Was Rumple a Lost Boy? (spoilers!)

[Phee]

I think it is possible he was there as a young boy, but it is a richer story if he was there trying to get Bae. It parallels his current situation trying to get Henry.

The issue I have with Rumple being aware that Bae was in NL is that if Rumple knew that, and was actually in NL to get Bae, there’s no way Rumple would have left without him.

Unless he was forced to leave against his will, but even if so, why was Rumple trying to get to our world, if he knew Bae was in NL? Bae didn’t leave NL until after the Curse was cast.

The only way I could see it working is if PP lied and told Rumple that Bae had been in NL, but had since moved on to the land without magic.

But if Rumple thought that Bae had originally gone to a land without magic when he went down the beanhole, why would he have been seeking him out in other magic lands to begin with?

Doesn’t add up IMO. So I think if Rumple was there for some reason as an adult, he never had any idea that Bae was there.

I also think the doll could have been Bae’s as it didn’t seem big and could have been tucked inside a shirt. If you knew you had to leave behind all you knew, wouldn’t you take something as a memento that was small and easy to cary?

I totally would because I’m excessively sentimental about random objects. But even if so, why would he have had it in his pj pocket when he was taken by the Shadow? He wasn’t anticipating having to leave at that point in time, like he was with the beanhole, so he wouldn’t have had his keepsakes packed for a trip. Unless the Shadow went back for it later, being in Bae’s pj pocket was the only way it could get to NL.

[kfchimera]

He would have it in his pockets because he’d gotten used to keeping it on his body, having lived in the streets of london for 6 months.   Plus, he’s 14 and carrying a doll and maybe he didn’t want to share that with the others.

You’re right though, Phee, that Rumpel wouldn’t have wanted to leave without Bae, and there’s t-word issues about how Bae left before the curse.

I think it makes the most sense then that Rumpel came to NL for the curse either before Bae showed up there, or that he didn’t realize Bae was there when he came. PP of course would not have told Rumpel he had his son and Rumpel would not have said why he wanted the curse.

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Josephine]

Phee, your post got me thinking about these passages:

2×04 “The Crocodile”

Mr. Gold: Baelfire is his name. After he left, I dedicated myself to finding him. I went down many, many paths until I found a curse that could take me to the land where he’d escaped.

2x “Manhattan”

Neal: Fine! We- we gotta get off the street. We can’t do it out in the open. I spent a lifetime running from the man. I’m not gonna let him catch me. There’s a bar down the street. We can talk there.

and also from the same episode

Mr. Gold: Well, my son’s been running away for a very long time now. And I have a feeling he’s equally adept at it.

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Edited: Having trouble editing post. It ate half of this post and then wouldn’t let me edit. Evidently it’s okay with me slamming my fingers onto the keyboard and allows that to be posted. Grrr.

Anyway…what I was saying was Rumple appears to know that Bae has been running from him. I can see one of the trips being to Neverland and Bae realizes Rumple is there and that is the impetus for him to flee to our world. How he gets here, I don’t know. But Neal knew his dad was searching for him, and he didn’t want to be found.

Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.

[Phee]

I think it makes the most sense then that Rumpel came to NL for the curse either before Bae showed up there, or that he didn’t realize Bae was there when he came. PP of course would not have told Rumpel he had his son and Rumpel would not have said why he wanted the curse.

If Rumple went to NL to pick up the Curse, I’d guess it was after Bae arrived there. There was only 6 months between Bae leaving Rumple, and arriving in NL. I guess technically that’s enough time for Rumple to find out that the Curse exists, but then why spend a couple hundred years setting it up? There wasn’t another true love couple around in the couple hundred years pre-Snowing?

Anyway…what I was saying was Rumple appears to know that Bae has been running from him. I can see one of the trips being to Neverland and Bae realizes Rumple is there and that is the impetus for him to flee to our world. How he gets here, I don’t know. But Neal knew his dad was searching for him, and he didn’t want to be found.

I’ve always wondered how we were meant to interpret those quotes you listed. Like you said, it sounds a bit like they’ve been playing a game of hide and seek. But could it also just be Neal’s way of saying, “Ever since I went down the beanhole, he hasn’t known where I am, and I’d like to keep it that way,” and Rumple’s way of saying, “It’s been a really long time since I let him go and we haven’t seen each other since.” I think it could go either way.

[RumplesGirl]

If Rumple went to NL to pick up the Curse, I’d guess it was after Bae arrived there. There was only 6 months between Bae leaving Rumple, and arriving in NL. I guess technically that’s enough time for Rumple to find out that the Curse exists, but then why spend a couple hundred years setting it up? There wasn’t another true love couple around in the couple hundred years pre-Snowing?

Agreed. Plus, we know that for those 6 months before Bae lands in NL, Rumple isn’t trying to get the Curse; he’s trying to get a bean.

I think the far more poetic story is that Rumple found himself in NL while Bae was there and Bae saw.
However, that doll comes back up….way too much emotion for a seemingly random object that obviously already has a emotional connection to Rumple. And, from what we’ve heard about this scene, more than just “my son is dead, I’m going to cry over this random toy.”

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

I think if no new characters it is unlikely we would get some Rumple as a boy story.

I still think Bae’s toy is more likely as it it would not be a random toy.  I agree it would be better if we had seen the toy before, for foreshadowing, but it could work as a lead in to a scene of Bae as a toddler and Rumpel making him the toy.   The line itself helps explain the emotion–it is funny how you think you have the grief all bottled up and something small brings it out.  Part of my reasoning here is that I get sentimental about things, and obviously Rumpel is the type to do the same (chippedcup, shawl), he botttles it up then the object will uncork the grief and sadness.

Have you ever seen Toy Story? Toys can mean a lot. Toy Story 3 highlighted the way our toys become symbols of our lost childhood, and the passage of time.  This makes me weepy, but I could totally picture Andy’s mom losing it if Andy had died and she found Woody in a thrift store.

In the second one, the boy’s mother argues with a man willing to buy the boy’s doll Woody when Woody accidentally ends up on the garage sale.    In the last one an-off-to-college Andy wants to keep Woody, his doll, with him.  He does not want to give the rest of the core gang away.  So he tries to put them in the attic.  In the end, he turns them all, even Woody, over to a little girl.  I cried and I know I was not the only one.  .

Again, I totally agree it would have more impact if we already saw that the straw doll was Bae’s Woody, but it still works otherwise.  And bonus points to the writers if the do work in a Toy story reference with the doll being dressed like the equivalent of a sheriff in FTL of the time.

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Slurpeez]

I think the far more poetic story is that Rumple found himself in NL while Bae was there and Bae saw.
However, that doll comes back up….way too much emotion for a seemingly random object that obviously already has a emotional connection to Rumple. And, from what we’ve heard about this scene, more than just “my son is dead, I’m going to cry over this random toy.”

Now, I’m open to Rumple having been a Lost Boy himself, and maybe Rumple has been in NL more than once. I just think Rumple’s emotional turmoil is due to the very recent secondary loss of Baelfire. I don’t think this doll is just some random toy. As a parent, I’d openly weep over a sentimental object connected to my child (no matter how old), especially if I had just lost that child to death. But I wouldn’t cry about a toy from my own childhood. In Rumple’s case, it is especially poignant to be reminded of how he failed Bae not just once but twice. He failed when he let his son go the first time and now he believes his son is dead and gone forever. Now, if that doll is in anyway connected to Bae, seeing it as a reminder about the little boy Bae used to be would be enough to cause a bereaved father to break down and bitterly sob, especially because he feels somewhat responsible for Neal’s “death.” Had Rumple not been so consumed by doing dark magic for Lacey he and Neal would have re-connected and Rumple might have realized that Tamara was up to no good. That doll represents a fresh pain, even if he hasn’t thought about that specific toy in a long time (250 odd years).

Also, going back to those quotes about Bae, I believe he has been running from his dad for a long time. Rumple said so in 2×14, and he meant it in the literal sense, not some metaphorical sense. There must be some reason Neal bolted when Emma showed up in NYC. He knew the curse had been broken and that his dad might come looking for him. Also, recall in 2×6 that August didn’t say Bae’s name aloud. Well, one theory is that Rumple, who traffics in names, may have enchanted his son’s name so that every time it was said aloud, Rumple was able to discover his son’s whereabouts. How else, after centuries of trying to find a way to his son, could Rumple have confirmed his son was even alive? Baelfire is mortal, and would only live a normal human lifespan. Yet, it’s been about 250 years since Rumple lost his son (and time runs parallel in EF and our world). So, I think Rumple might have discovered his son’s life was somehow being preserved, so maybe he deduced that Bae was in a land without time.

If Rumple went to NL to pick up the Curse, I’d guess it was after Bae arrived there. There was only 6 months between Bae leaving Rumple, and arriving in NL. I guess technically that’s enough time for Rumple to find out that the Curse exists, but then why spend a couple hundred years setting it up? There wasn’t another true love couple around in the couple hundred years pre-Snowing?

The reason it took Rumple so long to come to our world could be:
1) He tried to find a less drastic means of transport other than the dark curse
2) Rumple didn’t just need a couple with true love; Rumple needed someone to cast the curse for him. There was no way Rumple was going to kill the person he loves most (Bell) to find Bae. That is why it took Rumple so long to set the stage with Cora, who set into motion the animosity between Snow and Regina, his protege. He was stacking the deck just right so that the result would be Regina killing her dad to cast the dark curse to bring Rumple to A Land Without Magic.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Phee]

I still reckon the doll was Rumple’s. Something made for him by one of his parents, probably not long before they died. He had it with him when he went to NL as a boy, and he lost it while he was there. When he got back home, maybe that’s when he got sent to live with the spinsters, (if they keep that history, but c’mon how could they not because Rumple being raised by spinsters is too perfect), and wasn’t able to take any momentos with him. It’s been 300-odd years since he saw or touched something that reminded him of his parents and his childhood. That time in his life when he was young and pure and innocent. If he’s falling to his knees and crying, it’s over something he wasn’t prepared for. He’s prepared for thinking about Bae, is probably thinking about him constantly because he’s currently on a mission to save Bae’s son. If he lost this doll as a child, he wouldn’t be expecting to see it again, and it would trigger this reaction when it’s thrust right into his hands.

[kfchimera]

I could barely even write the scenario out as a what if for me, and had to think of a movie characters to distance me, but that’s what I meant exactly Slurpeez and you put it so much better.

Also a good point about the names and the running thing.  I’d like there to be a reason August typed rather than said Baelfire.   It was just so silly dramatic.  Bae says his name to Wendy and to Hook.  A name is an obvious question to ask, but it also made it obvious that he was not yet using a false name.

So here’s a thought (pushing the weepy stuff away)–what if Rumpel can hear Baelfire’s name if it is said to or by Bae?  What happens if Neal wakes up in the FTL, introduces himself as Neal but at some later point reveals his original name, and that is when Rumpel realizes Bae is not dead?  Like right at a moment when Rumpel is about to do something suicidal to rescue Henry.

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Phee]

Another thought regarding what I said in my previous post…

Maybe Rumple’s parents both died when their house burned, and this straw doll was the only thing that little Rumple was able to salvage. Tink popped up to take Rumple to live with his brother in NL, now that their parents were gone. But Rumple doesn’t want to stay, and when he gets back to FTL, after however long, doesn’t really matter how long because everyone assumed he’d died in the fire with his parents when he couldn’t be found, he’s an orphan, and goes to live with the spinsters.

I’d like there to be a reason August typed rather than said Baelfire.

So the audience wouldn’t be clued in yet. 😉 Seriously, I reckon that’s the only reason it was done that way. Think I’m the only person alive who doesn’t have a problem with that reveal, because it’s almost exactly what I’d guessed it’d be. 😛

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