which characters you hate? (no flaming or bashing allowed)

[obisgirl]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

honestly I just need more of his backstory. That’s what did it for Rumple. Between A Desperate Soul and Skin Deep you see a totally different side to Rumple that changed a lot of people’s opinions about him.

Next season, we know we’re going to Neverland, so there’s sure to be LOTS of backstory for Hook.

[Keb]

I think for Hook, Belle is an extension of Rumple. And when he hurts her, it’s to hurt Rumple, yes, but he does try to reason a bit with Belle on the ship (from his perspective). I think if she had agreed to help him in the tower, he would have rescued her rather than trying to kill her (and at that point, killing her was probably more self-defense than anything else–she could have warned Rumple if she got out, and she could have told Regina who’d been there if not), and if she had not defended Rumple in the ship, but had been willing to see things from Hook’s perspective, he would have protected her, or at least left her unharmed–he had the chance to kill her right away and didn’t. Even when he did shoot her (and yes, that hurts), he says immediately after that she’ll live–so he intentionally did not kill her. He only removed her memories, which is no worse than her own father tried to do (even if it is pretty horrible). It was cruel to Rumple and eventually cruel to Belle, but Hook could easily have argued, like Regina or Moe, that he was sparing her a lifetime of misery there.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[obisgirl]

I agree Keb.

[RumplesGirl]

I agree that Belle is an extension of Rumple and that by hurting Belle Hook’s hurting Rumple. Hook even says so: “I hurt his heart. Belle’s just where he keeps it.” But his justification wasn’t because he thought he was saving Belle from a lifetime if misery, but because he wanted to hurt Rumple. He wasn’t looking out for Belle’s best interest (like Moe was, however misguided and stupid), he was getting revenge and that’s the problem I have.

Did you see his face? His one true love, gone in an instant! Just like Milah, crocodile! When you took her from me…

He deliberately hurt an innocent in his quest for revenge(whether Milah was an innocent is a whole other conversation). Hook even says afterwards to Emma, “I did some quality damage to my foe.” It had nothing to do with saving Belle from Rumple in my opinion.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

No, but he could have argued that way and probably would have if anyone acted like they cared more about Belle’s welfare. But yes, it was more about hurting Rumple than anything else.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[kfchimera]

I agree with RumplesGirl–there’s a huge difference between Moe’s actions and Hook’s actions, since the intent, method and results are all different. In English/American concepts of criminal justice, intent and results both matter. That’s why attempted murder usually gets a lesser sentence than murder, and there’s few actions that are considered criminal regardless of your intent (only example I can recall off hand easily is statutory rape). Why you do what you do matters almost as much as what you do, and in some cases, what happens because of what you did.

Belle was not willing to forgive her own father for attempting to erase her memories–so you might think there would be no way she would easily forgive Hook. Except of course, the only way she’d remember the circumstances of what she lost would be if she got the memories back. So in a way, she might have been more upset about the attempt by her own father (because how could her father have so little love and respect for her as to try that!), than the actual loss caused by Hook. I do look forward to seeing if they will have Belle reassess Hook’s “rottenness” at some point.

I’ve seen someone compare Hook’s actions in the finale to Han Solo–but to me, it was more a Lando Calrissian move. Hook helped set the fail-safe thing in motion, by helping GOAT, then turning on them, and stealing away with the last bean, after tricking the “heroes”. So Hook’s return and offer of aid is a bit tainted by that to me. Without getting into details from Empire Strikes Back, the point is, a short betrayal like that is something the audience can forgive so long as no lasting harm is done to the heroes. The results, the fact that there is no lasting harm, is what keeps us from hating the character, regardless if the character had some shifty intentions at an earlier point in the story.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[obisgirl]

@KFChimera wrote:

I do look forward to seeing if they will have Belle reassess Hook’s “rottenness” at some point.

I’d like to see that too.

@KFChimera wrote:

I’ve seen someone compare Hook’s actions in the finale to Han Solo–but to me, it was more a Lando Calrissian move. Hook helped set the fail-safe thing in motion, by helping GOAT, then turning on them, and stealing away with the last bean, after tricking the “heroes”. So Hook’s return and offer of aid is a bit tainted by that to me. Without getting into details from Empire Strikes Back, the point is, a short betrayal like that is something the audience can forgive so long as no lasting harm is done to the heroes. The results, the fact that there is no lasting harm, is what keeps us from hating the character, regardless if the character had some shifty intentions at an earlier point in the story.

I can see that comparison working, but Hook coming back and helping to save the day, that’s still Han. 😀

[kfchimera]

Lando switches sides to help save the day after tricking them, he agrees to go on a search to find Han, just like Hook is now assisting with the search to find Henry. Either way though, Lando and Han both end up as heroes.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

So we did Hook and Henry post finale, but what about Regina? I’ve never been overly sympathetic to her, but her line “let me die as Regina” really hit hard. This season Regina has been accused of becoming a bit of lunatic and so over the top that it’s hard to like her at all. Did the finale change anyone’s mind about her? I am really interested to see how she acts in S3. Will she stay on the side of good? What about when the JR crew get Henry back, will she go back to fighting the Charmings? Will Regina and Snow ever be friendly?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[obisgirl]

Regina is a wild card.

There are times I feel sympathetic towards her and then she turns around and does something and I’m back to being unsympathetic. I did feel for her in the finale when she was willing to sacrifice herself to save the town. That was very bold of her.

Time will tell next season if after the Charmings rescue Henry, she stays good or crosses over to the Dark side again. I think that rivalry with Emma over Henry will always be there, so it’s doubtful that she will stay good for the long term.

So, I’m with the “wait and see” attitude.

[Author]

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