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Not really Rumble could have meet Felix else where or Regina could have told him when she returned from NL or the Mermaid could have told Rumble about everything or in that fact TB.
[adrotate group="5"]1) From that scene at D23 yesterday which we’ve now read about many many many times, including a blow by blow, Rumple has obviously been to NL before. He and Felix know each other, and Felix knows him as the Dark One. He calls him that. PP and Rumple have history, which implies they know each other. Now PP could have visited FTL, sure, but given that PP is tied to NL and the time difference being thrown around and the whole “not wanting to grow up” thing, it’s far more likely that Rumple went to NL, which again, was demonstarted by that scene.
2)Like I said before, I’m fine with the doll belonging to either of them at this point. But because we assume Bae did not go to NL with the doll, it was made in NL and if that is the case, we do not know how Rumple would know that it was Bae’s.
I agree that it’s most likely the case that Rumple has been to NL before. He obviously has a history with PP and with Felix. Rather than going to NL as a child, however, I think Rumple could have been there as an adult, (sometime in between losing his son the first time and before the casting of the Curse). If so, then it’s possible that Rumple’s first time in NL overlapped with the time Bae spent there. Remember, in 2×14, Mr. Gold even said his son had been running from him for a long time. That implies that Rumple had been tracking Bae’s whereabouts. Then it’s likely that Bae was in hiding from his dad and/or that PP was keeping knowledge of Bae’s whereabouts a secret from Rumple, since PP has long had plans for Henry, even before his birth. I also think the doll originated in NL. As I wrote a few pages back, if the doll is a replica of Baelfire (matching blue coats), then PP could’ve shown the doll to Rumple back before the curse was cast and allowed Rumple to assume the worst (i.e. that Bae had been tortured, escaped, killed, etc…).
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I’m not sure the doll is Bae’s (or that it’s a doll OF Bae). In the clip doesn’t Felix say something like “the things we haven’t thought about in years can still make us cry”? That implies that the doll is related to something that happened long ago (that we might not know about yet) and that hasn’t been thought about in a long time. Rumple has thought about Bae and all things related to Bae probably on a daily basis for the past 300 years. The doll is supposed to represent something from long ago that Rumple has pushed from his mind (for whatever reason). The same would go for Belle, I know a theory is that the doll is related to her as well, but Bae and Belle are people who have always been on his mind. I think the doll represents a person and/or event that happened that Rumple has repressed/forgotten.
Plus, I think we all feel like we know who Rumple is by now so it would be cool if there’s yet another chapter of his life we don’t know about (the man IS 300+ years old lol). Idk if he’s been a lost boy though cause we already know he was raised by spinsters.
That’s why I think the doll may have something to do with Rumple’s mother. It obviously held some very deep meaning for Rumple and it has to do with something Rumple hasn’t thought about in years.
Just a thought, what if whilst Rumple was at the spinsters, he met a little girl who became like a little sister to him. They’d look out for each other but one day something happens to the little girl and Rumple feels like its his fault he didn’t protect her.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixRather than going to NL as a child, however, I think Rumple could have been there as an adult, (sometime in between losing his son the first time and before the casting of the Curse)
I agree that he has been to NL some point during this (rather long) time frame because Felix calls him the Dark One, meaning Felix has to know Rumple AFTER he lost Bae. But that doesn’t mean Rumple wasn’t there before then. What if Rumple was trying to get the bean from Smee to go to NL and recruit PP’s help in finding his son. After all, it’s what PP does: he finds lost boys.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I agree that he has been to NL some point during this (rather long) time frame because Felix calls him the Dark One, meaning Felix has to know Rumple AFTER he lost Bae. But that doesn’t mean Rumple wasn’t there before then. What if Rumple was trying to get the bean from Smee to go to NL and recruit PP’s help in finding his son. After all, it’s what PP does: he finds lost boys.
True, Rumple may have been in NL more than once before now. Anything is possible in NL. I definitely think Rumple was there as the Dark One, possibly in search of his son.
A while back, there was also a theory that Rumple’s Dark One curse could itself hail from NL. The BF said that dark magic didn’t belong in the EF. Well, we may learn about previous Dark Ones even before Zoso in S3. Maybe PP himself is a Dark One under a curse. Maybe Rumple came to him after becoming the current Dark One in search of answers and his son. Also, it sounds like PP and Rumple both know about the Prophesy.
Felix tells Rumple that Pan will allow him to remain in Neverland as long as he likes, but if he has come for “the boy” then Rumple and Pan shall remain enemies, to which Rumple replies, “So then nothing has changed” between clenched teeth.
The two of them discuss a possible confrontation between Rumple and Pan, wherein Rumple acknowledges that he would die if it should happen. He then says that death isn’t the real issue; the real issue is how many Lost Boys he (Rumple) takes with him. Rumple says this as he grabs Felix and pulls him right up to his own face, it’s very heated and tense.
Based on Rumple’s very heated conversation with Felix, both of them (and PP) know about the Prophesy about ‘the boy’ (i.e. Henry). Rumple says, “Then nothing has changed,” meaning that he and PP are enemies going way back and may have even fought before. Both believe that Rumple will be undone (i.e. die) if he tries to save Henry by going head to head with PP. That means PP must have had access to a seer like Rumple did or PP himself is able to glimpse the future. PP has been looking for Henry for a long time. PP might have even given the Dark Curse to Rumple, since there is also a theory that PP is the real puppet master who planted the seer to give the prophesy to Rumple, which put into motion all the events that followed.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
A lot of people are jumping to the conclusion that Rumplestiltskin might have been a lost boy, but this simply does not fit with canon.
What we know about Rumple’s past:
When he was young, his father went out one night, claiming to fetch water but forgot the bucket. Rumple went after his father to bring him the bucket and watches as two men murder his father. They then notice Rumple and wonder what to do, finally deciding to “take him to the spinners.”
Presumably, the spinners raised him and gave him his trade (his mother probably had died before then).
Rumple grew up in the same village and came of age and married Milah.
Rumple wanted to prove himself and free himself from the taint of his father who was a known coward (running away from his debts). He enlists in the ogre wars, and we know the rest.There isn’t room for Rumple to be a lost boy.
Even if they stick with that same history as canon (like PriceofMagic pointed out, it never even made the deleted scenes on the DVD, so it’s not canon yet), I don’t think that throws a glitch into the theory of Rumple being a Lost Boy at all. Obviously, if he was there, he got out. It could easily be a case similar to Wendy’s, where Rumple was taken there, and when he was sent back, only a day or so had passed in FTL, even if he’d been in NL for a bit longer. I think that fits rather perfectly with the idea that PP was his brother, because I could see PP having his brother brought to NL, but the brother doesn’t want to stay, so PP rejects him and sends him back to FTL.
Like I said before, I’m fine with the doll belonging to either of them at this point. But because we assume Bae did not go to NL with the doll, it was made in NL and if that is the case, we do not know how Rumple would know that it was Bae’s.
Bae was wearing his pjs and dressing gown when he was taken to NL, so I’ll be very surprised if he had a straw doll, (that he’d also just so happened to have on him when he left FTL), on his person anywhere at that time. We haven’t seen an image of the doll, (we really, desperately need to see this clip), but the impression I’ve got is that it’s a very simple object, with no particularly defining features, so as of right now, I’m not buying into the voodoo doll idea, or that it resembles Bae in any way. So if it doesn’t resemble Bae, and Bae didn’t have it on him when he was traveling between worlds, the only way Rumple would recognise it is if it was an object from his own childhood.
What she might have meant is her character only knows Hook and Regina have been there since her character thinks Bae is dead and might not know of his past in NL. It could mean she was speaking as an actress knowing behind the scenes things her character does not know so she is telling us the whole list of people on the boat with previous NL visits as you interpret, but I don’t know that she was being so accurate. I think she got used to talking about Hook and Regina because she gets asked about them more than Rumpel and R starts both Regina and Rumpel. So I could see it being that all 3 villains had previous NL experience.
The question of whether JMo let a genuine spoiler slip, or if she just misspoke, is doing my head in, because how can I formulate concrete Ariel headcanon if I don’t know for sure if Regina ever went to NL? *headdesk*
Anyway, given that it now seems that Rumple runs off on his own pretty much as soon as they get there, I can believe that there may be a scene with the rest of the JR6 where Regina reveals that she’s been there before, and that’s what JMo was referring to.
Rumple has obviously been to NL before. He and Felix know each other, and Felix knows him as the Dark One. He calls him that. Even if Rumple only knew PP by reputation, he wouldn’t know Felix, who is just a Lost One.
If Rumple was there as a child, and Felix was PP’s minion even back then, Rumple could well remember him. Maybe they had an altercation which resulted in Felix getting that fancy face scar. That’d be something Rumple would remember happening.
And if PP does have a role in orchestrating all of this history we’ve seen play out, including Rumple becoming the Dark One, then that’s how Felix knew to call him the Dark One. It would also explain why Felix mentions Rumple being there for the boy. If this is all part of PP’s grand scheme, I think Felix, as head Lost One, and likely PP’s most trusted minion, knows the details, and his conversation with Rumple could be his way of letting Rumple know that, “PP and I know what’s up with you, so don’t think you can just waltz in and confuse us and do what you wanna do, because we know all about you and are prepared to take you down.”
I’m not ready to completely rule out Rumple having been there as an adult just yet, but I do think everything would still fit if he’d only ever been there as a child.
I’m not sure the doll is Bae’s (or that it’s a doll OF Bae). In the clip doesn’t Felix say something like “the things we haven’t thought about in years can still make us cry”? That implies that the doll is related to something that happened long ago (that we might not know about yet) and that hasn’t been thought about in a long time. Rumple has thought about Bae and all things related to Bae probably on a daily basis for the past 300 years. The doll is supposed to represent something from long ago that Rumple has pushed from his mind (for whatever reason).
Agreed.
A lot of people have tweeted asking Adam if that scene from Manhattan is still canon as it was not aired and not on the DVD set. No answer thus far. But even if it is, that doesn’t mean that Rumple wasn’t in NL as a boy. He was very young when his father left, probably about 6ish and then went to live with aunt Spinster Aunts, but there is nothing that say he didn’t go to NL during that time and before he married Milah. He wasn’t that young when he and Milah married and decided to start a family. If he was about 45 when Bae was 14, then he was about 31 when they decided to start a family, so let’s say they married at 30. We know that NL isn’t just for pre-teenage boys. Felix is about 18-20 years old. If Rumple lived with his aunts until 18 (assuming that’s the age of majority) he could have gone to NL after that time for even a brief stint. I don’t think his stay in NL was a long one.
Or he even could have gone to NL for a very short period of time while he was a young boy. From what we know of his childhood, his aunts were probably not that loving. If he went missing for a day or two, would they have noticed?"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think it is possible he was there as a young boy, but it is a richer story if he was there trying to get Bae. It parallels his current situation trying to get Henry.
I also think the doll could have been Bae’s as it didn’t seem big and could have been tucked inside a shirt. If you knew you had to leave behind all you knew, wouldn’t you take something as a memento that was small and easy to cary? If that doll was the first toy that Bae had, especially one that Rumpel made for him, Rumpel would know what it looked like and meant.
As for the doll being too fragile/squished–here is what it says on Ehow about Straw Dolls:
Dolls made by hand can be treasured by you now and handed down through many generations. One of the easiest types of dolls to make is the straw doll. They take very little time and can be dressed like any other doll. Learn how you can make straw dolls that will put a smile on any child’s face.
If it can be handed down many generations, doesn’t sound that fragile. And yes he was in his dressing gown, but he might have had it in his pockets as his one reminder of home.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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