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I just rewatched the bar scene in 2X4. There was nothing in there to suggest that she left Bae at home alone. She could well have left him with Rumple. All we see is Rumple bringing Bae with him and asking him to wait outside.
This one or actually right before this scene which is when Rumple comes home to find Bae all alone sitting by the fire.
[adrotate group="5"]Another great post by Screwball about the decreased quality of the show over the seasons.
Yes I thought that was incredibly insightful.
Not necessarily, and I’m not talking about Rumple and Milah anymore. What about children conceived via rape?
That would be very unfortunate and does happen, I will say that when the victim of rape decides to keep the child she is CHOOSING to become a parent. That child is in NO WAY at fault for how he/she is conceived and that parent still has the RESPONSIBILITY to be the best parent they can be.
My point is that parenthood is complicated. Parents don’t always conceive children in a fully informed and autonomous manner, and when raising children, they make all sorts of mistakes. They’re human.
No Doubt, but if you do CHOOSE to become a parent you need to go into knowing that the child is your responsibility. You are going to make mistakes, and parents are human but to say that you are should not be judged by how you parent is ridiculous. You are and you should understand that and want to be seen as a good parent. And that judgement is not women’s alone believe me men are judged just as much as woman are now days. No matter what the circumstances are every parent CHOSE to be a parent and they should take that choice seriously. Because what happens when they don’t is the CHILD suffers which is not okay. Now I say this in a Western Society way knowing that not all countries have it as lucky as we do, but I am not an expert or knowledgeable enough about their resources or cultures to make any kind of blanket statement.
You on the other hand, seem to believe that any parent who hurts their child automatically becomes a worthless human being.
I in no way shape or form stated any of these thoughts. I simply said that your statement about women’s worth being about how they are parents is both archaic and misogynistic is wrong and then I gave you my reasons why. It is never okay to hurt a child either emotionally or physically. Do I understand how this happens? Yes. Do I demonize these parents forever? Depends on what they did, the circumstances they were in, and what they did to try and fix it. This is what I will say, is when this happens to a child it leaves scares (always emotionally and sometimes physically) and that is not okay. A child does not get to choose their parents so it falls on the parents to be the best parent they can be.
Now to take this back to Milah. Do I think she is EVIL, no I think she is a bad mom. I re watched that scene also and we must see it in completely different contexts because what I saw was Bae sitting alone in the house and Rumple walking in with a basket of cloth like he just got home from work (market) and stating “Where is Mum, well she probably just lost track of time, grab your cloak, We’ll find her” I don’t know how else you can interpret this scene other than Rumple expected to come home and find Bae with Milah and didn’t. We also see from this scene that Rumple seems to know exactly where Milah is. So did she leave her young child to go drinking in a bar, Yes she did. Is this the first time it has happened? Probably not. That is incredibly neglectful and not a responsible choice. Do I think this makes her Evil, NO. Do I understand, Maybe. But pair that up with her then abandoning him (In other words CHOOSING not to be a parent anymore which most certainly left scars on both Rumple and Bae) and then never once asking about him and she is a pretty pathetic mom and I stand by what I said before Rumple and Bae were probably better off without her.
A woman who is an outcast in a small, rural community. A woman who is severely socioeconomically disadvantaged. A woman with a small child and a disabled husband. A woman struggling with all three of the above. Your mockery indicates that you simply do not perceive the difficulties experienced by women in these situations. Domestic abuse is not the only thing that can can make one’s life miserable.
Yes and just because your life is miserable does not give you an excuse to ABANDON your responsibilities and VERBALLY ABUSE your husband in front of a room full of people. This is not OKAY. Is Milah’s life hard? Yes. Do I understand that? Yes. But so is a lot of people’s lives and they don’t just up and ABANDON what should be their NUMBER 1 PRIORITY, THEIR CHILD.
But until you actually understand how a life like this can wear someone down, both physically and emotionally, our discussion needs to be put on hold. Because this is one of the most crucial points in any discussion regarding Milah.
If it was hard on Milah it was also hard on Rumple and Bae, which she abandoned and abused. Now I am not saying that the circumstances she was in are her fault. Life happens and you have play with the hand your dealt with whether you like it or not. I am sure she is not happy that Rumple made the choice that he did, but he did and she can’t change that now. She needs to deal with the situation she is in and not make it any worse by letting the whole town know Hey Yeah we are not a united front, please continue to abuse the provider of my family, because I hate him just as much as you do. That is where we are disagreeing. You want me to feel sorry for Milah because she is miserable and I would have if her actions did not affect anyone else. Unfortunately they did, her CHOICES had CONSEQUENCES on both Rumple and Bae. She made those choices knowing they would have negative consequences for her son and CHOSE to do them anyway. Now I will also address that you think that Milah is depressed and maybe self medicating with alcohol or contemplating suicide. Depression is a mental illness that can’t be treated by throwing away your present life for a new one. If she had depression we should also seen signs of it with Hook and in the Underworld. What she had was an unhappy life that was making her miserable, because of this she threw away that life for one she thought was better for her. Now this doesn’t make her a “evil” person but it does make her a BAD mom because in the process of her misery she left Bae home alone to go drinking, she verbally abused her husband in front of a room full of people, and she abandoned both her husband and son so she could make herself a better life giving little to no thought about the emotional damage she was inflicting on both of them.
I agree we are probably not going to agree on this subject so maybe we should both just leave it here although you have given me things to think about and I hope I have done the same.
actually find it depressing how quickly people mete out judgement for Milah. Particularly because there are many, many women in the real world living under similar circumstances. I truly hope that people are more compassionate and understanding of the plights of these real women than they are to poor Milah.
Similar circumstance to what exactly? A woman who is neglectful of her child so she can go out drinking? A woman who hates her husband so much she verbally abuses and laughs at him in front of strangers? Do you mean her poverty? Do you mean the fact that she is married to someone with a physical disability? Please help me understand how poor little Milah is the victim here. Rumple is not abusive, he is not neglectful. He is poor but he does work and is trying to do his best to provide a steady and healthy environment for his child. I don’t know what I am supposed to be compassionate and understanding about. If she was being abused, yes I would have compassion and understand, if Rumple refused to work and laid home all day and refused to help out, yes I would be understanding. You want me to be understanding to a woman who is unhappy in her marriage? Well obviously she was and changed her fate which means she was neither powerless nor a victim of bad predark one Rumple?
Women especially seem to have their worth measured through their parenthood. It’s archaic and slightly misogynistic.
Wow! This is because if you CHOOSE to become a parent whether you are male or female you have a RESPONSIBILITY to that child to be the best parent you can be. That child does not get any choice in you as a parent they are put in that situation without any consult to them. I don’t think this is archaic or misogynistic. I also think male worth is measured (especially now days) by their parenthood abilities and guess what I have no problem with that. If you don’t want your worth measured by parenthood then you probably should not be a parent.
disagree with a lot of this. Milah seemed to appreciate Rumple just fine before he went off to war. When he returned, they become social pariahs. In their society, with no government assistance or the like, social support would have been everything. It probably meant that Milah had to do all of the backbreaking work herself – even more so, since Rumple was compromised
Actually I believe this Proves my point, Milah cared about Rumple when he could provide for her but became abusive and neglectful when he no longer could Provide for her.
find it interesting that Milah, a poor, powerless woman whose mistakes are very human, gets almost universal hate from the OUAT fandom – the same fandom who can find plenty of sympathy in their hearts for mass murdering villains! Yes, she made mistakes which hurt her family. Yes, she needs to be held accountable for that. But did she deserve to be murdered in cold blood and then thrown into the River of Souls? I don’t think so!
I don’t think she should have died either. I also don’t think she was a poor powerless woman who should be given sympathy. I see Milah as she was presented by the show. She was a mother who left her young child at home alone so she could go out drinking in a bar and flirt with men (which by the way if you are poor may not be the best way to spend your money) and a wife who had no problem verbally abusing her husband in the same bar filled with people. This does not show her in a good light, no matter what perspective you look at it from.
know this sounds trivial, but for someone who never gets respect, it means everything. Respect is a fundamental human need. It’s why people join gangs and cults.
Completely Agree and My Main Problem with Milah is the LACK of RESPECT she shows both Rumple and Bae her husband and child. Could be why Rumple ended up taking the dark one powers.
People were about to die. Maybe she felt that asking about Bae was secondary to the fact that blood was about to be shed. Also, it’s just one instance. If we got repeated instances of Milah ignoring Bae, then yes, I’d say there was enough evidence that she didn’t care. But I personally think that it’s too far a leap to make based on this one situation, where there were mitigating circumstances. In ‘Devil’s Due’, Milah expresses regret about Bae and does ask about him.
People were not about to die on the boat and yet she fails again to ask about Bae. And we do have repeated instances of Milah ignoring Bae becasue I do believe Milah was the one who left a very young Bae alone at home so she could go drinking and then again she left Bae to run off with a pirate which would also being ignoring Bae and his feelings.
Hook and Milah actually trying to seek Bae but failing.
I doubt she ever looked for him. I mean let’s look at the Crocodile Episode which took place maybe a year or two after Rumple became the dark one at most a few years. At this time Bae would have been maybe 16-17 years old. Does Milah ask how Bae is doing, does she say hey Rumple what happened to you and where is our son? No! She was first worried about Hook, then makes a deal with Rumple for the bean. She does not even ask him what the bean is for, she simply says I don’t know why the dark one wants the bean but I know he does. Maybe just maybe if she had asked about her son I could have sympathy for her but she doesn’t, why becasue she could have cared less about Bae. All she cared about is Hook (which wow there is a similarity to Emma in Season 6)
As for whether or not she loved Rump? Idk.
Yeah, nope she had no REAL feelings for Rumple. Rumple at heart is sweet, kind, and tender which I think Milah actually despises. I think she went for Hook becasue he was the exact opposite of who Rumple was. You can’t really love someone if you don’t love who they are at heart. She might have loved what he provided for her at the time, but when that ended so did her feelings.
As for your thought process of similarities between Emma and Milah I think they are both strong, independent, fierce woman at best and can be incredibly selfish and self centered at worse. I think it is interesting that they both became so focused on Hook that they were willing to give up the ones they loved for him Milah (Bae) Emma (chose saving Hook from possible danger rather than waking her parents up from a permanent coma). They both value bravery in the “I will kick your butt” sense. I say this because I think Belle is one of the bravest characters on the show just in a much quieter way. I think Emma is a way more sympathetic character and is obviously better for Hook morally. Hook with Emma is a better person morally, with Milah he was a vicious, bully, murdering pirate. So I can see why Hook was attracted to both of them.
My question is what Rumple saw in Milah and for the matter Cora also as I can see quite a few similarities between those two women, and why did he end up with their complete opposites in everything but looks with Belle.
It was less about seeing something initially in Rumple that changed (like a latent character flaw) and more about Milah’s own perspective on Rumple’s actions on the battlefield (or lack thereof).
I think Milah probably saw Rumple as a steadfast and fairly prosperous (for a peasant) provider.
It wasn’t that Rumple was a really different person when they got married and started planning a life. He was always kind and sweet–we see this even after the Rumple/Milah falling out that there’s a tenderness to him; and we see it in bursts with characters like Bae and Belle after Rumple became the Dark One–but there was also a hopefulness to Rumple.
While I agree I don’t think these were qualities that Milah was ever interested in with Rumple. She did not care about his character. Just with the few scenes we have seen between Milah and Rumple she seemed to hate his sweetness, kindness, and tenderness. She was not looking for him to be a good father (as we saw in 5×14) or a “good ” person as we have seen in most of the flashbacks and especially in 5×14. What she valued, IMO is that he could provide her with a decent life. When he came back from the war as a “coward” he could no longer provide that and therefore she scorned him completely and to a certain effect their child also.
I will be the first one to say that Milah is probably one character that I have never felt any sympathy for. She was selfish, self centered, and both a horrible wife and mother. I don’t believe she ever loved Rumple for who he is. She may have loved him for what he could provide her but when he could no longer provide her with that she scorned him, abused him, and neglected their child. She eventually took off with someone who she felt could provide her with a better life and protection. All in all I think her and Hook deserved each other, and Rumple and Bae were better off without her.
More Henry and Rumple bonding in particular is something that many of us had been asking to see more of.
This
There are also more classic literature they could pull from, like they did for the Land of Untold Stories subplot.
And This
Exploring dropped storylines for several recurring characters.
Or exploring some characters in more depth like Archie, Grumpy, Red, Granny, Nova, Maleficent, Lily, etc.
I am most excited for new characters, new stories, and new people to care about. I would have loved if they had not brought back any of the old character regulars, but I am excited to see how this all works out.
So you’re saying is…you don’t want the three characters reunited with their families nor do you want to see them be reunited. Dude that’s just cold. Sure they help out Henry with the curse and then what? I would love to see them be reunited with everyone in SB. How could you hate having Hook, Regina, and Rumple work so hard to get their happy endings, get forcefully removed from them, and then not want to see them get back to them?
I am saying that at this point in time we have no real idea of what is going to happen next season. We don’t know if these are even OUR characters from Storybrooke. I am saying that I hope they aren’t. I hope they leave the ending of season 6 ALONE. I would have preferred them not bringing any characters back unless they were flashbacks. I am looking at it as that story is done, let us start a new one with new characters and new people to care about. So yes I would HATE them taking all the happily ever afters from season 6 and ripping them apart just so they could reunited them in season 7. I think that is lazy and boring
f it gets another season then yeah Hook, Regina, and Rumple will be out but I highly doubt that will happen. This show is gonna bomb dude and it’s time you embraced that either it ends this season or OUAT’s new legacy will be “stop after S6”. Which is just tragic really.
That is your opinion, and you may be right or you might be wrong. I guess we will find out next season. I really can’t comment on something that has not happened yet.
