What can or can't they use in OUAT? Possible Oz ideas

[Crystal Princess]

Crystal Princess wrote: , I like the kind of crazy setting but not the original narrative and Baum’s racism. Wicked, especially the musical version(the book was a bit too SEX DRUGS AND EDGY POLITICS), really made it work I feel.

The musical version of Wicked is too…. disney-fied as it is. I love it and all but once I read the book, I loved the book more. People love elphaba and forget that she isn’t the wicked witch… That is just ONE of many versions of the witch and not the official one. Thats why some people HATED Oz that great and powerful before it even came out. Thats why some people hate the Broadway version of the wizard of oz (most recent one) because the witch is actually EVIL. Dont get me wrong, I love Elphie and Galinda and Fiyero, and Nessa and all them. But if Once does Oz I hope its not Wicked version. We can’t add more fuel to that fire. Its getting its own show soon afterall (though based on the novel)

The Wicked (musical) version would fit so much better with Once’s narrative though, especially the idea of putting “Unadulterated Hope” on TV despite not being afraid to show dark things. Like people have even pointed out the similarities between Elphaba and Regina, but they’re still very different characters.

I know there are many different versions of the witch but it just seems like that’s the version that inspired much of OUAT’s narrative in the first place and it’s a shame not to use it.

I get kind of tired of the constant slew of dark, twisted or gritty interpretations of fairy tales which have already had countless darkified versions back when they were still just folk tales. What Book!Wicked did wasn’t all that different to a lot of other Look at Me I’m so Adult interpretations of storybooks and fairytales did and while it was good and paved the way for a better(IMO) musical using mostly the same characters and some of the same concepts it seems to me like it’s the stereotypical cynical, “grown up” fairytale adaption they’ve been purposely avoiding once. Dark without being bleak or overly cynical – that sums up Once for me.

And Musical!Wicked captures that essence very well too. Let’s not forget it DOES get dark, she still goes crazy and locks up a kid because she wants her shoes, people still die, there are still very serious issues of racism, politics and the like just more less drawn out than in the book, and tons of sapphic undertones. The musical works on several levels – just because the book only works on an “adult” level doesn’t make it better I think. From what I can see it’s more fleshed out and the sequels sound interesting but I just think if they were going to use a version of Wicked, they should do the musical version, since the musical is it’s own thing and has room to be fleshed out. We don’t see much of Musical!Elphie growing up for example and there’s tons of possibilities after the ending.

Of course I don’t want them to ACTUALLY use the musical and put bits of it on screen, just a version of that general story with plenty of it’s own twists.

[Crystal Princess]

Am I the only one on this forum who likes “disneyfied” things. I don’t like how they equate “family friendly” to mean no queer and little minority represenatation(AND GUESS WHAT ELSE IS BAD WITH THAT) but I don’t think making hopeful adaptions of storybooks and fairytales(which again is nothing new and tons of fairytales are even more sickeningly sweet than the Disney movies, it gets very broad) is a bad thing at all. I think we kind of need more hope?

We need to be not afraid to address darker themes but not let them consume us and convince that we’re operating on a new, more mature and REAL level of reality because we’ve accepted all these bleak, grown up things and oooh drugs and oooh sex and oooh gang violence and oooh drive by shootings and because these things exist and you accept they exist you’re on the highest more realist level of reality and there’s no going back or telling a hopeful story in spite of all this crap despite the fact that there are real people in the world every day that have to live with that and many of them still end up having happy stories, and a lot more could if we didn’t convince ourselves this was the natural state of things. I am transgender, I know these things. We go to some dark places. Many of us don’t come back – but a lot of us do.

Like some really dark stuff happens in OUAT, and even in Wicked to an extent(though it’s more undertones in a lot of cases, alluding to but not mentioning stuff from the book) but it doesn’t act like simply showing dark things means that’s all there is and we can never overcome it, as I think that’s a crappy narrative we’ve had far too much of in TV especially with people selling shows like Breaking Bad as high art – not simply because it’s a good show but because it deals with gritty real issues and that makes it better, because it’s bleaker, darker and more depressing.

That’s not what art is, it’s not what entertainment is and a lot of people forget this stuff unfortunately.

One of my favourite other modern fairytale adaptions is Princess Tutu where more or less the point of series is to fight against the author that fetishises tragedy and hopeless endings. Aside from the fact that Drosselmeyer would make an AWESOME Once Villain(who built the clockwork stuff in the clocktower/library?) I really liked that approach, because Team Bleak tend to like to think they’re on the top level of reality and maturity and don’t need to be put in any sort of place ever because dark stuff is more mature and anyone who has a problem with it is obviously 12.

There’s nothing wrong with stories with sad endings and they can be beautiful and artistic, but not INHERENTLY more so. I understand we do tend to get a lot of Hollywood […] that’s endlessly sugarcoated, but those are generally empty movies. When people try to do something seriously good or artistic, they tend to make something dark with no real hope of a positive ending and we need to stop pushing this false dichotomy. Though a sort of third option, Bittersweet endings are pretty much the norm in japanese animation too, and it gets fatiguing too(generally because they err on the side of bitter).

Whereas I can look at something like Frozen or Princess and the Frog, still see it’s beautiful, still see others consider them to be beautiful even though they don’t go down that road.

So screw people complaining about “Disneyfication”. Disney has a whole load of problems but selling hopeful narratives is not one of them.

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[Josephine]

No way are they going to use Wicked.  Like RG said, they own O:G&P and the original source material is public domain so no way is ABC going to shell out the money for Wicked.  Just not going to happen.

Copyright law is complicated.  That’s why studios constantly sue each other over the littlest bit of infringement.  Every law has an exception and that exception has an exception and then you get into international rights and it’s all horrible.  I hated that part of Business Law in college many many moons ago.

 

 

Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.

[Crystal Princess]

Okay, so Wicked is “technically maybe possible but very unlikely/impractical”.

Next idea: Marvel properties, where it makes sense to use them(Relevant to Fairytales/Storybooks/Legends/Magic – like perhaps using the Sasquatch from Alpha Flight, Marvel version of Morgana La Fey etc.).

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[RumplesGirl]

I grew up with Disney. I love it. I recognize that the classics I know and love aren’t “modern” but that doesn’t make me love them any less. And Disney is trying. They’re trying to push themselves, but I think it’s hard for them to take those big leaps while also watching their pocketbook (and that’s crass and maybe wrong but it’s a reality of the business)

As for ONCE: I want them to have an LBGT(and other letters) storyline very badly. One that doesn’t get swept under the rug like SleepingWarrior feels like it was. In the end, we’ll most likely never see SW come back in any real way because of Sarah and Jamie being on different shows. I think A and E believe in the power of love and a non hetero canon couple would fit perfectly. But it’s also about story, when they should introduce it in their narrative. My personal headcanon is that if they ever get to Hercules they make him gay. Subvert the normal “token gay character” trope (keeping with it would make Arhcie gay if anyone). I’d love to see that.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Crystal Princess]

I grew up with Disney. I love it. I recognize that the classics I know and love aren’t “modern” but that doesn’t make me love them any less. And Disney is trying. They’re trying to push themselves, but I think it’s hard for them to take those big leaps while also watching their pocketbook (and that’s crass and maybe wrong but it’s a reality of the business) As for ONCE: I want them to have an LBGT(and other letters) storyline very badly. One that doesn’t get swept under the rug like SleepingWarrior feels like it was. In the end, we’ll most likely never see SW come back in any real way because of Sarah and Jamie being on different shows. I think A and E believe in the power of love and a non hetero canon couple would fit perfectly. But it’s also about story, when they should introduce it in their narrative. My personal headcanon is that if they ever get to Hercules they make him gay. Subvert the normal “token gay character” trope (keeping with it would make Arhcie gay if anyone). I’d love to see that.

Queer erasure makes me really really angry tbh. Statistically 8% of the population has had at least one homosexual encounter so out of the hundred speaking roles(or so) we have at least 8 should be queer or have had a queer experience.(or course if anything we should have disproportionately more to make up for the lack of it up until now – we can never go back and insert PoC and Queerness into old TV shows and films that still get repeated ad nauseum). We have like… 1. Who also happens to be the 1 out of ANOTHER 8% that hasn’t turned out to be evil or dead… PoC.

They really really need to do better. Rapunzel is a good start but they can do so much more; Sleepy Hollow did.

Also having a “token” gay charter is still much better than nothing. Let’s not forget that Uhara on Star Trek would be viewed as a Token black character back in the day.

So far the moral of the story is that only straight, white, ablebodies cispeople can have happy endings… which is kind of really uncool.

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[RumplesGirl]

Queer erasure makes me really really angry tbh. Statistically 8% of the population has had at least one homosexual encounter so out of the hundred speaking roles(or so) we have at least 8 should be queer or have had a queer experience.(or course if anything we should have disproportionately more to make up for the lack of it up until now – we can never go back and insert PoC and Queerness into old TV shows and films that still get repeated ad nauseum). We have like… 1. Who also happens to be the 1 out of ANOTHER 8% that hasn’t turned out to be evil or dead… PoC.

That’s not what I’m doing! I said I wanted it. I want more diverstiy on this show. It needs to happen. It’s a problem. What part of my post even sounded like I wanted “erasure”

Also having a “token” gay charter is still much better than nothing. Let’s not forget that Uhara on Star Trek would be viewed as a Token black character back in the day.

Maybe it would be better than nothing, but I’m pretty sure there would be outcries of “too easy! You didn’t push yourself hard enough”

And ok to Uhura, but that was 1966. We’ve come some ways since then. We don’t need tokenism.

So far the moral of the story is that only straight, white, ablebodies cispeople can have happy endings… which is kind of really uncool.

Again. Did I say ANYTHING that implies I think that is “cool?” No. I want it. I’m rather insulted that you’re taking my words and making it sound like I’m against the idea. I literally said up front that I want it.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[once_dude]

what i thought this topic would be about and what ended up getting discussed were different so first i will go over opinions on what has been discussed

1. Wicked: I love the musical have not read the book. want to read that whole series but will have to block out some time to do so. It would be interesting as a tv show my friend has read the book and she says it is completely different from the musical. will also read the princess Tutu book or whatever it is that was mentionned.

2. LGBT OUAT:  sure why not? I love the idea that true love can come in all forms (just so long as it is not swan Queen) I mean theyre supposed to be enemies, I can see sharing Henry, and possibly even having a Thanksgiving dinner together but not Swan Queen as canon.

3. race in Ouat: sure they need characters of all races, why cant they have an African Prince Charming? why cant they have Aladdin? how come one of Hook’s crew can’t be of a different race? and where were all the aboriginals in Neverland (was I using the correct term for that last one?

4. What I thought the thread would actually be about: what worlds have we seen and coudl we see on Once?

London (Darlings’, Alice, make up your mind)

world without colour (sure more of this land)

Neverland (so much more story there)

Agraba (lots more story here)

Greek myth land (ok you have Midas and chimera and Medussa what else have you)

Sherwood Forest (sure an adventure with Robin would be nice)

Camelot (Lancelot had to come from somewhere)

as to more myths to include:

norse would be super cool

anybody know the african myth of Anansy? (think I am spelling that right)

more Chinese or Japanese or Korean myths would be awesome (and more screen time for Mulan or other characters from that culture)

Hans Christian Anderson (he has plenty of stories to use some very dark which we all know OUAT loves)

Magic always comes with a price, so I pay with visa.

[Crystal Princess]

I can’t imagine them doing lesser known Fairytales unfortunately, once of the things I dislike about OUAT is that it only sticks to well known/Disney ones.

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[TheWatcher]

*sigh* I make this long winded post about stuff and then it doesn’t even post -___- I’ll just do a summary.

 

1.) Book Elphaba is MUCH MORE Wicked than musical version. Sure musical version may have locked Dorothy in a basement for the shoes… But in the novel, Elphaba actually killed a child >> (when the icicle fell through Maneks skull I mean) and she also threatened to rip her own SONS testicles off with her foot. She is the real Wicked witch. Elphaba in the musical never really EVER did anything bad. She is only wicked because the Wizard spread that propaganda after she didn’t wanna go along with his shenanigans >>

2.) Book Elphaba has good in her even though she is almost kind of Wicked. This is the same Elphbaba that had dinner with Dorothy. The same one who cried over her fathers death and fought for the rights of Animals. The same one who ran out into a lake to save her monkey, knowing water could kill her. Thats very Once. All her wicked ways had a reason and she’s very 3D. Musical elphaba is just a good girl who people spread rumors about.

3.) The book isn’t that explicit. Afterall, I read it the first time when I was in 7th grade. Sure it could do without the Tiger rape scene… And Glindas “walnuts” comment but all-in-all the book does a dark retelling very well. Its not focused on sex, though I would say more so on philosophy and politics. The characters, the land even seems very real and realistic. For Once to show THAT version of Oz would be great because we would see it in a different way that FTL or WL.

4.) The Wizard. In the movie and musical he is just a bumbling, lying old man. In the book… That guy is truly a monster T.T he has no magic whatsoever but manages to rule Oz so effectively because he is simply a BOSS! Elphaba spent YEARS trying to kill him and couldn’t. He isn’t some foolish old man. He is a murderer all the way. He was a real threat and a villain in disguise as a hero. Thats Once material.

In short, the novel version of Wicked is a good candidate to be used as inspiration for Once. I dont want that but if they do I dont think the musical version will be so surprising because everyhting in that musical is what we have already seen before.

"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC

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