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¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
Ultimately it’s going to come down to whether or not A and E have the guts to do an unambiguous LGBT character. whoever that may be. ONCE has a serious representation problem and it’d be nice to see them try to acknowledge that and change.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Wow… this discussion took a really weird turn O-o
Thirdly, taking it as seriously as Outlaw Queen and Regina….uhhh….yeah I’m just going to choose not to respond to that at all. But then again… if something isn’t going the way I like it, then thank God for fanfiction, where anything can happen. #What’sCanonIsCanon
Can I just ask what you mean by the first part of this statement? Since I know you are a true OQ and Regina fan, your statement kind of sounds like you’re saying Queer-Elsa fans don’t have a place to feel as passionately about our shippyness as you do for yours. Forgive me if I’m reading it wrong though.
Also, on the second part of this quote you mention that if something isn’t going the way you like then you can just go to fanfiction sites for your fix. Now, imagine that the ONLY place you could go to get your het-relationship fix was on fanfiction sites – this is the reality of LGBTQ people every day.
Unfortunately, often the only place we can get queer relationships ‘on’ our favourite shows is to read another queer fan’s fiction. And I don’t think you realise what a privilege it is to get to dismiss these issues with things like #What’sCanonIsCanon, when the VAST MAJORITY of romantic relationships in media are heterosexual. You don’t have to fight for representation, you don’t have your hopes dashed all the time when writers subtly hint at a het relationship only for it to turn out non-canon (Mulora), you don’t see het relationships used en mass to drum-up controversy in order to bring in viewers, you don’t see het characters as being defined solely by their sexual orientation, you don’t see het relationships being used as eye-candy (as with a lot of on-screen lesbian romances), you don’t have to worry about one of your fave characters being killed off because the novelty of their sexuality has worn off with the viewers (has happened a few times on some shows I’ve seen where they’ve introduced lesbian characters), etc. Honestly the list goes on and on, and sometimes it can get a little depressing.
It is a privilege to see one of your fave ships not come true and be able to shrug it off because pretty much all the other shows you watch do canonise your ships (or second fave ships). When a queer character goes without there is no ‘oh well, at least Tracy is with Mary on that other show I like…’. We, the queer fandom, get whatever dregs they decide to give us IF they decide to give us anything at all. We used to accept this, but now we are a lot more vocal.
Sorry if this is very long winded, I’m just really passionate about the state of LGBTQ media representation, and the frequent bad treatment of LGBTQ characters whenever they do decide to grant us one.
"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"*treading carefully* …. well just to ask this question, is it wrong to assume that a character is straight until proven otherwise?
I don’t think it’s wrong to assume a character is straight until proven otherwise just like it isn’t wrong to assume a character is homosexual until proven otherwise. Different strokes for different folks.
Everybody has their own opinion on a character, neither opinion is wrong until evidence is shown to the contrary, and even then people will still believe what they want to believe. Everything is open to interpretation and it just makes things that much richer.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixAlso, I put this in another thread but I think it could do with being put here too. It may give newcomers to this thread some background on the whole Queer-Elsa thing;
Mulora was so minuscule it was almost an insult. It was like they were just throwing the LGBTQ fans a bone, as a way to say ‘here, have this and shut up!’. It went nowhere and was consequently nothing.
As for Elsa… she’s more a gay-icon than an icon who is gay. Of course we don’t know for sure but the ambiguity and lack of development surrounding Elsa has allowed fans to craft Elsa into their own character. Her story mimics, almost perfectly, the struggle most LGBTQ people have to go through when coming out of the closet. THAT’S why we’ve sort of ‘hijacked’ her, and claimed her as ‘one of us’.
"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"In X-Men 2, Iceman telling his parents he was a mutant was written and played as a “coming out” scene.
People tend to identify with aspects of fictional characters which in turn make them like the characters. If there was a character you couldn’t identify with at least on some level, chances are you won’t like that character.
Some people see Elsa as an LGBT character because of her experiences, they identify with her experiences as similar to their own on a metaphorical level.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixAlso, I put this in another thread but I think it could do with being put here too. It may give newcomers to this thread some background on the whole Queer-Elsa thing;
Mulora was so minuscule it was almost an insult. It was like they were just throwing the LGBTQ fans a bone, as a way to say ‘here, have this and shut up!’. It went nowhere and was consequently nothing. As for Elsa… she’s more a gay-icon than an icon who is gay. Of course we don’t know for sure but the ambiguity and lack of development surrounding Elsa has allowed fans to craft Elsa into their own character. Her story mimics, almost perfectly, the struggle most LGBTQ people have to go through when coming out of the closet. THAT’S why we’ve sort of ‘hijacked’ her, and claimed her as ‘one of us’.
The best explanation I’ve received on this topic! Thank you Felie! It does put things into a new perspective when viewing this topic!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I also think it’s important to note that those of us who wish Elsa to be a lesbian on ONCE don’t want her entire story to be “OMG Elsa is a lesbian!!!” We’ve had a lot of conversations about an acceptance storyline and most of us would rather ONCE not make a big deal out of “accepting” Elsa. WE’d rather it just be part of who she is and that it’s as normal and regular as heterosexual love (because it is).
Elsa is at the top of the list, but really…most of us in here just want representation for LGBT people, if you’re queer or not (like myself. I’m an ally). Representation is a serious problem on ONCE, and not just in queer relationships and we’ve had a lot of talk about why that is, how they could do it on ONCE and with whom.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"As for Elsa… she’s more a gay-icon than an icon who is gay. Of course we don’t know for sure but the ambiguity and lack of development surrounding Elsa has allowed fans to craft Elsa into their own character. Her story mimics, almost perfectly, the struggle most LGBTQ people have to go through when coming out of the closet. THAT’S why we’ve sort of ‘hijacked’ her, and claimed her as ‘one of us
Elsa is concerning romance a blank slate. Any kind of shipping going on around Elsa on the wild wild web is practically hickjacking the character, queer as much as hetero shipping. I find it important to point that out, because even us queer people sometimes fall for the trap to see it as something special, probably because we so seldom get the feeling, that it could be something coming true on screen as well. People fantasizing about Elsa being in love, in a relationship with someone are projecting their wishes, hopes, ideas, dreams onto her regardless if they ship her with a man or a woman.
The frequent objection, that a ship is not canon hits queer people far more often, because queer relations on screen are few compared to the vast number of hetero couples to ship, who happen on screen or are at least openly toyed with on screen. Queer people have a lot less opportunities to identify with a character directly.
Interestingly enough though, a significant number of male pairing (slash) fanfiction seems to be still written by women, not by men as one might guess. Recently some mostly female fanfiction writers in China were arrested for posting slash stories (slash usually means it involves more explicit content, the stories written about women’s love are usually called femslash, for those not familiar with the terms). Not the first time btw, but the first time it got a bit of media attention here. Yup, for celebrating your preferred ship you can get arrested in some places of this world (like in Uganda, Russia and other countries defining it as offense to write or say in public, same gender relations are okay) and not “just” face a storm of trolls and bullies (which can be psychologically devastating enough). Most of these flash writing women though seem to be not queer (neither in their sexual orientation nor their gender orientation), exploring probably with these male pairings sides of relationships they don’t feel that safe to explore themselves or in (fictional) het relationships. Female sexuality is something rather hushed, although in the past years in the Western societies a little less, but even here women expressing their sexuality freely are still frequently judged as not properly behaving, while men just let off steam. If anyone wonders: I haven’t read yet about men writing femslash, though doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
Elsa is concerning romance a blank slate. Any kind of shipping going on around Elsa on the wild wild web is practically hickjacking the character, queer as much as hetero shipping. I find it important to point that out, because even us queer people sometimes fall for the trap to see it as something special, probably because we so seldom get the feeling, that it could be something coming true on screen as well. People fantasizing about Elsa being in love, in a relationship with someone are projecting their wishes, hopes, ideas, dreams onto her regardless if they ship her with a man or a woman.
Good point. There are many who ship her with Jack Frost, for instance. Elsa on the whole is being hijacked because she’s a blank slate, as you said. And ONCE canon does not equal Disney Canon, so if ONCE does make her gay, it doesn’t have to mean anything for a Frozen sequel–or it could be what Disney wants. That’s why I hope A and E take a bold move and decide that in creating their own version of Elsa, they decide to take a daring move and have a LBGT character (apart from Mulan who was only acknowledged as LGBT in her final episode)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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