Ursula: A Villain?

[RumplesGirl]

So, I actually posed this question in the fav/least fav thread but I think it deserves a thread of it’s own.

We are unlikely to get another Ursula backstory. Her history with Hook and her father clearly makes her a victim and not a villain in any way, shape or form. The flashback ends before we ever see any villainy So what did she do that was so bad that she can be a villain and a Queen of Darkness???

[TheWatcher]

Perhaps, like the Disney Ursula, she was trying to take control of the seas from the Sea King, Poseidon. She seems to say as much in the final flashback when she said “Now its you who should fear me” and “The sea will obey my every whim” or something along those lines. I have to wonder though, as I did with Maleficent after we saw her backstory episode, what the heck did Ursula want the Gauntlet for? What enemy does she need to find their weakness for to gain her happy ending? Was it Hook? Or was it Poseidon? Before this episode, since she told Maleficent to call her Your Majesty, I would have said she killed Poseidon and took over the seas and thus was a villain hiding under the guise of benevolent goddess. But…nope… Maybe she’s a cannibal. I’m not kidding. The scene from Heroes and Villains between her and Rump still has me thinking she is or was a cannibal. I mean, it really sounds like Rump was throwing shade.

Her history with Hook and her father clearly makes her a victim and not a villain in any way, shape or form

And I am honestly getting super sick of this. They should just have all the villains come wearing a T-Shirt that says “It’s Not My Fault. I’m A Victim. #FamilyIssues” Look, I like seeing backstories, and character history and all that, but please OUAT, give this a rest.

"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC

[Phee]

Yeah I’d wondered about this too. They’re just leaving us to assume that an angry teen with ALL TEH POWERZ to control the sea got up to SRS shenanigans that made her a villain. But considering that we don’t see any of that, and that really the worst thing we’ve seen her do is be used by Rumple to get the Curse, and be a backup meangirl so she can be buddies with the main meangirl…Ursula just comes across as a weak minded victim, not someone worthy of the title “Queen of Daaaaarrrrkneeesssss”. I quite liked her backstory, but as a “villain” she’s a bit of a FAIL.

[MatthewPaul]

Pretty much what Watcher said. However, I think it’s important to add what Ariel said in this episode, about villains going about the wrong methods trying to obtain their happy endings. After Ursula lost her singing voice (the last reminder of her mother), she took her anger out in the form of becoming a power hungry monster of the sea. She rebelled against her father, and used his trident to transform herself without his consent. The way she said she wanted to be “exactly” like the Goddess Ursula makes me think she wanted to use the Goddess’ identity to her advantage to strike fear in the oceans. Then of course, when she joined up with the Queens of Darkness, she went along with their various plans in hopes that she could regain her happy ending.

Overall, it comes down to the choices these characters make. Rumple became the Dark One to save his son. Regina wanted to kill Snow for Daniel’s death. Cora grew up as the daughter of a poor miller and resorted to extreme methods of obtaining power. Hook became a pirate after Liam died and would later seek revenge on Rumple for killing Milah. Pan/Malcolm apparently had a crappy childhood working for a blacksmith, and gave into temptation to become a child again forever at the cost of giving up his son. Zelena was fueled with jealousy over her sister as a result of being abandoned by Cora. Ingrid…uhm…got imprisoned by Gerda in the urn after accidentally killing Helga, and went to extreme measures to find replacement “sisters” who are magical just like her (Oh, and blonde hair and blue eyes. Having darker hair like Gerda and Anna makes you bad!). Their lives sucked, but they went about trying to fix them the wrong way, and that’s what ultimately screwed them over.

I think with Ursula, it’s mainly that we never got to see her wrong doings prior to joining the Queens of Darkness. Ursula’s been around for at least 200 years. A lot could have happened during that time frame. It’s a shame she was mostly reduced to a mere sidekick, with Maleficent getting the most attention out of the three. I think Cruella will be similarly underdeveloped, though at least she’s sticking around in present day SB longer than Ursula is. I appreciate that Ursula at least had an enjoyable backstory episode, but more definitely could have been done with her. Anyway, here’s the direct quote from her transformation scene for context:

“Don’t you understand? My singing was the only thing keeping mother’s spirit alive. And now she’s gone forever. You wanted me to choose a side? Well father, I’m choosing one. Mine! All you ever wanted was for me to remain your precious little mermaid. Well I’m not gonna be that anymore. In fact, I’m not gonna be a mermaid at all. You named me Ursula after the Sea Goddess of old. Legend says she was strong and powerful. Well that’s exactly what I want to be! Now I’m even more powerful than you, and the whole Sea will be at the mercy of my every whim. You don’t need to protect me, father. You need to fear me.”

[RumplesGirl]

After Ursula lost her singing voice (the last reminder of her mother), she took her anger out in the form of becoming a power hungry monster of the sea. She rebelled against her father, and used his trident to transform herself without his consent.

I get all this and it’s well reasoned. The issues is that saying you are going to do X does not automatically equate to doing X. For every other villain–Cora, Rumple, Regina, Hook, Pan, Ingrid, Zelena, Mal, and probably eventually Cruella–we’ve seen (will see with Cruella, I think) them do *something* that was bad/morally wrong–rip out hearts, murder, abandon their children, chose their own selfish desires over their loves ones, assault, more murder, baby powered time travel, sleeping curses. Something that puts them lock stock and barrel in the category of villain. Ursula gave herself tentacles and then proclaimed that she was more powerful than her father and that he should fear her. I mean, it’s the equivalent of a moody teenager being put off, getting a tattoo and declaring to their parents that they refuse to kowtow to them or society, *rock and roll hand signal and Nirvana music here*

Just because you say that you’re now super powerful and the ocean will obey your every whim, doesn’t mean it actually comes to pass. Obviously she must have done something but…what? Did she take her father’s kingdom? Did she kill humans? Did she enslave Shark-Kind? Saying you’re a villain (or hero!) is one thing, but you heroes and villains are defined by their actions. None of her actions put her in villain territory, not even her moments with the QoD of the past thus far since all she’s done is use her tentacles to retrieve an object (and I guess choke Belle but does that really qualify you as a Queen of Darkness?)

I think Cruella will be similarly underdeveloped, though at least she’s sticking around in present day SB longer than Ursula is

You shush your mouth. I am honestly enjoying her. Don’t take this from me!

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[ry4christ]

Her history with Hook and her father clearly makes her a victim and not a villain in any way, shape or form. The flashback ends before we ever see any villainy So what did she do that was so bad that she can be a villain and a Queen of Darkness???

Yeah, she definitely isn’t anywhere near the level of evil as most of OUAT’s villains, but I think this show has kind of caused us to let “the little evil things” slide. She did still choke Belle, assist in the kidnapping of a child, and try to kill Hook. But yes, she definitely is the lightest “Queen of Darkness” Lol.

[TheWatcher]

Ursula also wanted to strangle Snow and Charming to death just because her “Tenatacles were bored”. Assuming she was being serious, we can at least assume she kills people regularly enough to be completely casual about it.

"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC

[PanTheMan]

MatthewPaul wrote:

I think Cruella will be similarly underdeveloped, though at least she’s sticking around in present day SB longer than Ursula is

You shush your mouth. I am honestly enjoying her. Don’t take this from me!

Quote

I have faith that Cruella will be more developed than Ursula. Even villains need a weak link, and it made sense for it to be Ursula, I think. However, Cruella will deliver on that evil. They’ve been planning Cruella for several seasons now, so I think her backstory will be one of the best this season. They have too much fun with the character for it not to be.

[TheWatcher]

Even villains need a weak link, and it made since for it to be Ursula, I think.

I’d say Cruella would make the most sense as the “weak” link. Ursula from her source material was a witch. In OUAT canon, before she was introduced, she was a goddess. Cruella is/was just a fashion junkie. When it comes to these 3, I wouldn’t say it makes sense at all for Ursula to be given the short end of the tentacle.

"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC

[PanTheMan]

When you consider how they meshed Ursula’s story with the original The Little Mermaid, then it does make some sense.

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