Was Rumple a Lost Boy? (spoilers!)

[schaendlich]

Now I’m hoping that the doll’s  owner isn’t revealed at all and the doll’s meaning is never explained. I think it would haunt me more if he just walks back to the others, doll in hand, looking shaken. It would just creep me out. I’d wonder what the heck the doll even was and what the horrible event was that made Rumple drop to his knees and sob like the frightened children of Neverland (mentioned by Wendy).  A and E always say that Peter is bad news, so now to leave the meaning behind Felix’s taunt a mystery would give much more of an impact. OUAT sometimes (to me at least) “over clues”.  It would be nice and ominous for this doll to be open to mean anything at all.

 

Other than that, I believe that Rumpel could most possibly have been a Lost Boy. A and E have said multiple times that Neverland is a place to confront the past before they can move on to the future. So honestly, I can’t see this “confrontation” being completely about Bae once again. I’d rather believe that he had been a Lost Boy, therefore had been in Neverland once as a child, once to find Bae, and now.

I would feel that the plot could go in more directions if it wasn’t the standard “Rumpel has screwed up once again because he screwed someone over while putting together a master plan to get Bae.” That arc of showing how Rumpel  found Bae ended with Cora’s death. Cora literally brought Regina, the curse caster,  into existence. Rather, as a big finale to the Rumpel and Son arc, I would like to find that somehow, by associating with Peter Pan, before Bae even existed, he had cursed his and his son’s life from the very beginning. Think about. Maybe the shadow happening upon Bae was no accident at all. That would give PP much more ammo with which to torture Rumpel and could also hint at PP being the master manipulator. That could go in a few good directions.

Also, it could be that realization that caused Rumpel to cry if it was his doll as a LB.  *shrugs*

[Phee]

So true!
Your simple description (PP wants Rumple to cast the curse; no curse=no Henry) opens up a world of possibilities. That small tidbit could change everything we thought we knew about everyone.

Seeing Henry in that pic totally flipped the whole point of this show on its head.

Other than that, I believe that Rumpel could most possibly have been a Lost Boy. A and E have said multiple times that Neverland is a place to confront the past before they can move on to the future. So honestly, I can’t see this “confrontation” being completely about Bae once again. I’d rather believe that he had been a Lost Boy, therefore had been in Neverland once as a child, once to find Bae, and now.

I’m not convinced he went there searching for Bae, but YES to everything else you said there. If they’re making these characters confront and evaluate who they truly are, then showing Rumple have to reflect on his whole life, all the way back to his childhood, before he was corrupted in any way, is a must IMO. We’ve seen backstory on the youth of Snow, Emma, and Regina. They’ve said we’ll be seeing more of Charming’s past, and we’re gonna start delving into Hook’s youth in 305. They can’t leave Rumple out if all the rest will be dealing with this sort of stuff.

I would feel that the plot could go in more directions if it wasn’t the standard “Rumpel has screwed up once again because he screwed someone over while putting together a master plan to get Bae.” That arc of showing how Rumpel found Bae ended with Cora’s death. Cora literally brought Regina, the curse caster, into existence. Rather, as a big finale to the Rumpel and Son arc, I would like to find that somehow, by associating with Peter Pan, before Bae even existed, he had cursed his and his son’s life from the very beginning.

Agreed. These are major arcs for the overall mythology of the show, but if they’re not concluded at some point, it’ll just drag the show down.

What you say about the arc of Rumple finding Bae being concluded with Cora’s death is a good point. The bulk of the first 2 seasons was discovering bits and pieces about Rumple’s manipulations that led to the Curse happening so he could get to where Bae was. Regina was a vital part of that, and Rumple got involved with Cora in the first place because he knew her child was gonna help him cast his Curse. That’s all been dealt with now, right down to Rumple and Cora’s association being concluded with her death. We don’t need to see any more of Rumple manipulating Regina, or anyone else, to help him cast the Curse and get to Bae.

If the Dark One is about to be undone in the near future, we need to see how it began. Same story structure as Cora dying after we’d seen how her part in Rumple’s story began.

The next phase in Rumple and Bae’s story is us learning exactly how and why they were torn apart in the first place so they can fully understand it themselves. We know it was the Dark One who came between them, but was it just bad luck that the Dark One came to Rumple? On a show that talks about fate and destiny, I doubt it. If they show us a reason for it, show how the cycle of destruction began, that will allow them to bring it full circle and have Rumple and Bae actually understand why their relationship was so screwed, which they need to be able to do if they’re gonna be able to make peace with each other. Making it a story about how their fate was doomed even before Bae was conceived, because Rumple had a run in with PP, would provide for some EPIC tragedy to conclude this arc of the show while they’re in NL.

I’m not suggesting they’ll instantly be happy, friendly, BFFs, there’s still gotta be some drama and tension, but I think that revealing the WHY of it all is important if the characters and storylines will be able to progress in a satisfying way. If we’re gonna move on to adventures in Oz in the future, it’s pointless to have the finer points of how Rumple and Bae became estranged still unresolved and dangling in the wind. That particular story arc needs to be wrapped up.

[schaendlich]

Agreed. These are major arcs for the overall mythology of the show, but if they’re not concluded at some point, it’ll just drag the show down.

Oh thank goodness. I thought for a bit that I was one of one persons who believed that this arc should be over. I’m not saying that they should make Rumpel irrelevant, I’m just saying that:

1. He’s lived for hundreds of years and I’m sure they haven’t covered that much time.

2. It’s time to make him relevant in the present, more as a character in the plot and less as a character who has caused the plot.

I’m not convinced he went there searching for Bae…

Agreed, neither am I. I just wrote that possibility because in my gut, I feel that the writers have it that he does (even though it would make little sense to me). So, I’m saying that I’d rather have the portion that I want to be there with the portion that I feel is already there, than not have it at all.

On the subject of him finding Bae, I’d consider it also an EPIC tragedy (and better) if he had never gone to save Bae at all. I would like it if he never even knew that Bae had been on the island. I imagine that he could have found some other way to get to Neverland that would have gotten him there quicker (possibly within a couple years) than to a world with no magic. I think that it would tear Rumpel apart to find that he had spent the majority of his time getting to a world that wouldn’t even be relevant for centuries.

Wow, I know that some Rumpel fans would not like all of this tragedy, but I honestly want Rumpel to snap. I want him to go bonkers and not even care, but then, through his own strength (not Belle’s, not Bae’s) come back to his senses and get Henry. I really want to see him lose himself more then he ever has, but then overcome himself as he never has. 😀

Making it a story about how their fate was doomed even before Bae was conceived, because Rumple had a run in with PP, would provide for some EPIC tragedy to conclude this arc of the show while they’re in NL.

Yes, yes, yes. 🙂 That’s what I’ve always wanted. Rumpel is a man who was manipulated and turned into the manipulator. It would add a little of poetic irony if it turned out to be that Rumpel was never the true manipulator at all, but rather under the illusion that he was. Ever since I heard that Fate played a key part in his backstory, I new that this had to end with the realization that he never really had any control, but had been put on a set road from the very beginning by a force (possibly PP) far more powerful than him.

[kpercyman]

I have to believe just from some of what Rumple has said is that they have more of a history than just searching for curse ingredients.  “Someone that we should all fear, Always been an enemy of mine.”  This words were not spoken for just any reason they are clues that PP and Rumple have known each other for a long, long time.  Like I tell my students, words are not just written to be there they serve a purpose.  It is up to us to make sure our purpose is heard/seen through the words we choose.

I am still on the Rumple and PP brothers kick or knew each other as children.

[darkones1fan]

Anyone think that perhaps Rumpelstiltskin has been planning this final conflict with Pan for centuries. Perhaps at first him casting the curse was to find his son but as time went on as things happened, he started to remember Pan and reminded himself he had to prepare for his interference and foresaw a final confrontation between the two.  It is quite possible that he foresaw himself gaining allies against Pan after the curse was cast who could aid him against Pan and that’s one reason he’s been manipulating all these people and events and getting people to a certain point. Now this theory only works depending on how much Rumpelstiltskin saw of the future (One problem is that he was genuinely surprised that Henry was his Grandson) .  It could be possible that during much of his Dark One Career he’s just been avoiding Pan because Rumpels a coward, either that or he didn’t care. But I’ve always loved the idea of grand plans that have going on for hundreds of years just like the curse but when you plan for something for hundreds of years sometimes secondary goals emerge that might change the reason why you are doing what you are doing .

 

Pan could have been doing the same, Manipulating his own people to a certain point. I would put good money on the guess that Pan (Or his forces) not August was responsible for bringing Henry to Storybrooke, I also wouldn’t put it past him for Pan to be spying on Emma during her youth.

 

This is one reason why I wouldn’t mind making Pan and Rumpel brothers both trying to out do the other trying to see who’s the strongest

[Slurpeez]

A spirited sibling rivalry would be interesting indeed. I feel that while Rumple is a master manipulator of events surrounding the orchestration of the dark curse that Peter Pan could be the ultimate puppet master.

One reason for thinking so, as Darkonesfan wrote, is the mystery of how Mr. Gold procured Henry, seeing as Mr. Gold didn’t have his FTL memories until Emma arrived in SB. Could PP have been pulling the strings, so to speak, by influencing August, a puppet, to take baby Henry to SB? Is that how Regina adopted the Savior’s son? Otherwise, it seems like too big a coincidence.

Also, when it comes to Baelfire meeting Emma, I do think they met for a reason, and that reason was Henry. He was the “something good” that came out of their love for one another. Yet, I don’t think it was merely fate which orchestrated their meeting. I think it was Peter Pan who, upon realzing that Baelfire would be the father of Henry, let Bae return to Earth at the exact time when Emma was just old enough to get pregnant and give birth to Henry.

The dark curse itself seems to have originated in NL. Time was frozen for 28 years in SB and in the EF just as time is frozen in Neverland. No one aged during the curse, just as no one in Neverland ever grows old. Finally, no one could leave SB just as no one who sets foot on Neverland can leave without PP willing it.

Also, as we discovered in 2×22, the Home Office’s real purpose in activating the failsafe was to isolate Henry, kidnap him and take him to Peter Pan. Peter Pan has been searching for Henry for centuries, way before he was ever born. This could signify that Peter Pan conned Rumplestiltksin into casting the dark curse in the first place, all because Peter Pan has long seen how important “the boy” aka Henry would be. Now that Henry is in Neverland, we’ll soon discover the reason. It’s probably that Henry is the Truest Believer, and Peter needs his heart to fuel imagination, which is what NL runs on.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[PriceofMagic]

I don’t think PP is the ultimate puppet master for the reason that if he is behind everything, then the villain for next season will not be that big of a threat. I would like to see PP playing his part in the grand scheme of things.

Also since we know that a little bit of everyone’s true selves remained in their cursed selves, could that be the reason why Gold chose Henry. He just had a feeling that this would be the boy to get, Rumple could see the future so maybe that ability played a part in choosing Henry.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[darkones1fan]

I don’t think PP is the ultimate puppet master for the reason that if he is behind everything, then the villain for next season will not be that big of a threat. I would like to see PP playing his part in the grand scheme of things. Also since we know that a little bit of everyone’s true selves remained in their cursed selves, could that be the reason why Gold chose Henry. He just had a feeling that this would be the boy to get, Rumple could see the future so maybe that ability played a part in choosing Henry.

 

I would like to see that as well, for the same reason. For me I want the Ultimate Evil to be some sort of Devil Creature who is original dark one who is trying to resurrect himself or something but now I’m just speculating here.

 

But if Rumpel and Pan are brothers there are a few things that would make the relationship interesting. I would like it of Rumpel were the younger wimpy Brother and Pan be the strong confident cocky brother. (Fits well with  the character and that’s probably likely they’ll do that if they make these two brothers.) But it would be interesting if Pan went to Neverland first (With or Without Rumpel) and learned about the Dark One’s Powers when he was younger and had a desire to claim them (It is possible he learned about these powers from a even darker force, who’s manipulating things), while Rumpel didn’t (Only because it seems to indicate Rumpel knew nothing about the Dark One until he met him) This would allow Pan to Discover years later that his brother Rumpel (again speculating if they are brothers) was now the Dark One, causing Pan to be jealous  because he was searching for those powers while Rumpel came across them through luck or chance (Or Destiny.) Causing Pan to go full revenge mode and Plan to take those powers for himself.

[Author]

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