which characters you hate? (no flaming or bashing allowed)

[thelonebamf]

@Keb wrote:

Part of me wonders if that’s part of why he sent Belle away–fear that if he actually did give in and let himself love her completely, he’d destroy her.

Oh. Oh my. That brings a delicious new meaning to the line “No one could ever love me!”, now doesn’t it. Kinnnnnda want to play with that idea now.

But then, he had groomed Regina with the explicit purpose of having her be the one to carry out the curse, so at this point I don’t think he was planning on doing it himself. Still, not good to have that vulnerability.

Of course there’s the complication of what he ultimately did to Cora, but love can turn to hate pretty quickly under some circumstances. (And it wasn’t true love, even if neither was playing the other.)

It’s really interesting to me that this show has shown us a wide spectrum of love with a single character. I don’t doubt for a minute that Rumplestiltskin loved Milah when they were married. She says she never really loved him, but I have to think that surely, if only for a short time she must have. They seemed happy enough before he returned from the Ogre Wars. Did she just marry him because there weren’t any hot pirates around that day?

And then Cora and Rumple. Both confess to loving one another- enough so that they are already thinking about the child they’ll have in the future. Again, he seems genuine, but her faith in her ability to carry out their plans is what’s shaken. So her love wasn’t true because she wasn’t willing to fight for it? Or perhaps because it wasn’t as strong as her fears? (Both are qualities Belle exhibits in spades.)

It’s interesting that Belle is possibly the woman he knows for the shortest period of time, and one that he did not consider a romantic interest until- well, almost til the end. (He cared for her, was fond of her, “grew accustomed to her face” but I don’t think he realized true feelings until the day he let her go and eventually sent her away.) Of course by this time he’s dealing with so much rejection that it’s no wonder thinks he’s being used.

I don’t think we’ve seen another character be genuinely invested in as many romantic relationships as Rumple, even if they all seem to go poorly. (Well, surely Belle will turn out just fine, but it’s been a bumpy road to say the least.) He definitely wasn’t lying when he said he was “full of love”. XD

Edit: Regarding Blue Fairy, I vote- like Henry that she’s become a plot device. Such are the pitfalls with a large cast of characters who all have double lives. It’s twice the story to cover!

[RumplesGirl]

“grew accustomed to her face

He was so used to hear her say, good morning everyday.

I don’t think we’ve seen another character be genuinely invested in as many romantic relationships as Rumple, even if they all seem to go poorly.

That’s one of the things I love most about Rumple. You would think that has the Dark One he wouldn’t know how to love, but he loves very deeply. Even when it’s a dark sadistic love like Cora (I maintain that if Belle made him want to go back to the best version of himself, Cora made him want to be the worst version)

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

Rumple’s love is the only thing that keeps him human at all. And the demon he took on with the Dark One curse is a pretty powerful one.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[thelonebamf]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

“grew accustomed to her face

He was so used to hear her say, good morning everyday.

^_^ You’re great.

That’s one of the things I love most about Rumple. You would think that has the Dark One he wouldn’t know how to love, but he loves very deeply. Even when it’s a dark sadistic love like Cora (I maintain that if Belle made him want to go back to the best version of himself, Cora made him want to be the worst version)

This is actually very astute. I wonder if the two of them had stayed together his heart would eventually have been corrupted to the point where he didn’t care about Bae any more. That’s sort of dreadful to imagine. That core is what makes the character likable. With Cora I think he would have descended into true and irredeemable darkness, and the two of them would have eventually have grown apart and some sort of awful magical war would have ravaged the land. Yikes.

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[RumplesGirl]

This is actually very astute. I wonder if the two of them had stayed together his hear would eventually have been corrupted to the point where he didn’t care about Bae any more. That’s sort of dreadful to imagine. That core is what makes the character likable. With Cora I think he would have descended into true and irredeemable darkness, and the two of them would have eventually have grown apart and some sort of awful magical war would have ravaged the land. Yikes.

I think this is exactly what would have happened. So thank you Cora, for ripping out your own heart. *golly, I’m glad that woman is dead*

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thelonebamf]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

This is actually very astute. I wonder if the two of them had stayed together his hear would eventually have been corrupted to the point where he didn’t care about Bae any more. That’s sort of dreadful to imagine. That core is what makes the character likable. With Cora I think he would have descended into true and irredeemable darkness, and the two of them would have eventually have grown apart and some sort of awful magical war would have ravaged the land. Yikes.

I think this is exactly what would have happened. So thank you Cora, for ripping out your own heart. *golly, I’m glad that woman is dead*

Let’s raise a glass to Cora’s uncertainty!

Actually, something that bothered me about “The Miller’s Daughter”- why does nobody bat an eyelash when Cora announces that her daughter will one day be Queen? Isn’t that exceptionally poor form? If Cora herself was 6th in line then Regina would be even further from the crown by the time she was of age (assuming the 1-5 placeholders all had children themselves). Granted all of my throne-usurping knowledge comes from Richard III, but I always thought saying those sorts of things were enough to get you accused of treason.

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[RumplesGirl]

Actually, something that bothered me about “The Miller’s Daughter”- why does nobody bat an eyelash when Cora announces that her daughter will one day be Queen? Isn’t that exceptionally poor form? If Cora herself was 6th in line then Regina would be even further from the crown by the time she was of age (assuming the 1-5 placeholders all had children themselves). Granted all of my throne-usurping knowledge comes from Richard III, but I always thought saying those sorts of things were enough to get you accused of treason.

I agree. It isn’t something you announce, you make your plans to usurp the kingdom in secret, behind closed doors! If I was King Joaquin, I would have been insanely nervous at that point. But I also think he knew Regina was going to be a big player and maybe didn’t want to cross her. Rumple may have been jilted, but I wouldn’t want to cross the ex-love of the Dark One. But yeah, she Rafiki-ed Regina and made that announcement in public…not a good idea.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thelonebamf]

Was their relationship common knowledge? Or even uncommon knowledge? She was going ahead with wedding preparations etc, do you think anyone in the kingdom was wise to the fact that she was involved with the Dark One? (Not like anyone was going to say anything due to their own fears, but still.) I question whether they even knew that it was his influence that granted her power. (There’s a good chance they might have had a “Thanks, but no thanks” attitude if they knew early enough- better not to get tangled up in dealings even remotely related to Rumplestiltskin even if your kingdom is on the brink of bankruptcy.)

This doesn’t really change the fact that they would likely have been too afraid of Cora’s power to say anything at the time of her announcement, but it’s just interesting for me to think about. I wonder if Henry might have made a, “Uh, dear- what you said back there…” comment when they were alone. He clearly grew to fear her over time.

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[RumplesGirl]

King Xavier: Love is weakness. It isn’t for hard women like you. That should make your choice easier.

Cora: What choice?

King Xavier: Run off with the evil imp you don’t think anyone knows about, in the name of love, or stand next to my son with a crown on your head and citizens at your feet.

Seems like it was common knowledge. (also, my bad. His name as Xavier, not Joaquin)

I think there is loads more to the Cora/Rumple story. We still don’t know how she knew about the dagger, or when Rumple held Regina as a baby or if she learned more magic from him. Or when he gave her the book.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

I hope they can get to the rest of the story. While she had a slightly different feel than Barbara, Rose was also great as Cora. I also was interested by Xavier for some reason. Not only is he the origin of “Love is weakness”–it seemed like he bonded with Cora over his own son (the remark when saying he knew about her visitor and that there wasn’t much there to love in his son). Maybe that’s why Cora could Rafiki Regina–Xavier was impressed with Cora and her ambition, so it was a matter of time.

I’d love it if in telling this backstory, we find out Xavier has an older son who was supposed to inherit, and he’s a spendthrift useless Prince named Naveen….and Cora turns him into a frog 😛 But really, any backstory will be great.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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