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People crack jokes at inappropriate times. It is a pretty awkward situation for all involved.
Yeah if this was real life, but this is a show where the writers are trying to convey a message to us. I took the message as Emma does not care about Rumple and Belle’s child and neither does Snow.
To be fair to Snow, we don’t know what she does and doesn’t know about the situation. She wasn’t there for the conversation with Gideon, and she certainly seems to exhibit a change of tone (as does Emma) when Rumple and Belle explain Gideon’s situation. If Snow had been equipped with all of the details then maybe we could have had a scene outside the shop where she takes Emma to one side and reminds her to be sensitive to Belle and Rumple’s recent loss.
Nope not buying that one. I know we didn’t see the conversation but it has to be implied that Emma would tell Snow about her conversation with Gideon.
[adrotate group="5"]I don’t think they were “joking”. Do I think Emma was going out right then and there to kill Gideon, no but she was sure making a threat which was uncool after what she had just learned. Snow is not getting as much attention because I think we all have seen this attitude in Snow before. Snow has always been a little self righteous about everything that does not concern her family or friends. I guess that is my main problem, our heroes now are very self righteous and self centered. Emma did not use to be this way but she sure has been for some time now. I also feel like the heroes get a pass for bad actions because they are heroes where our villains are held for every action that they take.
Yeah I agree, that’s the Emma we all came to know and love in the first 3 seasons. Many of us see her “character growth” since then to be negative as she seems to place Hook above all else. Here’s how I see it: Gideon has tried to kill her, taken Hook away, and is now threatening Emma – it’s in character for her to punch him then. But after Gideon implies he was abused and explains how so many, including children, are depending on him, Old Emma would have had a moment of realization that this guy needs her help. Then we cut to Black Fairy abusing a child. I realize Emma isn’t completely aware of the extent of Black Fairy’s evil, but from a writing standpoint, why would you show your hero punching someone in the face, and then immediately show the Black’s fairy’s abusiveness toward that same someone?! Emma punches Gideon, then abuse scene, then Emma with Snow telling his parents she’s happy to fulfill his “death wish.” And then, by the end of the episode we find out Gideon isn’t at fault for any of his actions! If the writers were trying to make Emma look bad, they succeeded.
Agree with all of this
I think the whole problem is that we all know that there are only a few episodes left of the series so I for one don’t want to see that time wasted on unnecessary items like Hook and Black Beard in Neverland if it does not connect directly back to Storybrooke right now. They are wasting time that could be used to further develop characters and bring resolutions to story lines. I did not mind Hook and Blackbeard this episode but I did find it useless and a waste of time when I know that there is not much time left. So what I am basically saying is that these scenes would have been fine and quite enjoyable if they came in like season 2 when we knew there was plenty of time to tell the rest of the stories, but right now they need to concentrate on what matters not some jaunt for Hook and Blackbeard or even last week’s episode which was a total waste of time.
Huh? When did Emma use Belle?
Well why do you think she was able to use Rumple? She was able to blackmail him by saying that she would run immediately to Belle and tell her that he was the dark one again. This was information that Belle had every right to know and would have been great if Emma was “savior” enough to let her know, but instead she decided to manipulate Rumple to go to the underworld and leave Belle in the dark in fact USING Belle.
Ok but her “selfish needs” was her bf’s life. Not a sandwich or an item or something like that.
He was already dead, he killed himself so that he could take back almost killing the entire town including Emma’s son and parents. She was not going to the underworld to save anyone other than what she wanted in her selfish mind.SHE did not want to live without Hook so SHE did what SHE had to do which is put her family, Regina (although at least they were volunteers), Rumple, and eventually Belle in danger. So do I think that manipulation is worse than Gideon’s wanting to SAVE 100’s of innocent children from the black fairy? Yes I do.
I did not see that as a death threat
How is that not a death threat? She was not referring to the black fairy she was referring to herself killing him and snow helping?
It’s still hypocritical of her, but no one felt bad for Gold. He did a bad thing and Emma was using that against him.
Your right, I felt bad for Belle who was being used by Emma
Also, she literally needed Rumple to open the portal to the UW to save her bf! Gideon just wanted to leverage Emma so that he could kill her (or help stop a villain). I just don’t view the manipulations the same.
Your right I view the manipulation as much worse on Emma’s part. Emma was manipulating gold for her own selfish needs, Gideon was manipulating Emma to save 100’s of children and defeat an evil person
Perhaps I am remembering this wrong then. I did not think Emma threatened to kill Gideon the first time she went to Gold’s shop.
“Your son has a death wish and I am all to happy to oblige” Snow then states “and I would be happy to help, we have been looking for some mother/daughter bonding time” This is a DEATH threat right after Gideon explained why he needed Emma’s help. Emma goes on to state that Gideon is using Hook as a bargaining chip. This is the scene I am upset with and probably everyone else who is complaining about Emma. This scene was horrible and Emma and Snow were selfish, hypocritical jerks. Emma then finds Gideon and tells him he has the look of hope and that she is willing to help him after he gives her Hook back. (OK I will give her this one although really let’s let the innocent children suffer so that you can get your pirate back sooner?) then they go to the house and Gideon leaves her for dead. She then threatens his life again, which is understandable and Rumple threatens Emma which is also understandable.
Again though, she had this conversation with Gold earlier in the episode when Gold told her about the Black Fairy and all the darkness the surrounds her and how she’s his mother etc. She did this before agreeing to trust Gideon and take down the Black Fairy together. Do you forget that this already happened?
Nope you are missing the point, the point is not what happened at the ending scene it is what happened in the scene in the shop where Emma and Snow threatened to kill Gideon and Emma was upset that Gideon was using Hook as a bargaining chip. This is the scene we are all upset about. The ending scene makes sense, this scene does not.
Then she was hypocritical. Who hasn’t been on this show? I don’t see why that makes her a terrible person. If she was going in to sit down and have tea and crumpets with Belle and Rumple to discuss the issue then people would be questioning if she was Jafar in disguise. This is Emma’s character. Impulsive, emotional, driven, flawed…. This is who she has been for the whole series.
Really, because I remember an Emma who stood up for the truth and backed others even when it was detrimental to herself. I remember an Emma who would never have blackmailed others and would have tried to help Gideon after his explanation instead of threatening to kill him. This was the Emma of season 1-3. The fact is the show has Emma painted as not only the hero but the savior. As the savior and hero I do expect more out of her. She is allowed to be upset and “bad ***” but she is not allowed to hurt innocent people (Belle) for her own gain. She is not allowed to threaten the life of a guy who just explained that he needs her help to defeat a really evil person who is abusing kids.
Matt wrote: None of the characters in that scene were painted in a bad light IMO. I could get on board with Belle seeing the best in her son, in Rumple wanting to protect him, in Emma wanting to protect herself and in Snow wanting to protect her daughter. They are four adults. They are more than just Heroes and Villains, and all the connotations that come with those labels.
I actually don’t have a problem with the ending scene between Emma and Rumple, I think Emma has every right at that moment to be upset and I think Rumple has every right to tell Emma not to mess with his son, I have a problem with the scene in the shop where Emma and Snow where selfish, hypocritical jerks.
What is “hero” like? Let’s all sit down and have a cup of tea and discuss your son who keeps attempting to stick a sword into me? I understand that it might not seem like the most “light” thing to do, but seriously, this isn’t a normal situation to be in. Just because Emma is a hero does not mean that she should just stand there and wait for Gideon to kill her.
How about coming into the shop and saying “Hey Gold and Belle why is your son trying to kill me? Who is the black fairy, and how can we help the 100’s of abused kids?” That would be a good conversation starter instead of hey I am going to kill your son and my mom is going to help. I am not saying that Emma should wait for Gideon to kill her my problem is that right after she punched Gideon he told her what was going on and that he needed her help she then went to Gold and threatened his life. This is NOT an appropriate way to handle the situation right after Gideon told her what was going on.
And she may sound hypocritical
She does not sound hypocritical she WAS hypocritical.
The world is not black and white.
Exactly what Rumple said when he told Belle not to listen to Emma and Snow, your right the world is not black and white not everything is what it seems and just becasue Emma assumes the Gideon is evil does not make him so.
