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@Josephine wrote:

I know I’m going to get hate for this, but I still have no feelings for Hook. No sympathy, no pity, nothing. I just feel nothing for him. I can see that he wanted Gold to kill him to be reunited with Milah, and yeah, he threw the library fight to distract Gold, but just like Regina and Daniel, another controversial thing, I really didn’t feel anything. At least bringing Daniel back from the dead did get me to see that she did love him and I felt a little stirring for feeling that Stable Boy didn’t produce, but after this episode and “The Crocodile” I fear I’ll just never have any feelings for Hook. Weird thing is I don’t even have anger toward him, even though I’m a huge Rumbelle fan.

I have sympathy in that he lost Milah the way he did even though I don’t think that Hook/Milah quite worked instantly like Snow/Charming, Rumple/Belle, and Emma/Neal did for me. I mean I believe that their each other’s true loves especially Milah’s feelings for Hook, but I just wish they showed more in “The Crocodile” why Hook fell in love with Milah. Now after that episode, I think Hook has shown just how deep his love truly ran for her. I just wish they would have done more in “The Crocodile” to show that because while I understand his need for revenge, it just didn’t compare to how they have wrote Rumple’s and Regina’s quests.

For instance, I cheer for Rumple to at least find Bae, but I can’t cheer for Hook to attain his goal. I know that it’s Rumple’s fault for losing Bae in the first place, and Hook didn’t deserve Rumple killing his true love in front of him no less. However, Hook was a bully from the first time that we met him, and while Rumple has turned into something far worse than Hook, we were shown that he was a good man at one time and that part of him does still exist deeply buried within him, but it’s still in there.

I can’t even love to hate Hook like I did with Regina in the first season even though I think that his quest for revenge makes more sense than her quest for revenge over a little girl because the writing for him before the winter hiatus was very inconsisten inconsistent. I love it when they’re not afraid to go all out with him like they have Cora’s character, but at times, it felt like they didn’t know they wanted to go with Hook’s character. Sometimes it felt like they really wanted a Captain Jack Sparrow character, but they were too scared to actually just write in Jack Sparrow to the show. Other times it felt like they really did want to put him in the same league as the other villains when he stole Aurora’s heart or when he backhanded Belle and was about to gut her open. Both options could have worked, but when they tried to do them together, I think it just came out a mess because I found Hook too villainous to like as a charming rogue yet too wacky and trivial to take seriously as a villain. I’m cautiously optimistic because I think that they’re going the latter route now by just having him be villainous yet having a sympathetic side brought out by talking about Milah, which I think should have been the way they went in the first place, instead of trying to please everyone with his character.

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@Phee wrote:

Claude! We hardly knew ye, but congrats on getting some back story. 😉

Ha, how could I forget Claude. That was another thing that I loved.

@Phee wrote:

One other random Belle observation…whoever in FTL made her Wonderbra, I’d like to put in an order for one plz.

Yes, it’s too bad Rumple hasn’t got to see her in her kickbutt outfit yet.

@Phee wrote:

Has there been any word about Eion’s other show being picked up? Even if so, I’d like to think that they could schedule him to come back for an ep here and there so they can wrap up Pinocchio’s storylines. Hadn’t really expected to see him again yet though, because I figured he wouldn’t be back until Neal is.

Well I’m sure he’ll be back on, but it just seems like this show can really drop the ball. Sometimes they can get it just perfect like the ending of last night’s episode or breaking the curse the first season, but then other times, they just let important things go for several episodes and then just have one of the characters address it verbally to give closure to fans and that just frustrates me to no end. Like last year, we finally find out why Regina didn’t try to kill Emma during the season because they just give Gold one line near the end of the season about how if Emma dies then the Curse breaks. Or how we found out when Gold told Regina that information that she had also pieced together that Emma was the Savior, when it was ambiguous during the first few episodes and not addressed again.

It would have made more sense and have more impact later if we got to see more reminders of Geppetto’s search for Pinocchio instead of way back in episode 3 and whenever they decide to finally reunite Gepetto and Pinocchio, and hints that they’re not just going to drop the whole wardrobe debacle. It would have also been nice to have some callbacks to the Sheriff whose name will not be spoken since he died just recently died by Regina’s hands too at least a pan over to his grave or something.

Guess she was out and about, spying on Regina, instead of hanging around the boat? She’s a proactive one, that Cora. Not one to sit on her arse and wait for stuff to happen. As for Hook’s crew, I wasn’t really expecting them to be there. Smee got sucked into the curse, so I could buy that anyone else in the crew was outside the bubble too. I got the impression that Hook and Cora were the only ones on the boat when it sailed into SB.

I mean I can fanwank it that Cora and Hook were probably so overconfident that no one would ever find Hook’s ship that they didn’t put any protections spells on it, but I wish I didn’t have to do that. I know evil has to make dumb mistakes because of evil’s overconfidence like how good always makes the same mistake of letting an evil character go only for that character to come back and cause more havoc. However, again, I think it would have been better if they waited before Belle rescued Archie so soon after he was kidnapped, so we got to see Cora and Hook spying on the town, and see them become overconfident that they had everyone fooled. Then, Belle could rescue Archie.

@Phee wrote:

Can’t wait to see how Rumbelle progresses (or not) now. Surely they’ll get it together eventually, and he’ll figure out how to get her memories back, but in the meantime it’ll be interesting to see how she reacts to him. I mean, if she’s gotta ask people around her who the strange man is, it’s not like they’re gonna paint a pretty picture for her.

Yes, while it won’t be easy for either party, this actually might be Rumple’s best chance to actually work on bettering himself if he really is sincere in doing so. Old Belle might have been able to forgive Rumple slipping up, but current Belle probably won’t be so forgiving to him.

@Phee wrote:

Robert and Colin both rocked this ep!

Definitely! It’s nice to have them utilize Hook in such a way instead of him just doing his usual shtick.

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@warhorse78 wrote:

Just curious. Has it ever been revealed where Emma and August came through via the magical tree? What state?

I think Maine because they didn’t have to travel that far on his bike to get to the tree in the episode where he tries to prove to her that she’s the Savior.

Here I was thinking Cora might have taken HOOKs heart so that he could go up against Gold.

That would have been a nice twist which could still happen. I know that Hook maybe a little bit tired of being everyone’s punching bag, but I did think he gave up a little too easy when he was asking Rumple to kill him. Although I did like the sentiment that he wanted to die because he’d be reunited with Milah, his true love.

(Secret Confession: If it weren’t for the terrible things that Hook has done to Belle, I wouldn’t mind a triangle between Rumple, Belle without her memories, and Hook. I think that Belle and Hook have chemistry not as much as he and Regina did, but more than he and Emma ever did, and if she’s still “Belle” in that she’s naive/innocent/eternally optimistic or whatever you want to call it even without her memories, she could try to change Hook for the better. However, I couldn’t do that to Belle because of everything that he’s done to her even if she didn’t remember he did those things.

Of course, assuming Neal is Baelfire, if it meant that Neal and Hook could become friendly since Hook would be in a different triangle, I might not be too averse to a Rumple/Belle without her memories/Hook triangle because I really want to see Hook and Neal interact and not as the cliche romantic rivals. I think part of Hook would hate Bae because of who his father is, and he might irrationally blame Bae somewhat for Milah’s death. On the other hand, he couldn’t part with Bae’s shawl because Milah made it, so I think that part of Hook would win out when it came to Bae. While I love to see Hook when he is in villain mode, I also think that it would help give him much needed depth if he in were in scenes with someone else where he didn’t try to “charm” them and he didn’t harm or try to harm the other person, and the other person didn’t end up using him as a punching bag at the end. Not saying that scenes with Nealfire would be like that because he could try to harm Nealfire or vice versa, but they could try to build up some kind of relationship there. Maybe they would both be using each other in that they would both want to inflict pain on Rumple, but at least it would be a nice change of pace from the pattern that Hook has going on now where it’s flirt shamelessly, harm/bully someone else, and end up in serious physical pain.)

As for the episode, some things I really loved, but overall I didn’t love the episode.

I loved that they showed Belle having book smarts and how it picked up from when she saw Grumpy in “Dreamy”. I loved that the characters finally addressed the issue of going home to the Enchanted Forest by saying that while modern conveniences might be nice, it’s not their home. I loved the great twist at the end.

However, I didn’t love how quickly Archie’s “death” was resolved. Not that I wanted them to drag it out for a really long time, but I think it would have made more of an impact if it wasn’t resolved in the very next episode to give Regina time to really think things were hopeless. Also, what took Archie so long to get to the Charmings other than just the writers trying to be all dramatic. I also agree with EvilQueen that the actors in that scene were all flat, so it didn’t have as much impact as it should have had, and the flip-flopping of Henry was really bizarre too. Maybe if we had seen more moments of him struggling to believe that Regina really killed Archie, the flip-flopping at the end would have made sense.

Speaking of dragging things out and missed opportunities, now it seems like we’ll never get any closure on the Archie, Marco, and Blue Fairy wardrobe debacle since Eion Bailey will be leaving soon, and they haven’t even mentioned August/Pinocchio at all since “Lady of the Lake”. August isn’t one of my favorite characters especially after “Tallahassee”, but it’s just ridiculous how the show dropped the ball on that story line.

I also hated how Cora wasn’t seen in this episode. I understand that Barbara Hershey’s time might be limited, but couldn’t they have come up with something better than just having her conveniently not around Hook’s ship when Belle goes aboard. Likewise, where was Hook’s crew?

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@RumplesGirl wrote:

It could be as simple as Rumpelstiltskin tricking her into getting it back. I just think it’s unlikely right now that they’ll follow the Miller’s Daughter story exactly by having Cora get out of giving up her baby to Rumpel by guessing his name. I know Henry Sr. doesn’t refer to him by name, and it’s certainly possible that he kept his name from people until Cora found out what it was, and then after that he just decides to tell everyone his name.

With regards to Henry Sr, I think it makes total sense that Cora never told him about Rumple. If she married Prince Henry based on the fact that she could spin straw into gold, you don’t tell your new husband that it was all a trick and that you made a deal with the Dark One. He could banish you, annul the marriage, ect. She deceived royalty, so I think we need to bear that in mind. (Just like Cinderella didn’t tell Thomas about her deal with Rumple)

That’s a good point. It’s likely they probably never dealt with each other face to face for Rumpel to introduce himself properly, and Cora didn’t tell her husband every detail about her deal if she told him the truth at all. Maybe in We Are Both when he’s telling Regina about what Cora use to be like, he thinks that the Dark One went after Cora for no reason because he still doesn’t know the truth about Cora’s deal.

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@RumplesGirl wrote:

I’ve asked that already in the other thread, but maybe it’s better to discuss it here: Why should Cora ever have given back the dagger if she once had it? Cora doesn’t struck me as a person caring much about deals or code of honor, she does, what she thinks she has to do. So, unless she had no idea, why the dagger is so important for Rumple, why should she have given it up? I mean, come on, controlling the Dark One, what a power that offers, power to become rich and powerful and get everything for the daughter. Not saying the story by no means could go that way, but then have to come up with some good explanation, why Cora hasn’t the dagger anymore.

Yeah, I can’t answer this. lol. I admit it’s a huge hole for this whole “dagger” theory. But I don’t think it’s his name either just because Rumple always introduces himself, which is strange. If Cora found the dagger, made the deal for magic she may have thought she’d be powerful enough to take him on once she gave back the dagger. And we do know she and Rumple are almost equal in power; Rumple admitted that their fight was a close one in “Into the Deep.” Cora could have kept the dagger and controlled the Dark One but it would have meant that there would always be one person more powerful than her, which I think would have occurred to her and trouble her. She could have killed him and become the Dark One, but Cora’s so vain that she may not have wanted to be green? (I’m stretching a bit here, I know 🙂 )

It could be as simple as Rumpelstiltskin tricking her into getting it back. I just think it’s unlikely right now that they’ll follow the Miller’s Daughter story exactly by having Cora get out of giving up her baby to Rumpel by guessing his name. I know Henry Sr. doesn’t refer to him by name, and it’s certainly possible that he kept his name from people until Cora found out what it was, and then after that he just decides to tell everyone his name.

However, I agree that with RumplesGirl that Rumpel admitted that he and Cora are almost equal in power and that they fought a close fight once. He also seems very scared of her, and I think that maybe related to the Dagger. If she only guessed his name and got out of her deal, I don’t think he would be so concerned about her; although, I could be wrong about that. I also don’t know why they would possibly fight if Cora was just able to simply guess what his name was to get out of their deal like in the original Miller’s Daughter tale, and I think that there must have been something more that went on during the time that she first made the deal and when Rumpel decided to go a different route and just wait until Regina was older. Now I guess it’s possible that Cora only found out about the Dagger and saw his name to be able to guess it and didn’t actually get a hold of it to control him, and he’s scared that she even knows of its existence. I think it goes beyond though because of how frightened Rumpel is of her, and how something must have lead to them fighting each other magically at least one time.

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Thanks for sharing your story ScarletLady. That was incredibly brave.

However, I have to agree though with the posters that don’t think that Cora and Eva are sisters. Not that this show doesn’t like to connect the characters in any way they can, but I think they’re just connected because Cora was the one responsible for Eva’s death.

Just the way they portrayed Cora in “The Stable Boy” gave me the impression that she herself didn’t come from wealth/royalty, and that she tried very hard to attain a certain status, evidently achieved that status for a short time based on recent spoilers, but lost it all and tried to put Regina into a position of finally accomplishing what she could not do.

Not that it can’t mean that Cora’s plans were more about getting revenge on her sister than just about trying to get Regina to marry into wealth/power, but the way Cora came across to me was like one of those stage mothers from hell, who couldn’t do something when they were younger, so they force their children especially their daughters into trying to accomplish the goal to be able to live vicariously through them like Mama Rose Thompson or Dina Lohan. She just didn’t come across as someone who grew up in that lifestyle at all, and they gave no hints at that time that Snow and Regina might be related. However, they did possibly hint that Cora may have been the one responsible for Snow’s mother’s death because Cora tells Regina that Regina has no idea what she’s had to do to get Regina into a position to marry Leopold. Plus, she obviously was the one that spooked Snow’s horse with magic, so evidently getting King Leopold to marry Regina was part of Cora’s long con all along.

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I agree with this except I don’t think that automatically means they are sisters. I think Cora just really wants a throne (any throne) back. And she’s willing for it to be Regina because I think we all know that Cora would be the true power behind the throne. She could kill Eva without it being a family intrigue. We know Cora arranged for Snow’s horse to go go crazy in Stable Boy thus leading for Regina to save SW and met Leopold, so I don’t think it’s far outside the realm of possibility that she’s been plotting to take the throne for much longer.
If Henry did lose his kingdom/throne to George, it wouldn’t make sense for her to go after that realm because George had an heir, the original James who would have been the same age as Snow, and thus not marriageable age for Regina. Killing George wouldn’t help Cora get a throne.
I suppose she could have arranged for Regina to marry George but that wouldn’t be faithful to the original Fairy Tale.

As for why she picked King Leopold, I agree with the above post that it may have been simply for the fact that Leopold didn’t have an heir while George technically did, since the only people that likely knew that James wasn’t George’s real son were George, his wife, and Rumpelstiltskin, so Regina could have gave Leopold a male son. Plus, I’m not sure where Cora was living at the time, but maybe she and Henry were banished from King George’s kingdom and were living in King Leopold’s kingdom, and it was just more convenient to target Leopold. Like say hypothetically, Prince Thomas’s father would have made a good target too, but maybe he lived thousands of miles away from Cora, so it’s not like she could orchestrate a long con from that far away and not look suspicious.

Speaking of Prince Thomas, in a round about way, personally I see Cora being similar to Ella in some ways. I think their personalities were very different, but I think they were both given the chance to make a deal with Rumpelstiltskin in exchange for their first born. However, they chose different paths after Rumpel reminds them of what will happen when their babies born. So Ella decides to give up her new life of wealth and status to try to protect her unborn child that way.

On the other hand, it seems that Cora may have tried to think she could have both her child and her new life of wealth and status. So like in RumplesGirl’s theory which she posted in “The Miller’s Daughter’s” spoiler section, I think she got a hold of the Dagger, so that Rumpel would have to agree to whatever she wanted which was getting to keep Regina and getting to still be Princess/Queen. Rumpel agrees because he doesn’t have any other choice, but he already has a plan to get back at Cora by making it so Henry loses his kingdom to George, and Cora is left with nothing but Henry and Regina. As years go by, Cora becomes really bitter and angry with herself that she finally was a Princess/Queen, but if she hadn’t wanted to hold onto Regina instead of just handing her over to Rumpelstiltskin, she could still be Princess/Queen. I think that maybe why she told Regina that love was a weakness because she grew to see herself as being weak.

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Yes, I agree. I’ve loved her since she was Lois on General Hospital. I always wondered why her career never took off more because she’s beautiful, and everything I’ve seen her in from Ed to Keeping the Faith, I always thought she did a good job.

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@PriceofMagic wrote:

Rumple has always had to deal with his problems himself. Before he became the dark one, he was known as the village coward and probably had no friends to turn to. When he became the dark one, everyone was afraid of him so he was alone. Those that he did associate with such as Regina were not the type of people you’d want to see you in a vulnerable state. Rumple was, and to an extent still is, a very private person. He’s learning to open up to Belle but centuries of keeping emotions and feelings to himself from other people is a hard habit to break. Also, how many times has Rumple used someone’s feelings and emotions against them in order to manipulate them? The fact that Rumple openly admitted that he took Hook’s hand because Hook took his wife shows that he is opening up to Belle but admitting that he killed Milah isn’t something taht can just be dropped into general conversation.

Belle has never seen Rumple in a vulnerable state. She knows that the persona he puts on when making deals is just an act but she has never seen him at his lowest and Rumple doesn’t want her to see him like that. Before he became the dark one, Rumple saw himself as weak and powerless. Milah only reinforced that belief in him. Before he became the dark one, Rumple was at his most vulnerable and Milah told him that she never loved him. Rumple may think that asking for help is weak and may fear, however irrational, that Belle may reject him if she sees him as weak.

When Rumple is telling Belle about taking Hook’s hand, the way he says it is very unemotional. It’s more of a “He did this so I did that” rather than admitting how much losing Milah hurt him. Rumple doesn’t want Belle to see him vulnerable.

Hook also reminds Rumple of the time when he was powerless, when he couldn’t stand up to Hook.

Excellent points. He should tell Emma, but given his past, it’s not unsurprising that he doesn’t want Emma to know either especially since maybe he thinks that would make him look weak that he had to go to someone else for help, and a woman at that. (Not that he’s ever been shown to be misogynistic, but having Hook around is going to stir up even more feelings of self loathing on Rumple’s part.)

Well, when you think about it, neither Emma or Snow mentioned Hook to either Rumple or Regina. It was always Cora they were talking about.

This is another excellent point. Rumple may not have any clue that Cora came through with Hook too. For all he knows, Hook came from Neverland, and has never met Cora.

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@docxen wrote:

Ok, this is a long shot but who do we know but everyone in storybook doesn’t that could of been the one killed. Yes i’m saying i think she killed Neil. No one one know in storybook that he’s missing and he had time to get there from whatever city he was in. Also, Cora would not know him probably.

Oh docxen, I bet you wished it was Emma she killed, lol. I missed you in chat this past Sunday. I’m not sure if I showed up too late, or maybe you weren’t there. I hope to see you this Wednesday. 😀

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@MagicKingdomღ wrote:

Woop woop! Destroy that beast Belle!

Now that I think about it, this is the third “beast” Belle has encountered. First it was Rumpel, then it was Red and now it’s this monster. Girlfriend knows how to attract some real weirdoes. 😆

lol, that’s so true. 😆 I also agree with everyone that Rumple needs to tell Belle pronto about what really happened to Milah before Hook does. At least if Rumple does, she’ll be upset, but I think she can eventually forgive him. If Hook does it, I don’t know if she could be able to forgive Rumple at least not as quickly as she could if he just tells her the truth.

I can’t believe that we got four sneak peeks in one day, and it’s Tuesday! (I usually try not to watch them, but since they were posted so early, I knew I wouldn’t be able to hold out until Sunday. )

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