making him suffer that Marian is not actually dead so that Robin can’t be with his soulmate anymore without feelings of guilt? And to correct Regina’s choice at the tavern to run away and not meet the guy the fairy dust told she was destined to be with, fate then made Regina execute Marian? Regina is not to blame for anything because it was all fate? Such kind of argument should make any murder happy: Fate made them do it, so no guilt, so no prize to pay, no punishment, we should put fate into prison. And because it eventually might have not come to light otherwise (can’t be sure about that though, can we) it doesn’t matter at all that Regina in the other timeline killed Roland’s mother? I find that logic screwed. And was it fate, that Cora murdered Daniel, made Regina suffer, and Snow did nothing else than help fate on it’s way, because in the great scheme of things Regina was never meant to be with Daniel, it has always been Robin she was meant to be with? And was it fate that Regina had to suffer this so that she would after doing many terrible things discover deep down in her soul love? I am wondering. Who says Marian was meant to die? Just because she died in the past nothing says, she was meant to die. As well it could be that fate now corrected its course with Emma saving her life. Arguing with fate is always tricky. Why should be one thing, one act fate but the other not? There is no book we can look it up in if it indeed had been written before, that things had to happen the way they happened.
And the answer to the Robin and Regina’s fast progression is simple…they’re the only soulmates, so far confirmed on the show. Soulmates are of an entirely different level than True Loves such as the other couples…a deeper, firmer connection soulmates have than true loves. You can have many true loves, but only one soul mate.
It was said by the writers, that Cora was Rumple’s soulmate. So following your view, Rumple and Cora had a deeper connection than Rumple ever will have with Belle, who is just one of his many true loves. But why does have true love’s kiss such a power to break curses? Cora couldn’t break Rumple’s Dark One curse with a kiss, but Belle nearly did. If I understand that right, it could mean, that Rumple is meant by fate to be the Dark One, something Cora, being the soulmate then with her unique deep connection understood and didn’t try to change, but Belle did not understood Rumple, so she tried to change him, although by now she seem to have given into that fate. Which though explains beautifully, why Belle’s kisses now don’t have to seem anymore any affects on the Dark One’s curse. What are Snow and Charming then, the rare example of soulmate and true love being one and the same? Could explain why in Emma as the product of that rare combination such strong magic is running. Then was that fake prince though Cora’s soulmate, because there was some very strong magic running in Zelena. The view, soulmate and true love are not the same has merits, but never sounded to me like the writers truly made a difference so far, they just didn’t want to use the same expression all the time. They probably haven’t given it much thought though, because commonly soulmate and true love is used for the very same concept, the idea, that somewhere in this world there is a human meant to be our partner in life, our “better” half. This image of the half comes from Greek mythology: Humans once were creatures with two heads, four arms and legs, but split up by the gods, who feared the power of those creatures. But then these split up creatures began to suffer terrible death, and the gods took mercy and made it so, that the two halves could reunite in a different physical way. So now we all are driven to find our other half to feel complete again and embrace life fully. It is that idea that made it’s way into Christian philosophy supporting in the High Middle Ages the ideas of courtly love, as expressed in Minnesang, which then later became the model for the idea of true love. If in the show the concept is indeed a different one, soulmate and true love being different things, fine, just saying that it would show other relationships in a different light as well. Emma meddled with things, but so did Regina. So did Rumple, so does everybody. They make choices, choices have consequences. That is not fate, that is life. Think Regina doesn’t need to make Emma feel guilty, Emma is seeing very well for herself, that bringing Marian with her has impact. That Emma sure didn’t do it on purpose doesn’t reduce Emma’s responsibility for changing things. But it wasn’t Emma’s responsibility, that Regina ran away from Robin the first time they had a chance to meet. Regina lashing out at Emma the way she did was not justified, explainable, even as first reaction understandable, but if Regina acts on that first feeling she will again blame others and make them bear consequences for things she is as much to blame for herself. If Regina truly has grown over the past season, she will not go after Emma, but look for better ways to win her love back then killing his son’s mother. Regina gets now a chance to do things right. What the writers though were talking about was Emma’s view of things here. Whatever Regina will do, Emma right now feels guilty, finding new love and romance herself (with Hook we can guess, the little detail implied but not noticed by many it seems), while with doing something right, saving a life, she seemed to have taken away Regina’s chance for new love. Emma wouldn’t be Emma if not feeling bad about it. And being her mother’s daughter eventually Emma might try to help Regina to find happiness nevertheless and thus make things maybe even only worse for a while. Emma will pay a prize for what she did, I have no worries about that.
Wow….that’s so much info that I have to respond to, so I’ll just go with the highlights here.
Let’s start this off…Fate runs in many mysterious ways. Robin and Regina are soul mates, that was something Tinkerbelle did not make happen, she just revealed to Regina who her soul mate was. From birth Robin and Regina were soul mates….the end. Daniel was not Regina’s soul mate, neither was Marian Robin’s….period point blank. Daniel and Marian may have been their true loves, which you can have many, but only one soul mate.
Regina killing Marian, well….Fate can sometimes be a bad (beep). Do most OQ believe it was Marian’s fate to die…sadly, absolutely! A balance had to be met, and Marian being the third wheel was not something fate wanted. Was it Daniel’s fate to die by Cora’s hand, possibly…would he have died anyway, absolutely. If you’d take the time to think about it…before Regina even met Marian, this woman was on her death bed, and pregnant. Death was fighting hard to take Marian out of the equation, but Robin went to Rumple, and intervened with it, thus giving Marian a good two or three more years to live. But when Fate wanted Marian out, it wanted her out, no matter how it happened. It was just a twist that Regina was the one who killed her, hence Fate being a bad (beep).
Let’s see here…what else, oh right the whole suffering thing. Well, as we all know, Regina not going into that Tavern ruined not only her life but Robin’s….hence the Soulmate connection they share. Even one choice still affects the other, knowingly or not. He was stuck with an always sick wife, and she became the Evil Queen. And Emma saving Marian was tampering with Fate, not correcting it because Emma is the one who went back to the past and brought someone back with her. Even Rumple said Emma was tampering with Fate, as what happened in the past is what was supposed to happen. Regina, herself screwed with fate by not going into that Tavern, and you see how Fate returns the favor, but even still it tries to balance things out by bringing Robin Hood into Regina’s picture.
Until said otherwise, Regina and Robin Hood are the only SoulMate Couple on the show….and the others are True Loves. As for the Rumple and Cora, Adam and Eddy never said the word soulmate, they said the word Kindred Spirit. And as much of a Rumbelle Shipper I am…I will admit that Cora and Rumple had just a tad bit more fire. I don’t know why, but they’re heated kisses compared to Rumbelle’s innocent…hmm…now that Rumbelle is married, I think they’re going to get a bit more heated. (Come on Belle, call on that inner Lacey!) 😛
As for Emma’s guilt…well! C’mon, she’s just like her mother only worse. Snow White had that “Excuse” (rolls eyes) that she was a child, Emma is 30, and very intelligent! She should have known to touch nothing, as Hook persuaded her to do! No matter how anyone twists this story, it is Emma’s fault that Outlaw Queen is experiencing some difficulties in S4, and it’s only going to hurt worse when Marian discovers that Robin Hood is no longer the same man that she married.
(C’mon….Marian’s been dead for about 33 years, Robin has been a single father, and experienced the soul mate type of love….he’s not the same man he was when she died.) So in a way….Robin and Marian will experience just as much issues as Outlaw Queen, and leaving it in Fate’s hands to right Emma’s wrong, I think we all know whose going to win in the end.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
The topic ‘TV Line – June 12, 2014 (Emma's guilt)’ is closed to new replies.