- This topic has 15 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
[adrotate group="5"]
mmm…if Henry sr. and Eva were brother and sister, according to what I got from “The queen is dead” (“the tiara was of my mother and of her mother before her”, etc…) , the kingdom passes from mother to daughter (because if it were inherited in the masculine line, then the royal tiara wouldn’t belong to Eva’s family but to Leopold’s), so, despite Hery being a prince, he couldn’t become an actual king, but a noble bannerman, lord of his own lands, etc…
Besides, if Henry sr. was Eva’s brother… how is it that he didn’t seem to remember Leopold in “The stable boy”? I mean, surely he would remember his sister’s husband. Even more, how is it that he agreed to marry his daughter to her uncle? how is it that Regina didn’t know her cousin? how is it that Eva didn’t visit her brother in all those years? sound strange to me…
@Andreth Stark wrote:
mmm…if Henry sr. and Eva were brother and sister, according to what I got from “The queen is dead” (“the tiara was of my mother and of her mother before her”, etc…) , the kingdom passes from mother to daughter (because if it were inherited in the masculine line, then the royal tiara wouldn’t belong to Eva’s family but to Leopold’s), so, despite Hery being a prince, he couldn’t become an actual king, but a noble bannerman, lord of his own lands, etc…
Besides, if Henry sr. was Eva’s brother… how is it that he didn’t seem to remember Leopold in “The stable boy”? I mean, surely he would remember his sister’s husband. Even more, how is it that he agreed to marry his daughter to her uncle? how is it that Regina didn’t know her cousin? how is it that Eva didn’t visit her brother in all those years? sound strange to me…
It does me too.
@Andreth Stark wrote:
mmm…if Henry sr. and Eva were brother and sister, according to what I got from “The queen is dead” (“the tiara was of my mother and of her mother before her”, etc…) , the kingdom passes from mother to daughter (because if it were inherited in the masculine line, then the royal tiara wouldn’t belong to Eva’s family but to Leopold’s), so, despite Hery being a prince, he couldn’t become an actual king, but a noble bannerman, lord of his own lands, etc…
While Eva did get the tiara from her maternal line, that doesn’t mean she was the crown princess who would become the ruler of her father’s kingdom. (If she had a brother, it’d be his birthright to rule). It just means she was born a royal princess, as could both her mother and maternal grandmother have been. It’s very common for royals to marry other royals, so Eva’s mother was a probably a princesses by birth who then married a king, Eva’s father. Likewise, Princess Eva then became a queen consort (which is a queen not by birth but by marriage) when she married King Leopold, Snow’s father.
As an only child, however, Snow didn’t have to compete with a brother and so would become a queen regnant by birthright of inheriting King Leopold’s throne. By extension, Regina was a only queen consort when she married King Leopold. After she had her husband murdered, Regina had no real right to rule, because Snow White is the rightful queen regnant as Leopold’s daughter. Yet, I think Regina framed Snow for her father’s murder, because if you recall, there was a wanted poster for Snow for murder, treason, and treachery. So,the only reason Regina remained in power was due to her magic and by framing the rightful heir, Snow White, for the murder of her father.
Besides, if Henry sr. was Eva’s brother… how is it that he didn’t seem to remember Leopold in “The stable boy”? I mean, surely he would remember his sister’s husband. Even more, how is it that he agreed to marry his daughter to her uncle? how is it that Regina didn’t know her cousin? how is it that Eva didn’t visit her brother in all those years? sound strange to me…
Those are all really valid points which I’m struggling to answer. I will have to think about it. My initial reaction is that perhaps the Prince Henry who catches Cora’s eye is different from Henry Sr, whom we know she eventually did marry. That would be very confusing if Cora were romantically linked to two different men named Henry, but not impossible. Maybe after being jilted in love by Prince Henry, the son of Xavier, Cora had to settle for lesser nobility, whose name just so happened also to be Henry, which reminded Cora of her true love, Prince Henry. I know, confusing.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
@slurpeez108 wrote:
@Andreth Stark wrote:
mmm…if Henry sr. and Eva were brother and sister, according to what I got from “The queen is dead” (“the tiara was of my mother and of her mother before her”, etc…) , the kingdom passes from mother to daughter (because if it were inherited in the masculine line, then the royal tiara wouldn’t belong to Eva’s family but to Leopold’s), so, despite Hery being a prince, he couldn’t become an actual king, but a noble bannerman, lord of his own lands, etc…
While Eva did get the tiara from her maternal line, that doesn’t mean she was the crown princess who would become the ruler of her father’s kingdom. (If she had a brother, it’d be his birthright to rule). It just means she was born a royal princess, as could both her mother and grandmother have been. It’s very common for royals to marry other royals, so Eva’s mother could have been a princess by birth who then married a king, Eva’s father. If that is true, Eva is royal by both sets of parents. Eva then became a queen, not by birth, but by marriage to King Leopold, Snow’s father. As an only child, however, Snow didn’t have to compete with an older brother to become a queen by birthright. See the difference?
Actually… i don’t. Well, yes, i a manner of speaking, but let me explain my point; First of all, tiaras, crowns, and other royalty symbols, were not a personal belonging, but the symbol of the status. I mean, it was the heir who got them. A queen in those times was a “queen consort”, that is to say, if there is a tiara for the queen, it goes to the queen who goes after her in that kingdom. If the king sent his daughter to marry other prince, then she would inherit the tiara, crown, etc… of this new kingdom she is going to be queen of, since those are symbols, not belongings. For instance, when Isabella I the Catholic sent her daughter to England to marry Henry VIII, Catherine of Aragon didn’t bring with her her mother’s royal jewels, since she was not the heir of them; she had to wear her new land’s royal jewelry.
Secondly, in a medieval settlement with traditional male lineage, without a male heir, the kingdom would pass to the closer and older male sibling. In this case, after the dead of Leopold… who? where was the civil war that a king’s death, with just a tirant wife with no male legit children and a daughter, lead to in that times?
The fact that nobility just accepted that Regina was the Queen and Snow would be queen after her makes me think (among other things) in a female lineage.
Not only that, also the urgency Leopold had to find a new queen “for his child shake”, not “to get a legit male heir” -in the sense George worried about being heirless-. And also, despite royals marrying royals, there is something odd in how that kingdom was. Eva ruled. And after that, Regina. And then, “Snow was the one who adressed people, Charming was the sword”.
It is sort of a female lineage kingdom. Not something frequent in Medieval times, but quite recurrent in legends and fantasy. It even reinforce the contrast with George’s kingdom: Charming, who came from George’s kingdom, preferred a male firstborn than a female (in the cell of Rumpelstiltskin, in the pilot, he quickly answers that “it is a boy” to the wizard’s question “Which is the name of the girl?”) , something Snow didn’t care about; she was even proud of her firstborn being a woman.@Andreth Stark wrote:
Actually… i don’t. Well, yes, i a manner of speaking, but let me explain my point; First of all, tiaras, crowns, and other royalty symbols, were not a personal belonging, but the symbol of the status. I mean, it was the heir who got them. A queen in those times was a “queen consort”, that is to say, if there is a tiara for the queen, it goes to the queen who goes after her in that kingdom. If the king sent his daughter to marry other prince, then she would inherit the tiara, crown, etc… of this new kingdom she is going to be queen of, since those are symbols, not belongings. For instance, when Isabella I the Catholic sent her daughter to England to marry Henry VIII, Catherine of Aragon didn’t bring with her her mother’s royal jewels, since she was not the heir of them; she had to wear her new land’s royal jewelry.
A princess who is not in line for the throne still gets to have a tiara growing up. Assuming that princess marries a crown prince of another kingdom, you’re right in saying that she becomes a queen consort of her husband’s realm and so inherits a crown from his family. However, that doesn’t mean she necessarily has to give up her tiara from her own childhood. I don’t know much about Catherine of Aragon, but I did read briefly that her mother’s kingdom suffered financially, which could be why she didn’t keep any family jewels. But there’s no “rule” that a princess who marries a crown prince cannot keep her own jewels she had prior to marriage; normally, she simply adds to her own collection of jewels when she is crowned a queen consort. She can then pass on her childhood tiara to her own daughter if she wishes.
In reality though, a royal can have many crowns over the span of her lifetime. For example, Queen Elizabeth II of England, though a queen regnant, has many different crowns. Before she was queen regnant, she was simply a princess who had a tiara. (So did her younger sister, Princess Margaret, though Margaret never became a queen). Elizabeth could then bequeath her childhood tiara to anyone of her own choosing like one of her daughters or granddaughters, even though it is her son, Charles, who is next in line to inherit the throne and her queen regnant crown.
Secondly, in a medieval settlement with traditional male lineage, without a male heir, the kingdom would pass to the closer and older male sibling. In this case, after the dead of Leopold… who? where was the civil war that a king’s death, with just a tirant wife with no male legit children and a daughter, lead to in that times?
Even in medieval times, a king without a son could still pass on his throne to his daughter. For example, King Henry VIII had only one son, Edward VI, who was sickly and died young at age 16, so the crown passed onto Mary, who also died, and so his youngest daughter and only surviving heir, Elizabeth I became queen regnant of England and Ireland from 1558 until her death.
The fact that nobility just accepted that Regina was the Queen and Snow would be queen after her makes me think (among other things) in a female lineage.
The reason Snow White was accepted as queen regnant is because she was the only heir to King Leopold’s throne as she was his only child. If Snow White had a brother, however, he would have become king and Snow would have remained just a princess. The only reason Regina, a queen consort, was accepted as ruler after her husband’s death was because she framed Snow White for the murder of the king, which would be tantamount to treason and enough to strip Snow of her right to rule as queen regnant. However, Snow White evnetually proved her innocence and so now is the rightful queen regnant of her kingdom.
Not only that, also the urgency Leopold had to find a new queen “for his child shake”, not “to get a legit male heir” -in the sense George worried about being heirless-. And also, despite royals marrying royals, there is something odd in how that kingdom was. Eva ruled. And after that, Regina.
You’re right in saying that the reason King Leopold wanted to get married again wasn’t for his sake or to father a son. It was so that Snow White could have a mother. King Leopold was content not to have a male heir because he loved Snow and thought she would become a wonderful, just queen regnant after his death. Regina only became a ruler after she had Leopold murdered and framed Snow White for it. If you recall in 1×11, Fruit of the Poisonous Tree, Regina was often sidelined as a figure-head, because Leopold was grooming his daughter, Snow, to become ruler as she was his only heir.
Regarding Eva’s “rule” of the kingdom, while we haven’t yet seen Leopold and Eva interact, we know they had true love. He probably trusted his wife to keep things in order while he was away, even though he was still the boss. Eva was putting on a party for Snow’s birthday, but that doesn’t mean she made decisions concerning all matters of state. At the time of Eva’s death, Leopold was absent from her bedside because he was away on business. (In truth, the actor who played Leopold was just busy).
And then, “Snow was the one who addressed people, Charming was the sword”.
The reason Snow White addressed the people after her marriage, and not Prince Charming, is because Snow White was the rightful queen regnant and her husband, David, was only a prince consort by marriage, which is not a full king. (For whatever reason, a man married to a queen regnant doesn’t get the title king consort. It’s odd, but that is why Queen Elizabeth’s husband is called Prince Philip rather than King Philip). Prior to his marriage to Snow, David was just a peasant shepherd, and not even the true heir of George’s kingdom, since he wasn’t adopted, it was James, who died. The only reason he is even a real prince is by marriage, rather than birth.
It is sort of a female lineage kingdom. Not something frequent in Medieval times, but quite recurrent in legends and fantasy. It even reinforce the contrast with George’s kingdom: Charming, who came from George’s kingdom, preferred a male firstborn than a female (in the cell of Rumpelstiltskin, in the pilot, he quickly answers that “it is a boy” to the wizard’s question “Which is the name of the girl?”) , something Snow didn’t care about; she was even proud of her firstborn being a woman.
Again, I don’t believe the EF has female lineage kingdoms. I think the only reason Snow White became queen regnant is because there were no male heirs to contend with. I think the EF was much closer to medieval reality in our world, because several times it’s been mentioned that women didn’t have many opportunities in the EF. For instance, Belle, the daughter of a lesser noble, said she wanted adventure, but there weren’t many options for women there. Mulan said that men thought she had no business being a solider. Also, the reason Cora wanted Regina to marry Leopold in the first place was so she’d have power and that power was only secured by marriage, unless like Snow White, you were the only female heir to your father’s kingdom. Or like Cora, you could learn magic as the apprentice of the dark one, though I think she may have slept with him, too.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
The topic ‘Young Eva’ is closed to new replies.