which characters you hate? (no flaming or bashing allowed)

[thelonebamf]

The Blue Fairy has never really sat well with me. It’s not that I don’t think she’s trustworthy. I do really think that she is a force for good and wants others to use magic responsibly (if they use it at all) and to be mindful of the costs associated with such power. But I don’t think a character has to be bad to be unlikable (nor does the reverse have to be true, ahem…). There are plenty of “character alignment” charts floating around for OUAT and I think the one that I found to be most accurate put the Blue Fairy in the spot of “Lawful Good”. This made the most sense out of any of the other options I’d seen (Henry, for example) for a variety of reasons. When I think about that class, I think of the classic example of that class, the Paladin.

Paladins are powered by goodness and virtue, so much so that if their actions are repeatedly not good (evil) and not lawful (chaotic) it will detract from their abilities. This is mirrored a bit with the Blue Fairy, who is incapable of using her powers unless certain stringent conditions are in place. As much as she and everyone around her wanted to save Pinocchio, she couldn’t do so unless his actions had met the requirements of being “selfless, brave, and true”. It is a power set that comes with a very strict set of conditions, and as such it means that her magic can’t be counted on 100% of the time.

That, coupled with the often overlooked “lawful” part of her character’s nature means that other characters are going to avoid her or leave her out of the picture from time to time. There have been several cases where a character has pursued a “good” course of action that wasn’t “lawful”. (Breaking the law to enforce the law- Emma does this a lot.) That is the sort of action that the Blue Fairy can’t abide. Henry has difficulty with this concept as well, but in his case it’s because he’s a young idealist. The Blue Fairy has lived long enough to know that sometimes things don’t always work out that way. For her, this is more of a self imposed limitation, not one that she has yet to grow out of. Because of this, she’s often not involved in the actions of the main set of characters, because they often deal in shades of grey. (This happens a lot in roleplaying games as well. It’s really common to have to hide your chaotic or evil actions from a Paladin in the group. Often the Paladin ends up having to make changes to the character. It can be a difficult class to play in many groups for this reason.)

The one time we’ve seen the Blue Fairy stray from this course was during the FTL sequence with Gepetto. She told a direct lie in order to make the deal with him and send Pinocchio through the portal, but this is the only case we’ve seen such an action from her. It was also probably the most interesting of her plotlines and the time I personally found her the most interesting and likable. It’s not a hidden agenda that makes her unlikable, it’s her general inflexibility.

Regarding Sydney- I think it is safe to say that even if he’d had his memories while in Storybrooke his actions wouldn’t have changed at all. His love for Regina was the sad sort that accepts even abuse from his loved one, because that is still a form of attention. Even if he’d been able to remember how she’d used him in the past I think he would have still found himself working for her. After all, even after he saw how she used him and framed him for the King’s death, his wish was still to be at her side. He knew then that she didn’t love him, but he still wanted to be with her.

[RumplesGirl]

The one time we’ve seen the Blue Fairy stray from this course was during the FTL sequence with Gepetto. She told a direct lie in order to make the deal with him and send Pinocchio through the portal, but this is the only case we’ve seen such an action from her. It was also probably the most interesting of her plotlines and the time I personally found her the most interesting and likable. It’s not a hidden agenda that makes her unlikable, it’s her general inflexibility.

What about “Dreamy?” True love is supposed to be the world’s most powerful magic and she kept Nova and Dreamy apart because it was “forbidden.” I lost of a lot of trust for BF after that episode.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thelonebamf]

I think that holds true to her rigidness. Nova had a duty, and it was BF’s job to see that she fulfilled it. I also think that just because true love is the most powerful, that doesn’t necessarily make it- hmm… I don’t want to say “good”, but I don’t know what other word to use. Gold used true love to unleash magic in Storybrooke, and that had dire consequences, not all of which were good. I think the BF knows that true love is powerful, and power has to be handled responsibly.

It wasn’t kind of her to deal with the situation that way, and perhaps it wasn’t even fair- but I think it falls in line with her being a “lawful” character. I don’t distrust BF (even if I don’t like her) because she is such a rigid character. You can always trust her to behave a certain way, following a certain code. Other characters (many of whom are far more likable!) aren’t always trustworthy because it’s difficult to discern how far they’ll go to accomplish something. A great example is Snow and Cora’s heart. Regina didn’t think for a moment that Snow had done anything to the heart because up until that point Snow had never done anything of the sort and she believed she could trust Snow to behave a certain way. When she didn’t there was a huge amount of fallout, especially concerning the darkening of Snow’s heart. (Again, this is not unlike the Paladin losing his powers.)

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[kfchimera]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

The one time we’ve seen the Blue Fairy stray from this course was during the FTL sequence with Gepetto. She told a direct lie in order to make the deal with him and send Pinocchio through the portal, but this is the only case we’ve seen such an action from her. It was also probably the most interesting of her plotlines and the time I personally found her the most interesting and likable. It’s not a hidden agenda that makes her unlikable, it’s her general inflexibility.

What about “Dreamy?” True love is supposed to be the world’s most powerful magic and she kept Nova and Dreamy apart because it was “forbidden.” I lost of a lot of trust for BF after that episode.

I see BF as like a bureaucrat, perhaps a head of state. Lots of potential power she cannot use for practical purposes because of rules.

She did not force them apart. She let Grumpy choose.

Bossy: You’re a dwarf, Dreamy. We’re not capable of love. It’s not how we’re made.

Grumpy: But, what if I’m different? What if you’re wrong?

(The Blue Fairy appears.)

Blue Fairy: Bossy’s not wrong, young one. What you feel – it’s just a dream.

Grumpy: Who are you?

Blue Fairy: I’m Nova’s teacher. And if the two of you run away together, it will not end well. Nova will lose her wings. But, if you return to the mines, and if you allow Nova to become the fairy that she was meant to be, the two of you will bring untold joy to the world. Nova can be a great fairy – if you let her. The choice is yours.

He gave up their love so she could achieve her original dream of being a FGM, and bring joy to others. No one blames him for breaking Nova’s heart that I see–everyone points at BF. Yet all she did was lay it out for him, what their love might cost Nova and the world.

The BF hate (well maybe a bit strong of a word) gets even odder, when you think about Neal & Emma, and the role August had in the breakup. Now I realize there are those who think Neal was afraid of his father or jail, but I think (and know others do too) that Neal did what he did because he thought it was the only way for Emma to meet her destiny. He wanted her to help everyone in the curse and reunite with her parents. Yet even I feel like he has to shoulder some blame for that hurt he caused.

I have not really seen, nor did I myself until this moment, ever “dream” of blaming Grumpy/Dreamy. Why is that?

Are we all just so ready for BF to be evil, or was Dreamy just so sweet and hurt we couldn’t bear to blame him for what he did?

I do believe there is great story potential in finding out exactly why “it wouldn’t end well” for a fairy and a dwarf. Bossy says dwarves can’t love–but can fairies? Was it both or just him that was the problem?

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

Was it really a choice, though? The word the BF words it, it seems like the choice is “your happiness or the worlds,” and given Dreamy’s sweet disposition and good heart, she manipulates her words enough knowing that he’d choose everyone’s happiness over his. It’s like saying “you two will be the sole cause of all the misery in the world,” and I don’t know if that’s fair. Why is that all on Nova and Dreamy? Are there no other fairies in the world who can carry dust? Nova wasn’t exactly the most useful fairy. Why is her sticking around so vital? Blue remarks at the beginning of the episode that Nova probably won’t be a FGM in a year, she’s too clumsy.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thelonebamf]

I think this could really depend on how you look at it. There are plenty of characters who have chosen their agenda over literally the rest of the world’s.

So yes, she told him that knowing very well what choice he was going to make because she knew what kind of person he was but that’s not the same as forcing someone. And I think if she was telling Grumpy that Nova could be a great fairy godmother after her disparaging remarks to Nova that was meant for us to see that BF actually really does care for Nova and isn’t as dismissive of her as we first thought. I read that moment as more of a teacher who has come to care for a struggling student because they have overcome so much and they know they have hidden potential that others may not. We don’t know a lot about what it takes to be a FGM, but it could be that having a difficult journey and knowing a lot about having your own wishes makes for greatness in that job. Maybe BF really did see something special in Nova and was afraid those qualities would be lost if she simply left for the “easy way” out. (I’m not saying that I think Nova and Dreamy’s path would have been easy, but it’s possible that BF might have seen it that way.) In this light, it’s easy to see BF as the sort of “cruel sensei” who cares a lot about their pupil but can’t show it because the struggle is what will bring them greatness. I don’t think she was baiting Dreamy with false words, I think she really believed this about Nova.

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[RumplesGirl]

Ok, Dreamy aside. Here’s something that bothers me to no extent. In The Return, Blue comforts herself into believing that Rumple’s powers aren’t to the point where he can cast the Curse, or even create it. Yet he spends the next 250+ years doing just that. What in heaven’s name was she doing while he did this? If she didn’t interfere with Regina, get her away from Rumple, because Regina never specifically asked for her help, then OK. I accept that premise. But she never once tried to stop him. In a show all about good beating evil, where was she?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thelonebamf]

That’s an excellent question.

I think this is where the idea of the limitations on what BF’s magic can and can’t do comes up. I don’t think it’s in her power to directly hurt another person so she couldn’t just blast Rumple with fire and say, “Oh no you don’t.” Her powers (and I guess fairy magic in general) is very much about wishes and wish granting, so I imagine the best she could do to try and stop him would have been to try and encourage wish-makers and those she was able to give aid to to use the magic she granted them in such a way that could possibly detract from Rumple’s success.

This doesn’t work for a variety of reasons. She doesn’t have any idea how a curse might be concocted, so it’s difficult to pinpoint which of Rumple’s plans she should keep an eye on. (And heck, maybe that’s why he spent time making deals that had nothing to do with the curse, to throw off anyone that might be watching him over the centuries!) There’s also no guarantee that she people she aids will end up using her gifts in a way that do anything to prevent the curse from being created. Of course, for all we know, maybe she did thwart a crucial plan here and there. Maybe that’s why it took 250 years.

I think this sort of comes back to Snow’s “Good will always win” mantra. In this show, it’s rarely because good brings out the “big guns” but more because people make appeals to the intrinsic goodness in others. Good wins small victories over the course of time that end up adding up to more than Evil’s big showy ones.

And of course if there hadn’t been a curse things would have been so less interesting. 😉

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[Keb]

She knew the curse would require his sacrificing the heart of the person he loves most. At that point in time, that wasn’t actually possible for him–he had just lost the only person he loved.

Part of me wonders if that’s part of why he sent Belle away–fear that if he actually did give in and let himself love her completely, he’d destroy her.

Or maybe BF knew he couldn’t do that to someone he really loved (cuz, seriously, the worst thing he was ever able to do to Belle was send her away and shake her a bit, and the worst thing he ever did to Bae was let go of him–big things but not intentional harm, just fear taking over–while Regina was actually capable of taking her father’s heart and killing him while loving him). Of course there’s the complication of what he ultimately did to Cora, but love can turn to hate pretty quickly under some circumstances. (And it wasn’t true love, even if neither was playing the other.)

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

Part of me wonders if that’s part of why he sent Belle away–fear that if he actually did give in and let himself love her completely, he’d destroy her.

Of this I have no doubt. I think he knew that if she stayed around, he would have to sacrifice her to get the Curse to work and he loves her but he needed to find his son.

I think we need more information about her powers and this is what led to my original question. Are her…fluctuating…powers because of agenda or because she’s become A and E’s plot device. Stick her where they need her without any explanation.

There was a theory awhile back about how the BF was responsible for the Dark One’s Curse, and it sort of went two ways. 1) In order to get rid of the darkness that’s inside her (that’s inside us all) she used the dagger to more or less cut it out and that’s what created the Dark One’s Curse. 2) She was in love with a mortal man and used the dagger to turn him immortal but it backfired and he became the first Dark One. Hence why she’s so against Dreamy and Nova.

I guess what I really need before I give up entirely on Sneaky Fairy is Sneaky, is a backstory.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

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