Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Four › 4×07 “The Snow Queen” › What Did Ingrid Whisper
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November 10, 2014 at 12:00 pm #289655CindersParticipant
Sounds like we’re all puzzled by the riddle of the Snow Queen. However, when the puzzle pieces come together, in the original story, they form the word ETERNITY.
That word, ETERNITY, has to fit into the story somehow, right?
[adrotate group="5"]November 10, 2014 at 12:24 pm #289658SlurpeezParticipantThat word, ETERNITY, has to fit into the story somehow, right?
Now that I think of it, eternity is the word that the girl, Gerda, had to spell to free the boy, Kai, from the Snow Queen. According to one interpretation, the word “eternity” had to do with entering the kingdom of heaven. Another interpretation is that the eternity which humans experience is love, the only thing strong enough to overcome the Snow Queen’s power. “Love is greater than fear” is the prevalent theme in Frozen, which I believe was also a theme being introduced in this episode. If Ingrid had only chosen her sisters’ love over the deal she made with Rumple, then her sister might have been alive and well today. That is the lesson Elsa learned in the Disney tale, but which Ingrid never did. The only hope for Ingrid, for Emma, for Regina, for Rumple, or for any of them, is to learn love casts out fear (or something like that). The only way to break the spell of scattered sight is for love to win the day.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
November 10, 2014 at 12:39 pm #289661CindersParticipantRumple only has eternal life as long as he controls the dagger. He can die still if someone were to kill him with the dagger.
I think Rumple wants eternal life WITHOUT needing the dagger.
However, assuming Rumple is the only one who has eternal life, that would mean that for all eternity he will always outlive anyone he loves. His children, his wife, his lovers, will always die while he lives. That’s a pretty hefty price to pay. He would need to build a pretty huge wall to protect his heart agains the pain of knowing Belle, Henry, will die, as did Baelfire, while he lives eternally.
November 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm #289663SlurpeezParticipantRumple only has eternal life as long as he controls the dagger. He can die still if someone were to kill him with the dagger.
I think Rumple wants eternal life WITHOUT needing the dagger.
However, assuming Rumple is the only one who has eternal life, that would mean that for all eternity he will always outlive anyone he loves. His children, his wife, his lovers, will always die while he lives. That’s a pretty hefty price to pay. He would need to build a pretty huge wall to protect his heart agains the pain of knowing Belle, Henry, will die, as did Baelfire, while he lives eternally.
Hmm. Maybe Rumple wants to cleave himself from the dagger, because he doesn’t want to live forever? Maybe outliving his son was too much for him, and he dreads outliving Belle. I could see him possibly wanting the opposite of eternity. Rumple was resurrected from the vault of the dark one. Maybe he resents being brought back to life? Maybe he was finally at rest, having scarified his life for the noble reason of protecting his loved ones. Now he wants to find a way to become mortal again, but without having to give up his powers, which scares him. Maybe he wants his powers to die with him. He wants to end the dark one curse once and for all so that no one is ever afflicted with it again. That would at least be a way more sympathetic reason for Rumple to cleave himself from the dagger, rather than having uncontrollable power for power’s sake.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
November 10, 2014 at 1:00 pm #289664KebParticipantThey actually established that Rumple CAN make Belle younger as long as needed so she can live forever with him (as long as one of his many enemies doesn’t succeed in killing her first), back in Lacey when she asked. He’s also offered to make Smee & Bae younger again. So we know it’s possible; he doesn’t have to fear that bit.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
November 10, 2014 at 1:08 pm #289666SlurpeezParticipantThey actually established that Rumple CAN make Belle younger as long as needed so she can live forever with him (as long as one of his many enemies doesn’t succeed in killing her first), back in Lacey when she asked. He’s also offered to make Smee & Bae younger again. So we know it’s possible; he doesn’t have to fear that bit.
Yeah, but that was Lacey who asked, not Belle. I don’t think Belle in her right mind would want to have eternal life by means of dark magic, even if it meant staying with Rumple forever. Doesn’t Belle know better than to use dark magic? She showed better sense than Neal did in using that key at the vault.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
November 10, 2014 at 1:15 pm #289667KebParticipantOh, I don’t think that’s necessarily what Belle wants (though remember, they are both, so Lacey’s desires are not entirely in conflict with Belle’s). But if you’re Rumple right now and pretty confident things are going your way (save for your son being dead), you might well believe you CAN make it last forever. Unlike most people, he hast he ability, so he doesn’t have to dwell on the fear that he’ll outlive Belle.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
November 10, 2014 at 1:23 pm #289669SlurpeezParticipantI may be wrong, but I don’t think fear of death is what drives Rumple anymore, since he already faced his death. I think he is afraid of being controlled. Also, it could be that he resents being brought back to life. As I wrote before he may have finally been at rest, having scarified his life for the noble reason of protecting his loved ones. Now he wants to find a way to become mortal again, but without having to give up his powers, which scares him. Maybe one natural lifetime with Belle is all Rumple is after now, rather than eternity. He’s already lived 300 odd years, and maybe that is enough. Also, being the dark one would keep him from ever seeing his son again in the next life, if such a place exists in the Once universe.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
November 10, 2014 at 6:05 pm #289705PriceofMagicParticipantMaybe one natural lifetime with Belle is all Rumple is after now, rather than eternity. He’s already lived 300 odd years, and maybe that is enough. Also, being the dark one would keep him from ever seeing his son again in the next life, if such a place exists in the Once universe.
I think you could be on to something. Rumple isn’t the type to be evil for evil’s sake. He always has some goal in mind. For example, setting up the whole dark curse so that he can be reunited with Bae. We’re assuming Rumple’s reasoning for doing what he does is evil because we don’t know why he’s doing it, but what if it is like you say, he’s trying to free himself from the dagger but keep his power so that he could live out his natural life with Belle and see his son again. Peter Pan did say the line about being “reunited in death”.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixNovember 10, 2014 at 9:29 pm #289741Jiminy’s JournalParticipantIngrid whispered, “Hail Hydra.”
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