‘You’re not my Prince!’ Who is then?

[RumplesGirl]

1) If it’s Jack Skellington of Halloween Town I’m going to be the world’s happiest fan. One of my all time favorite movies and my love of the Pumpkin King is forever.

2) Dracula being his Prince is a clever idea, but I really don’t want to see Dracula because I feel that’s jumping the shark a bit. I really think that line is supposed to highlight that Dr. Whale/Frankie considers himself to be above it all, that he answers to no man. What’s that line from the move, GoldenKey? “Now I know what it feels like to be God?” He has defied himself. He sees himself as a god. And as such, he answers to no one.

[TheGoldenKey]

I see your point RumplesGirl, and yes, he has defied himself, but we also know how that turns out. He fails. What’s important as well, is that we see him concede to Magic twice in that episode. Once by using a magical heart and again by accepting a magical cure from Mr. Gold for his severed arm. So he really does answer to Magic. He just doesn’t know it yet. So while he can see himself as God, see himself as Victor in all conflicts, the sad OUAT reality is that he is neither of those things.

Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.

[thetrickster]

@TheGoldenKey wrote:

Gypsy is right Trickster, Victor/Whale’s price is having to concede to magic. Man of science hates to concede to man of faith.

That was a price he paid to the wizard to get his arm back. I was thinking about the consecuences of having an arm attached by means of magic.
Actually it will be a bit disapointing if nothing happens after that. I mean, if that sort of magic comes without more consecuences than a pride damage, then magic doesn’t come with a price… Rumplestiltskin does. I also remember him telling Regina that the magic in the book was not good for health… and re attach a dead arm is not bad?
As I said before, I’m most than probably wrong. But leave Whale with his arm again without problems of any kind is a bit simple. At least in my opinion. but Again I’m most than probably wrong.

[crest1994]

@TheTrickster wrote:

@TheGoldenKey wrote:

Gypsy is right Trickster, Victor/Whale’s price is having to concede to magic. Man of science hates to concede to man of faith.

That was a price he paid to the wizard to get his arm back. I was thinking about the consecuences of having an arm attached by means of magic.
Actually it will be a bit disapointing if nothing happens after that. I mean, if that sort of magic comes without more consecuences than a pride damage, then magic doesn’t come with a price… Rumplestiltskin does. I also remember him telling Regina that the magic in the book was not good for health… and re attach a dead arm is not bad?
As I said before, I’m most than probably wrong. But leave Whale with his arm again without problems of any kind is a bit simple. At least in my opinion. but Again I’m most than probably wrong.

We’ve seen lots of instances of magic used without a price. Every time a heart is ripped out, everytime vines wrap someone up, everytime someone is knocked off their feet by someone waving their hand, where is the price that is paid?

It’s only the really big spells that come at a price. Even then a lot of them don’t have any real price other than Rumple asking for something in return for his own means, if he wanted to he could do it for free, as he has done occasionally from time to time.

[RumplesGirl]

I think we could argue that every time a heart is ripped out, the one who did the removal loses a bit more of their “humanity” or is taken further into darkness. Think how evil Cora is. She took a lot of hearts, as did Regina, which is why she was such a fantastic Evil Queen.

And I’m starting to wonder if the whole “all magic comes with a price” is only BIG magic. Not the spells here and there, or else no one would do magic. But those spells that have consequences almost written into them, they come with a price. Even if it’s internal, like losing yourself to darkness.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[crest1994]

I agree it seems only big spells have a price.

Also just because you don’t recognise someone as your Prince, doesn’t mean you have a Prince of your own. Personally, I’m British so if I told the Queen of Denmark you’re not my Queen, you could assume oh he was talking about the Queen of England being his Queen.

But to the Americans on this site, if Prince Charles went over to the US, and started telling people in the street what to do, if one of them turned around and said remember you’re not our prince, that wouldn’t mean that they had their own Prince, it just means what it says on the tin, he’s not their/your prince.

[thetrickster]

Agree with you, RumplesGirl. ^^ “those spells that have consequences almost written into them”, love this sentence :ugeek:

But when someone looses his arm, that arm is dead. Re attach it should be, as far as i understand it, one of the big spells, since you make a dead limb useful again.
Internal consequences would be also ok with me. If Whale has nightmares afterwards, or becomes a big fan of magic against his own nature, with all the internal conflicts it comes with, or whatever, it would be at least something else than “It was done by a magician”.
Not as funny as having a crazy Whale changing his personality, but fair enough. 😈
Sadly, it seems improbable.

And, regarding Crest1994 comment… personally, if I tell someone “you are not my prince” it has the implication of having my own prince. Mainly because it is a negative existential sentence. That means, by saying… “you are not my brother” to a person who claims being my brother, the implication that the hearer percieves is that I have a brother but he is not the person i’m talking with. Because if i had no brother, i would probably answer something like “What brother?” “I have no brother”…etc.
I’m not English native speaker, so I’m just following the rule. 😳 But even if i’m wrong in my guess, at least it seems quite ambiguous.

[crest1994]

@TheTrickster wrote:

Agree with you, RumplesGirl. ^^ “those spells that have consequences almost written into them”, love this sentence :ugeek:

But when someone looses his arm, that arm is dead. Re attach it should be, as far as i understand it, one of the big spells, since you make a dead limb useful again.
Internal consequences would be also ok with me. If Whale has nightmares afterwards, or becomes a big fan of magic against his own nature, with all the internal conflicts it comes with, or whatever, it would be at least something else than “It was done by a magician”.
Not as funny as having a crazy Whale changing his personality, but fair enough. 😈
Sadly, it seems improbable.

And, regarding Crest1994 comment… personally, if I tell someone “you are not my prince” it has the implication of having my own prince. Mainly because it is a negative existential sentence. That means, by saying… “you are not my brother” to a person who claims being my brother, the implication that the hearer percieves is that I have a brother but he is not the person i’m talking with. Because if i had no brother, i would probably answer something like “What brother?” “I have no brother”…etc.
I’m not English native speaker, so I’m just following the rule. 😳 But even if i’m wrong in my guess, at least it seems quite ambiguous.

I would never have guessed you weren’t native. I think it may have been done on purpose by the writers as its something ambiguous like you said. It makes a point of debate, is there or isn’t there? Personally, I’m unemployed but I still say to people who tell me what to do, you’re not my boss or something similar, when actually I don’t have any boss. Equally others perceive it as meaning something more, and they could well be right. It’s part of the brilliance of OUAT that nearly every sentence can be analysed and we can draw different conclusions as to what was truly meant.

[gypsy]

Trickster- to use your example- telling someone “You’re not my brother” doesn’t necessarily allude to the fact that the person saying it does, in fact, have a brother. “Brother” doesn’t always mean sibling. My family has belonged to a MC Club for over 25 yrs and there are over 90 members. Of course they are not all blood related, yet, they refer to each other as ‘Brother’.

If a rival club member approached one of them and addressed them as ‘Brother’, the natural response would be, “You’re not my brother.”

[fairy dust]

@TheGoldenKey wrote:

@TheTrickster wrote:

It could be nice if it is Dracula. I would really like to watch a sort of “victorian-gothic” world in which all the characters of the horror movies- gothic books live. And those “black and white” scenes make me remember the old films by Hammer Productions XDD

But… I don’t know, Dracula was not a prince. He was not even nobleman. He was a voivoda, which is a military range –sort of general- who ruled a province in old Valaquia (where Transilvania is, in Rumania, but in the Medieval Ages, under the Ottoman Empire.That is why Vlad Tepes became a legend: he fought the Turkish with such a blood thirst that people began to think that he even drank blood of his enemies) I know that he is also a gothic character, and that not only Fairy Tales have place in the show but… historical characters? Maybe too much? Or maybe not…

You know, Frankenstein was written in the 19th century and so was Dracula… there are lots of legends about Queen Victoria and her sons… it is said that she was into “strange” business, related with magic and experimental science since her husband died. It is also said that she was related in some way with Jack the Reaper –and one of the first suspects was an American actor who played the role of Jekyll-Hide in the theatres of London at the time of the murderers (Richard Mansfield)-

And the Dr. Whale/Frankenstein from OUaT could also be a Mr. Hide-Jack the Reaper. Both Hide and Jack were womanizers –as Dr. Whale is but not Victor Frankenstein- and finally no one knows why, they started to kill women. Dr. Jekyll changed because a potion he drank… well, Dr. Whale had his arm stuck again because of the magic. And all magic comes with a price, so… what about a doctor loyal to a certain gothic Prince Albert (¿? put here the name of other candidates… all of them from England in the Victorian Age, when the original gothic stories took place) from his world who after make use of magic has to paid the price of it by becoming a murderer without knowing it? Being the victims women who rejected –or not- him?

Anyway I hope I’m wrong. I would like to see Dracula as the king-prince of that land… he could make “the evil queen” look like Teresa de Calcuta. 😈

Gypsy is right Trickster, Victor/Whale’s price is having to concede to magic. Man of science hates to concede to man of faith.

Your theory is interesting but very similar to two put out by another posted named fairy dust. Here are the links as I think you’d enjoy reading them. You both seem to have much in common in how you think/theorize. You could almost be twins 😀

https://oncepodcast.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1862&p=23266#p23266

https://oncepodcast.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1768&p=22198#p22198

I can assure you GoldenKey…the Trickster and I are not the same person.. 😀 I know you must be joking and not making an accusation. I can assure you, my theories are posted under my own Fairy Dust name. However…if it turns out that Trickster is correct on her theories…well then of course…I’ll be happy to be her twin. 😀 😆 😀 😆

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