which characters you hate? (no flaming or bashing allowed)

[obisgirl]

@Keb wrote:

I think the library (and possibly bedroom library–the pillow is totally on the bed/couch in the corner of the scene) was his way of thanking her for stopping him. When he realized what he would have been doing by killing Robin Hood, it hit super close to home. Belle saved him from committing a crime he would have hated himself for later. (You know, more than he already hates himself.)

I’d say it also reflects a blossoming affection for his caretaker, but I think that’s what his logic was in his mind.

Yes, I agree.

Once again, awesome character break down analysis thelonebamf. I read that whole thing from beginning to end.

I agree, Rumpel giving Belle the library (even as another space to clean) was definitely “testing the waters of a potential relationship.”

Over all, I think the episode was less about Belle falling in love, rather more about Rumpel opening himself up to love. With Skin Deep, you see the reverse: Belle seeing Rumpel in a different light and falling in love with him.

[thelonebamf]

@ Keb- ah, you are so right. I hadn’t even really thought about what the fallout would be if he’d killed Robin straight away only to realize Marion was pregnant with their child. I think you are absolutely right about the library being much more of a thank you gift than any sort of attempt at wooing Belle. You’re absolutely right about the self loathing aspect as well, and that becomes very apparent with the events of ‘Skin Deep’. (I sort of want to edit all the flashback scenes in chronological order now…)

@ Obisgirl- Thanks. ^_^;; I promise I will work on being more concise in the future. I just feel so many ways about stuff! I think you’re right about what each episode means in regards to the characters. I think the events seen in the past during “Lacey” didn’t just teach Belle that there was something more within Rumple, but I think it taught him as well. We’re definitely fuzzy on the amount of time that has passed between his becoming the Dark One and his bringing Belle to his castle, but I think it is safe to say that enough time has passed that it’s very likely Rumple himself didn’t realize he was capable of having feelings like the ones Belle insisted he did. After all, in ‘Skin Deep’ he goes so far as to say “I’m not a man”. I think for a very long time before meeting Belle, he believed that to be true. After the events with Robin Hood, I think he decided to open up a bit to Belle, because it was the first time he realized he was still capable of doing so. He wasn’t just testing her, he was testing himself.

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[laurieanne]

You guys are all brilliant. I love that OUAT inspires such debate and passion for the characters. My opinion, after watching Lacey for five times so far, is that Gold/Rumple is showing us way more in the way of expression and tenderness than in any other episode. We are definitely seeing a more vulnerable Gold. Even at the end, when he is beating Keith with the cane, right before that he says that it “doesn’t matter anymore.” I think we are seeing Gold/Rumple being the worst when he has no clue what to do next.

[obisgirl]

@thelonebamf wrote:

@ Obisgirl- Thanks. ^_^;; I promise I will work on being more concise in the future. I just feel so many ways about stuff! I think you’re right about what each episode means in regards to the characters.

.

You write your arguments so well, honestly, I don’t mind reading what you write. Normally, I don’t like reading lengthy posts, but your stuff, it doesn’t bother me.

[thelonebamf]

@obisgirl wrote:

@thelonebamf wrote:

@ Obisgirl- Thanks. ^_^;; I promise I will work on being more concise in the future. I just feel so many ways about stuff! I think you’re right about what each episode means in regards to the characters.

.

You write your arguments so well, honestly, I don’t mind reading what you write. Normally, I don’t like reading lengthy posts, but your stuff, it doesn’t bother me.

Well color me embarrassed. With any luck I hope to use my powers for good and maybe turn my hand to some fic in the near future. ^_^7

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."

[obisgirl]

please share here when you do 😀

[Keb]

Yeah, that moment when he loses all hope and falls into despair…such a beautiful and sad echo of Snow’s and Regina’s despairing moments. Being good isn’t getting them anywhere, so they give up entirely. Emma had a couple moments like that in season one, though not as severe (she just uses less-than-legal methods for investigation, rather than, you know, tricking her stepmother into killing her step-grandmother, plotting to kill her son’s entire biofamily, or beating a man who was just trying to apologize into a pulp…).

I find this theme so terribly relatable sometimes. I mean, we all get frustrated when doing the right things the right way doesn’t bring us the results we think we have earned. Don’t worry, I’m not planning to beat any sheriffs into submission anytime soon. But yeah.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

I just rewatched Lacey for the fifth time (feelings) and I agree with what has been said above. Rumple just looks so broken when he finds Lacey out back with Keith. His line “but that’s what you like about me, the good inside.” is just brilliantly delivered by RC, holding on to the hope of Belle was the only thing keeping him together. It’s interesting that his son doesn’t elicit the same thing. The second he realizes he’s lost Belle (for what he thinks is for good) he goes uber dark. It’s still hard to watch. It’s going to be an agonizing few episodes, if my prediction that Belle returns 21/22 is correct.

Getting back to character we hate: I still can’t decide if Keith knew what was going on. He said to Rumple before Rumple removes his tongue in SB “I didn’t know you two were still together” which makes me think that he thought that was Belle. I really dislike him. I’m good with never seeing him again.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

He doesn’t really have his son back, though. Yeah, Bae wouldn’t let him die and wouldn’t let him die alone, but he’s still angry. There’s no reason to believe that they’ve spoken since Gold recovered. So while Bae might be a reason to be on his best behavior, as Regina points out, he’s not an inspiration the way Belle is. And when he’s that crushed–he’s in exactly the same place Regina was, with Regina being Cora and telling him that the Charmings won’t accept him, and then smashing that last sliver of hope he was clinging to by taking away the one person he had left to love him–completely.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[laurieanne]

I think Keith remembers Rumple and Belle together in FTL. He thought they were “still together.” He hasn’t had any other opportunity to see them together that we know of. I’m not sure if he would be the only one without any memories of his FTL life, unless he was too drunk to remember. (not serious). I still don’t think what he did warranted a beating, but yes, we are talking about Rumple here. Keith should have just let it go. I find it greatly out of character for him to apologize to Rumple and be all casual about it. “So, we’re good then?” Keith, do you know with whom you are talking??? He didn’t seem at all intimidated by Rumple in the EF (or SF?) –Rumple even apologized to him for the intrusion. So Sheriff Keith had some kind of power in EF/SF. Wonder what he does in Storybrooke. He obviously doesn’t feel a calling to be a sheriff. 🙂

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