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season 3? season 3? are you kidding? in season 2
when Gold goes to Charming for advice about Lacy Charming says that you caused my wife to murder someone….. murder someone…………. yeah……….. someone who’d have killed all of you…..
does Charming ever stop and think where he and Snow would BE without Rumpelstiltskin? I know, DEAD, that’s where they’d all be.SOMEONE’S got to be the villain, the scapegoat, the dark one, the hated, so that the good people would have a chance at happiness…
[adrotate group="5"]I’ve actually liked Charming in season 3. However, I don’t really like season 3 Snow. Snow has had times where she seems to be a bit too insensitive even for her. For example, Hook and Charming agree to keep Pan’s info about Neal a secret from Emma until they can ascertain whether or not it is true then tell her. Snow just blurts it out because that what SHE wants to do. In the echo caves when she admitted she wanted another child, it wasn’t because she wanted to extend the family out of love, it was because SHE didn’t get to play mom to Emma, her and Emma’s current relationship isn’t what SHE wanted, which is a horrible thing to say especially to Emma who has major abandonment issues and was given back to the care system after her first family had a new child.
I liked when Hook called Snow “demanding” because he is right. Charming was in the middle of trying to track down the wicked witch with Emma and Hook when Snow calls him up and tells him to basically drop everything and come meet the midwife.
It seems Snow has become very “me me me” and I think that is going to come back and bite her at the end of season 3.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI liked when Hook called Snow “demanding” because he is right. Charming was in the middle of trying to track down the wicked witch with Emma and Hook when Snow calls him up and tells him to basically drop everything and come meet the midwife. It seems Snow has become very “me me me” and I think that is going to come back and bite her at the end of season 3.
Snow has always been “me me me”…. and a small part of me still believe that she told Regina’s secret on purpose…..but I’m slowly getting over it with the help of Outlaw Queen!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I’d try and follow that thread if you make it Grimmsistr 🙂 If not, here are some thoughts:
I think they do a pretty good job of “selectively” blending, or attempting to blend good and evil. Their moments of well thought out character development shine, even hidden among the painfully presented *duh*/filler stuff! The writers have made Snow, in particular, do some of the *dumb to the bone* things I mentioned. But every character has had their *excuse meeee, whaaaat?* moments. I just hope they don’t shift to the *duh* side any further.
It may not be the best of consistent writing (and I still hold with the belief that they are hampered a lot with the 41 minutes of commercial riddled air time, non-cable, Sunday Family before 9, time slot . It SUCKS.) But the potential is still irresistible. (like you, I feel that the *gut* level of the writing is often lacking. Fans often come up with some much more intensely interesting twists and turns!) It takes quite the talent to tackle the challenge of tweaking formulaic writing. A and E and writers hit, then miss, then knock some things out of the park.
The line between struggling, flawed heroes and wretched villains can get very thin…the line between principled protagonist and dimwitted goody goody can be stretched to extreme limits, too… and the speed in which they choose to unfold and intertwine the plotlines is a detriment to great writing. TV audiences are fickle and all have a certain depth of ADD. They aren’t patient. I think viewers hurt themselves in that regard because the studios/writers feed the attention spans of the audiences. Vicious cycle.
They’ve done some really good things with Rumple and Regina, Cora, Hook, Emma…and numerous secondary characters. Even the Charmings! Some leave us shaking our heads. But they are actually in there fighting the good fight of providing an intriguing tale for us. Shrugggg…
… the unavoidable nature of the television beast.
***Always in search of a good flock***
RG, I agree that the villains must have a great plan and be super cunning. But, unfortunately, this season it is a bit at the heroes’ cost.
I do agree with that. It would be better if Snow weren’t so “let’s be BFFs!!!!” with the perfect stranger who likes to touch her stomach and wears gaudy jewelry despite being a peasant in another land.
Yeah. You’d think a woman claiming to be a peasant would be awfully suspicious wearing a huge green emerald around her neck.
The Charming’s and really most of the good guys tend to make decisions by what their hearts are telling them, to believe & trust others based on words, makes decisions based on emotions, more right brained. The villains, like Rumple, Regina & Cora use their brains more, strategy & proof, plus they need to shut down their emotions in order to the awful things they are capable of doing, more left brained.
Now Emma is a combination of both, whole brain. She thinks through stuff and can strategize. She has to being a bails bond person. But she also uses her gut instincts and her emotions can cloud her judgement and cripple her when she can’t control them. I think Emma becoming more of a Mom to Henry has helped her to learn to control her emotions better, though. I think her control or lack there of her emotions is why her superpower sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t. Interesting how it always seems to work on Hook though, regardless of what she is feeling at the time.
I think Killian is whole brained too. He’s not a true villain. He can think, rationalize, strategize and focus for years on something, like his revenge. He can shut down his emotions to allow himself to do awful things. Yet when he lacks control of his emotions, that’s what caused him to seek revenge and dwell on it for so long in the first place. He also makes quick decisions based on instincts and his emotions at the time. I think it was his powerful emotions that made his quick decisions to become a pirate, to run off with Milah, to suddenly drop his revenge, and now to fall for Emma so hard happen. It’s one reason why I like Hook so much. Just a thought.
Nothing is impossible on OUAT. Everything has a way of repeating itself. Keeper of the Keeper tread: https://oncepodcast.com/forums/topic/official-keeper-thread-3/#post-217924
I’d try and follow that thread if you make it Grimmsistr
If not, here are some thoughts: I think they do a pretty good job of “selectively” blending, or attempting to blend good and evil. Their moments of well thought out character development shine, even hidden among the painfully presented *duh*/filler stuff! The writers have made Snow, in particular, do some of the *dumb to the bone* things I mentioned. But every character has had their *excuse meeee, whaaaat?* moments. I just hope they don’t shift to the *duh* side any further. It may not be the best of consistent writing (and I still hold with the belief that they are hampered a lot with the 41 minutes of commercial riddled air time, non-cable, Sunday Family before 9, time slot . It SUCKS.) But the potential is still irresistible. (like you, I feel that the *gut* level of the writing is often lacking. Fans often come up with some much more intensely interesting twists and turns!) It takes quite the talent to tackle the challenge of tweaking formulaic writing. A and E and writers hit, then miss, then knock some things out of the park. The line between struggling, flawed heroes and wretched villains can get very thin…the line between principled protagonist and dimwitted goody goody can be stretched to extreme limits, too… and the speed in which they choose to unfold and intertwine the plotlines is a detriment to great writing. TV audiences are fickle and all have a certain depth of ADD. They aren’t patient. I think viewers hurt themselves in that regard because the studios/writers feed the attention spans of the audiences. Vicious cycle. They’ve done some really good things with Rumple and Regina, Cora, Hook, Emma…and numerous secondary characters. Even the Charmings! Some leave us shaking our heads. But they are actually in there fighting the good fight of providing an intriguing tale for us. Shrugggg… … the unavoidable nature of the television beast. I suppose we can carry on the convo on this thread unless ready_to_Rumbelle throw us out 🙂
I agree that its all still a very good tale. Otherwise I wouldnt still be watching. But I do wish they wouldnt give in so much to the unavoidable television Beast as you call it XD and just try to write a good story not for the shipper-fans or any other fans or for the sake of keeping the Network happy. But to make the story best as they possibly can. If all these power and moneyhungry peeps behind the Beast werent there, or atleast realized they didnt need all them Money to make good tv, there wouldnt be no unavoidable tv-monster.. so it is avoidable if we and they stop feading it.
But probs to them still. I cant take away the good that they have done with the show. Like the idea to blend fairytales in the first place.
But I think they do rush certain Things and drag others out to much. Because they do have to ‘please the fans’ and the Network. And sometimes that Hurts the story. Going back to the Charmings- They often are horribly written and inconsistent.. like we have Bandit Snow in the one end and then depressed Snow in the other, depressed because she thinks she has done something wrong… Bandit Snow would own that and move on. I suppose they can put that on the fact that Bandit Snow and Mary Margereth/Snow are two different versions, but then they didnt do a good job or had too Little time to really paint that Picture. Snows character just annoys me alot, because they could do so much with her and they do so Little. And that really goes for the Charming David too. Who is he, other than an extension of a sword?
The good Guys are too goody-two-shoes I think.. Emma is alright, because she is complicated and has done Things that flawed her character, like giving Henry up and having trouble coming to terms with being a mother. So they do a good job writing her I think. But with all the time they have had now coming up to the 4th season soon. They could have done so much better with a lot of them.
I suppose we can carry on the convo on this thread unless ready_to_Rumbelle throw us out
No, get out of here 😛 (just kidding). I hoped to start a discussion about characters and the way they are written while creating this thread, so of course it makes sense to also discuss certain influences on the writing. I got the impression that A&E are trying their best not to be too much influenced by fans or the network. Nevertheless, they realized how immensely popular (Rum)Belle and Hook immediately became and decided to include them more than they might have originally intended to, which surely makes sense. But while reacting to fans, they still try to involve these characters in the stories they have planned to tell and not deviate too much just in order to include them (to please the fans). However, it is a bit amusing that OUAT is a PG-rated TV show but on the other hand A&E have a tendency to write their villains better than the heroes. They managed to have Regina and Rumple do horrible things and people can’t help themselves but still love them.
I agree, Grimmsistr, that the Charmings are sometimes written inconsistently. It seems like Snow and MM are two completely different persons, which can be confusing and irritating especially since she is the only one whose SB counterpart post-curse is different to the pre-curse FTL character. While Emma and Snow were in the EF during the first part of S2, she reminded me again of the old one, I grew to like during S1, but now in S3, she’s just self-absorbed, naive and insensitive towards Emma and Charming.
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