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Maybe ideas for certain events, stories or relationships exist out there in the ether? These ideas, or memes, could manifest via an author creating a work of fiction or, if they’re strong enough, as reality itself via the birth of a person or an event. The manifestation would depend on circumstances and the power of the idea. This would eliminate the need for a causal link between the fiction and the reality. One idea might also have several manifestations under certain circumstances, so it could exist both in reality and in multiple versions of a similar story. Some ideas might come into existence with fully formed endings, whereas some may have undecided endings.
I know this is all wild and very vague and raises a lot of questions. It’s the best explanation I can come up. I really don’t think there’s any way to resolve this without an explanation that’s highly mystical, because it touches on the question of where stories come from.
[adrotate group="5"]I know this is all wild and very vague and raises a lot of questions. It’s the best explanation I can come up. I really don’t think there’s any way to resolve this without an explanation that’s highly mystical, because it touches on the question of where stories come from.
I like the meme idea, though how does one determine a story’s potency, and who is doing the determining? I suppose that, following up on the meme concept, it could be simply be a story’s “contagiousness.” But if there are multiple versions of each story, don’t we get into the possibility of multiple versions of each character, and a kind of multiplication of parallel universes at points of bifurcation?
if they’re strong enough, as reality itself via the birth of a person or an event
I really like this idea in particular, but I’m not so sure A and E have that much understanding of philosophy or big heady ideas in general. I suspect the questions we have about the nature of reality, fiction, ect will never be answered outside of “magic!”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I know this is all wild and very vague and raises a lot of questions. It’s the best explanation I can come up. I really don’t think there’s any way to resolve this without an explanation that’s highly mystical, because it touches on the question of where stories come from.
I like the meme idea, though how does one determine a story’s potency, and who is doing the determining? I suppose that, following up on the meme concept, it could be simply be a story’s “contagiousness.” But if there are multiple versions of each story, don’t we get into the possibility of multiple versions of each character, and a kind of multiplication of parallel universes at points of bifurcation?
Yep. And, somehow, we’ve switched universes.
I really like this idea in particular, but I’m not so sure A and E have that much understanding of philosophy or big heady ideas in general. I suspect the questions we have about the nature of reality, fiction, ect will never be answered outside of “magic!”
I think Adam and Eddy are honestly heavily relying on the willing suspension of disbelief, which is a plot mechanic which means “a willingness to suspend one’s critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment.” It’s been around for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief
I really like this idea in particular, but I’m not so sure A and E have that much understanding of philosophy or big heady ideas in general. I suspect the questions we have about the nature of reality, fiction, ect will never be answered outside of “magic!”
I think Adam and Eddy are honestly heavily relying on the willing suspension of disbelief, which is a plot mechanic which means “a willingness to suspend one’s critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment.” It’s been around for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief
I know the mechanic and for a lot of things I am willing to do it (like, being able to put a baby into a tree and have it transport realms) because it’s part of the mythology of the story (magic exists and this tree and this child are important). But stuff that would add to their world and clarify their world I shouldn’t have to suspend for. I mean, the ideas @sciencevsmagic proposed are quite interesting and would add a certain fleshed out feeling to the ONCEiverse. It would spark good thought provoking conversations.
And, y’know, at what point is “suspension of disbelief” really code/a euphemism for “stop critically analyzing and engaging with the text, sheeple”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I know the mechanic and for a lot of things I am willing to do it (like, being able to put a baby into a tree and have it transport realms) because it’s part of the mythology of the story (magic exists and this tree and this child are important). But stuff that would add to their world and clarify their world I shouldn’t have to suspend for. I mean, the ideas @sciencevsmagic proposed are quite interesting and would add a certain fleshed out feeling to the ONCEiverse. It would spark good thought provoking conversations.
And, y’know, at what point is “suspension of disbelief” really code/a euphemism for “stop critically analyzing and engaging with the text, sheeple”
Not saying I agree with it, and I’m all for getting legit deep world building. Suspension of disbelief shouldn’t be used as an excuse for sloppy writing. I just suspect that’s Adam and Eddy’s current mindset. I’d love to be proven wrong by them.
The worst part is that the writing is inconsistent unto itself. They will write one thing and then later contradict themselves with something else. The characters behavior even contradicts itself. It is really bad.
how does one determine a story’s potency, and who is doing the determining?
This is where the mystical aspect comes in. To accept this theory, you’d have to treat memes as part of the fundamental constitutients of the universe. So, they would simply exist with certain properties, the way an electron simply has a negative charge. Or, to make it more complex, the potency of a meme could be related to how much potential it has to change the world. We’ve all heard the saying about ideas “whose time has come”. Contagiousness, which you mention, is part of traditional meme theory, so that is yet another possible explanation.
But if there are multiple versions of each story, don’t we get into the possibility of multiple versions of each character, and a kind of multiplication of parallel universes at points of bifurcation?
Yes, this would happen. But if you think of memes as kind of like blueprints or archetypes, then it follows that they could have multiple expressions. Here’s an example. A Snow White meme would be about a girl with snow white skin whose stepmother hates her and wants to kill her and who teams up with seven dwarves and falls in love with a handsome prince. This meme could manifest in many, many different story versions and even real life sitations. All of these versions and even people could coexist, because, why not? In one version, Snow might kill her stepmother, whereas in another, she might befriend her. It wouldn’t matter, because this meme doesn’t have an ending, so its manifestations could play out in different ways.
I don’t know if any of this makes sense. I’m treating it as an intellectual exercise to try and answer some of the questions about the OUAT universe. Just to clarify – I don’t believe A & E are actually thinking along these lines. It’s just the theory I would have presented if I’d been in their place.
I don’t know if any of this makes sense. I’m treating it as an intellectual exercise to try and answer some of the questions about the OUAT universe. Just to clarify – I don’t believe A & E are actually thinking along these lines. It’s just the theory I would have presented if I’d been in their place.
I can totally get on board with the intellectual exercise idea. Btw I love the concept of potency as potential for change, rather than just, say, circulation or facility of uptake (“contagiousness”). It could even be brought back to your second point, that there would be multiple iterations of each story that play themselves out in different ways, and perhaps create different realms. So one realm would know the Snow White story as a kind of Oedipal/Electra myth (the one where she kills the stepmother) — and be somehow shaped by that “interpretation” of the story. Another would be one where Snow White forgives the Evil Queen etc.
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