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Belle should live and be happy with Rumple.
I want that desperately as well…but it would be pretty bad writing for them to be this ridiculously tragic couple and then all of a sudden they get a HEA. I’d be furious that, as a fan, I was denied seeing them happy together at all, for more than a day.
[adrotate group="5"]We’ve talked a lot about Belle’s individual role in her thread so I’m not going to dwell on that but I think the overarching problem is not so much everyone’s individual storyline, despite what I wrote above, but A and E’s writing style and their notion of how to create drama: external violent magical mythology.
Think about S1. What made S1 so great? It was almost all internal drama: David and MM falling in love even though they were cursed, Emma getting ever closer to breaking the curse while simultaneously getting closer to Henry, the son she gave up; Regina trying to drive Emma out of town through various means and only going to magic at the last hour. The way the characters interacted with each other and with the world that wasn’t there’s.
But S2 and S3 has been external drama–GOAT, Cora/Hook, Peter Pan and the Home Office. All the internal beauty that made S1 what it was has been lost or rug swept. There is a lot of development for all these characters when they interact with each other. But A and E, IMO, seem to think that the best way to create watchable TV is to continuously throw more confusion, more plot twists, more family dysfunction on to the fire. I don’t know if they think they need to keep adding iconic characters to keep it interesting, if they have a list of “things Disney has done and therefore we need to do” but at some point you gotta say, “ok. No more mythology, no more lands, how about we let these characters work between themselves.” And the death–which will most likely occur at the hands of the WWW–is for the sake of this ONE story arc. A story arc that will end at 322 before–inevitably–the next big bad, next adventure to part unknown, the next show down. So the death might seem in story for the moment, but when those moments and those arcs fail to carry over, it seems pointless.
Graham is almost never mentioned. Cora hasn’t been brought up since her death. GOAT were totally rug swept. PP will get a passing mention and then be left in the shadows, belonging to S3A. And when Wicked dies–as we know she will because that’s how A and E deal with their big bads–she’ll be forgotten when the new one comes in.
All those deaths were important in the moment but how has it carried over? What emotional drama or drive has it given our cast? And that leads me too: when whoever dies in S3B, will they be forgotten just as quickly?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"RG, I completely agree – and you know that has been a HUGE sticking point with me. Characters don’t interact unless it relates to the major storyline……. I’ve said it before, but A/E treat these fairy tale characters too much like FT characters (in that they have to interact with others in their particular tales, have to interact with magical beings, etc..) and NOT enough like human beings.
Seriously – why the heck go to Oz? Gold’s curse at this point ? Break it – I mean, they broke the original curse because they didn’t want the show to become only about that…..and I LOVED their guts in doing that. Gold has changed, what is the point of the curse now? Just to give them thrills at seeing the WW controlling him so they can still write him doing bad things without it being his fault? Why not deal with the ramifications of his mortality? Don’t they understand how HUGE the storyline potential is there?
S1 was magical, it was fun – it was full of romance, fantasy and adventure. Since then, ONCE has become just like every other show…and yes, I think A/E are like hyperactive boys. They have an amazing premise and they want to use every fictional character they can get their hands on.
I really thought and hoped that, after NL, they’d stick to SB and let things breathe, let the town return to normal, focus on relationships…….Nope. In the end, I think the lack of humanity on the show, the focus on story instead of character, will sink this show
I am leaning more and more towards the death not being purely for story reasons, despite what Adam has said. As a professional, Adam has no choice but to stretch the truth about any possible behind the scenes drama. A Behind the Scenes reason for the death holds more water than the death being story driven, because as RG has said ALL of the regulars have reasons to stick around on the show. The actor who is leaving may very well have his own personal reasons for leaving, but that much isn’t required for public knowledge, despite our frustration. We have to be honest, we don’t know how all of the actors are like once they are away from public eyes. As much as I hate to go back to that PA’s rumor of somebody being written off the show as result of being unhappy, I can’t help but still feel there might be some truth in it. Sadly its a bit too coincidental for that death spoiler to come from an official source right after that PA’s rumor spread around. As far as the death being for “story reasons”, it could still be partially true, but only because Adam and Eddy can write it out to appear that way.
On the topic of internal drama, RG, the death could be a way of dealing with more of that. A death of this magnitude could forever change any of the remaining characters, nor will it likely be something they’ll just forget about that quickly. There will be the internal conflict of how these characters can move forward from their loss.
As for who I personally think will be killed off, I don’t know if I feel comfortable disclosing that here given the sensitivity of some of our fanbase. It would only result in some back and forth debating that has worn itself out.
I am leaning more and more towards the death not being purely for story reasons, despite what Adam has said. As a professional, Adam has no choice but to stretch the truth about any possible behind the scenes drama.
There was a tweet from Adam today in which he said that it was for story reasons when asked if the person leaving was unhappy. But my response (which I didn’t send to Adam out of respect) was: but would you ACTUALLY tell us if it was personal? He’s a businessman as well as a writer and the last think you want is to air your dirty laundry–so to speak. If someone is unhappy or got a bigger offer or simply decided it was time to call it quits, would Adam and Eddy really come out and say that?
Add to this that Adam has told every fan/shipper to “have hope” and then turned around and said, “yes but that was all pre-death” means to me, IMO, that this death wasn’t planned from the start. Either they’ve backed themselves into a corner writing-wise and can’t figure a way out (messy love triangle has turned into an unholy shipping war that the internet talking *badly* about ONCE and Oncers…so kill one of the men) OR someone is unhappy.
On the topic of internal drama, RG, the death could be a way of dealing with more of that. A death of this magnitude could forever change any of the remaining characters, nor will it likely be something they’ll just forget about that quickly. There will be the internal conflict of how these characters can move forward from their loss.
I hope that’s true. But given how our characters react to the other deaths so far–a brief moment of character development (either positive or negative)–and then it’s on to “plot point # 45221” I fear that A and E will only deal with the ramifications of this death insofar as it relates to S3B
As for who I personally think will be killed off, I don’t know if I feel comfortable disclosing that here given the sensitivity of some of our fanbase. It would only result in some back and forth debating that has worn itself out.
That’s why I’ve been keeping my entire conversation neutral, referring to it as just “the person who dies.”
I don’t want to start a war by giving reasons or headcanon for who I think it is.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Sorry do be a Debbie downer, but in keeping with Fairy tale tradition, children seldom grow up with both parents. Meaning, I think either Snow or Charming will die. I know that Henry also technically has both parents, but has lived most of his childhood with only one parent.
On the other hand, let’s consider real life intruding on our storytelling. I wouldn’t be shocked if Jared’s real life family has decided to take Jared back to California and let him go back to a normal life until he’s older.
Sorry do be a Debbie downer, but in keeping with Fairy tale tradition, children seldom grow up with both parents. Meaning, I think either Snow or Charming will die. I know that Henry also technically has both parents, but has lived most of his childhood with only one parent. On the other hand, let’s consider real life intruding on our storytelling. I wouldn’t be shocked if Jared’s real life family has decided to take Jared back to California and let him go back to a normal life until he’s older.
It’s common Disney tradition too. Disney characters have lost one or both of their parents, either before or during their films.
Snow White: Lost both of her parents, and was raised by the Evil Queen.
Pinocchio: Was raised by sole parent, Geppetto.
Bambi: His mom is shot by a hunter.
Cinderella: Mom passes away, and her father gets married to Lady Tremaine. Her father then passes away, leaving Cinderella with stepmother Lady Tremaine and her two stepsisters.
Sleeping Beauty: Rare case where both of Aurora’s parents stay alive, but Aurora is still raised without them.
The Little Mermaid: Ariel’s mother was killed prior to the film, with the details of her death explained in the direct-to-video prequel “Ariel’s Beginnings.” She only has her father King Triton around.
Beauty & The Beast: Belle’s mother is not around, and she only has her father Maurice.
Aladdin: Aladdin neither has his mother and father around. However, Aladdin’s father is discovered to be alive in the direct-to-video sequel “Aladdin and the King of Thieves.” Aladdin still thought his father was dead, and the audience initially assumed the same.
The Lion King: Mufasa is infamously killed onscreen and dies right in front of Simba.
The Hunchback of Notre Dame: Frollo murders Quasimodo’s mother, prior to him reluctantly adopting Quasimodo.
Tarzan: Both of Tarzan’s parents are killed off at the beginning of the film.
The Princess and the Frog: Tiana’s father dies during WWI.
Tangled: Both of Rapunzel’s parents are alive, but she is raised without them for most of her life.
Frozen: Anna and Elsa’s parents are killed off in the first few minutes of the film.
So while yes, there are show and story reasons that A and E have come up with to justify killing one member of this little unit, in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t make sense and I think audience members are going to be turned off.
I dunno. I mean, obviously if someone’s fave character gets killed off, that’s gonna be a major annoyance for that viewer, and all the characters on the hit list have very passionate followings, so no matter what happens, there’s gonna be a chunk of the fandom that’s majorly annoyed.
But with all the fake out deaths, I can see why they might feel the need for an ACTUAL death. Archie didn’t really die, Neal didn’t really die, Blue didn’t really die, Phillip didn’t really die, we can include S1 Henry in that as well. We know Rumple didn’t really die, and actually we can include the whole town of SB itself on this list, because it almost “died” in the S2 finale, but they saved it, and it’s gonna be brought back again in S3B, too. Cora and Pan died but they both had it coming. It’s about time they hit us with another Graham situation. They’ve hit us with the fake out death so many times, how are we supposed to take it seriously or be emotionally affected when someone “dies” now? If you think about it, people “dying” on this show has almost reached a laughable level. An actual death, a real dead means dead situation, would snap us back into line, and show us that the stakes ARE actually really high, that characters we love CAN be killed, we can’t live in that false sense of security, they really do mean serious business, no more pussy footing around without having the guts to comprehensively axe a character for real.
So, much as I hate that one of our core characters is gonna die, I do think it’s a calculated move from a storytelling standpoint, designed to shake things up and raise the stakes.
RumplesGirl wrote: So while yes, there are show and story reasons that A and E have come up with to justify killing one member of this little unit, in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t make sense and I think audience members are going to be turned off.
I dunno. I mean, obviously if someone’s fave character gets killed off, that’s gonna be a major annoyance for that viewer, and all the characters on the hit list have very passionate followings, so no matter what happens, there’s gonna be a chunk of the fandom that’s majorly annoyed. But with all the fake out deaths, I can see why they might feel the need for an ACTUAL death. Archie didn’t really die, Neal didn’t really die, Blue didn’t really die, Phillip didn’t really die, we can include S1 Henry in that as well. We know Rumple didn’t really die, and actually we can include the whole town of SB itself on this list, because it almost “died” in the S2 finale, but they saved it, and it’s gonna be brought back again in S3B, too. Cora and Pan died but they both had it coming. It’s about time they hit us with another Graham situation. They’ve hit us with the fake out death so many times, how are we supposed to take it seriously or be emotionally affected when someone “dies” now? If you think about it, people “dying” on this show has almost reached a laughable level. An actual death, a real dead means dead situation, would snap us back into line, and show us that the stakes ARE actually really high, that characters we love CAN be killed, we can’t live in that false sense of security, they really do mean serious business, no more pussy footing around without having the guts to comprehensively axe a character for real. So, much as I hate that one of our core characters is gonna die, I do think it’s a calculated move from a storytelling standpoint, designed to shake things up and raise the stakes.
Agreed. Continuing to play it safe with all the regulars having plot armor to keep them alive might keep fans happy, but at the same time it can make the story boring at times. How are we supposed to take any of these threats on the show seriously if we keep fooling ourselves with the illusion that all of the core group is automatically safe? Yes it would be nice for all of them to get their happy ending, but that’s not the way life works. Life can throw us a curve ball, and death can occur at any time, no matter who it is. The death of a regular character is guaranteed to shake things up much more than a predictable death such as Cora and Peter Pan. I also have to agree that I am tired of fake-outs. You can only go so far with faking deaths on this show, before it gets tiresome.
This thread is just to put your guess of who dies so that when the episode airs, we can see who guessed correctly. My guess is Hook or Henry Hook because they seemed to be trying to push the “man of honour” aspect with Hook in 3A so I think it would be fitting for Hook to die as a true “man of honour” by sacrificing himself for Neal, Emma or Henry. Henry because he’s the show’s biggest plot device and his death would affect all the other characters.
My guess is Hook. It will take a lot to convice me otherwise, even with recent Neal spoilers.
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