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@CrownedWithLaurels wrote:

Forgive me for not foraging through the forums to grab the link, (on my phone, so its a little hard) but doesn’t one of the big sites like tvline, or TVGuide or spoiler TV say, “after this ep you won’t be wondering who she is as much as what the (bleep) her agenda is?” I mean, they bleeped it themselves. Sounds like enough ammo for speculation. She has an agenda. Or she really doesn’t and they just did that whole dramatic “what the — is her agenda” just to trick us.

They could be just tricking us, but I don’t think they would do that if they didn’t have real spoiler because people go there to read spoilers. If there wasn’t something more to Tamara than just being Neal’s fiancee, I think they would have done the whole ploy of giving away another spoiler unrelated to whatever the person who sent in the question was wondering about since I believe that person asked about Emma and Neal. TVLine does that all the time where someone will ask “what’s in the future for character A”, and because they don’t know, they just answer with what they do know. So it would be like “Character A’s life does look bad right now especially when new character Z shows up and does this” and whatever character Z could be doing might be totally unrelated to character A.

For instance, I remember someone asking about Neal awhile ago, and they revealed the spoiler about Johanna even though Johanna had nothing to do with Neal’s story at all. So if they say she has an agenda of some kind, I think that she must, and that it must be pretty juicy since it seems they want to hype up her character being too good to be true.

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@Phee wrote:

The “steep price” could be that The Dragon can fix him, but it would mean living the rest of his life knowing that he failed in his task and screwed everyone in SB. If so, then that price was too steep for August, and instead he went back to attempt to fulfill his task instead of taking the easy way out (again).

Assuming the Dragon is Mushu or someone that is connected to Mulan’s world, I think it could go possibly both ways right now. The simplest way is just to have August take the easy way out again and have that be the price, but if they want to do a possible twist that maybe it’s in someone’s or some character’s best interest to have August’s memories be erased, then maybe making sure Emma/Neal don’t get back together was the price that August willingly or unwillingly paid.

So, obviously I’m making up the Tamara connection. ( forgive me, I see Swanfire in everything. lol.) But the rest is a bit more plausible, I think. The whole timing with Tamara meeting Neal just after August leaves for Storybrooke just seems like a HUGE coincidence to me.

Yes, I’m just going by how the writers love to have everyone connected. So going by that, I think Tamara will most likely at least be Greg’s HER, but it’s also possible that she could be connected to the Dragon too. Plus, I like to see Swanfire in everything too, lol, well maybe not quite everything, but ever since I suspected that Bae was going to turn out to be Henry’s father, it really made sense that everything does actually revolve those two because of Bae being the reason the Curse was created and Emma being the only one that could break the Curse. Also, they ended up creating Henry who really is the center of the show, so in a way Swanfire is everywhere and in everything.

Plus, I really think they love to do parallels between Snowing, Rumbelle, and Swanfire when they can and since the other two couples got to be a part of some kind of curse/spell, I don’t think they’ll be able to resist doing this with Swanfire hence the introduction of the Curse of the Empty-Hearted.

On a related note: I still belong to the group of speculators who think August is the “boy” prophesized in Rumple’s undoing. Especially since August turns into a boy this episode. From the previews we saw, er, heard that August confronts someone (Tamara???) about planning to “take magic from Storybrooke”. If August is somehow responsible for her meeting Neal and getting to SB, maybe that’s how the prophesy unfolds?

I like that idea, but I thought K&H ruled it out. I’m not sure though because it seems they’re always on Twitter nowadays that it’s hard to keep track of what they’ve said.

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@LisaS wrote:

@craxyfox wrote:

There seems to be a lot of resentment towards Tamara around the blog realm, and we’ve barely met her yet
Yea she looks a little sketchy from the promo, but most of this dislike seemed to form as soon as we knew that she’s Neal’s fiancée 😆

Oh Yeah I admit that I am a SwanFire Fan. I love Emma & NealFire together with Henry. I think they will eventually end up back together. I wouldn’t call it resentment exactly, It’s just I don’t trust her intentions towards Neal & the people of Storybrooke.

Yes, I actually didn’t want her to be evil unless they went all the way with it like Cora and not someone that’s obviously an obstacle never to be seen or heard from again sort of like King George.

First, I don’t like the idea of Tamara just being an obstacle never being seen/heard from again because I hate bad love triangles where they try to keep a couple apart by using an outsider who just happens to be evil that way everyone can cheer for the other two parts of the triangle to get together. It’s better writing when the writers make it difficult to cheer for one couple over another because everyone in the triangle is well written and someone isn’t left being one dimensional. I think that Swanfire have enough obstacles that they could have used to keep them apart without a love triangle, and if they do insist on there being one, as the main character of the show, it should be built around Emma not Neal. Plus, if they do get back together, he needs to really woo her to make up for his past mistakes. I know he had good intentions, but he was still in the wrong for sending her to jail like he did.

Second, this show doesn’t have the best record when it comes to POC, so I’m very apprehensive with what they do with Tamara. I was hoping that they wouldn’t make her just a mere inconvenience to SwanFire. I was also hoping they wouldn’t make her evil unless she happened to be a big bad like Cora because I think it’s too easy to make her bad and then have her disappear off the canvas in a short time. No, if she’s bad, I want her to be one of next season’s big bads, and to have as much screentime as Cora got this season.

I did try to give her character the benefit of the doubt before the promo, but now with the promos plus the description of her character about her not stopping until she gets what she wants, I think there’s something more to her character than just having run across Neal and them falling in love. Now sometimes the promos can be misleading, but more often than not this season, they’ve gave away an awful lot before an episode has even aired like the Whale fiasco. Plus, I think there’s some clues this season that might be pointing towards what Tamara is really up to. First, there’s the mysterious HER, and we know how the writers love to make everyone connected, so it seems likely right now that Tamara could be using/working with Greg if she was also using/working with August. Then, there was Rumple’s hint about how no one would miss Cinderella’s Fairy Godmother. It could be true, but it was such an odd thing to include in that episode that more than likely we’ll find out that someone does miss her. If Tamara is only playing Neal, then it could be possible that she wants revenge against Rumple’s son because Rumple killed someone dear to her.

Finally, in last week’s episode, even though we were told before that magic couldn’t make someone love someone else, apparently it can do a pretty good job of fooling someone into thinking that he/she is in love with someone else. Now we know this is going to come up again because of how much attention they drew to it just like with Cora’s candle, we knew that it wasn’t just going to go unused because of how much attention they put on it. It just seemed odd to many SwanFire shippers that Neal fell in love so quickly with Tamara assuming that he just met her right around the time that August left for Storybrooke. I think he probably did feel that Emma did move on and go back to FTL with her family, so it’s possible that he’s just settling with Tamara because she’s a good presence in his life. It’s also possible though that she may have done something to him to get him to believe that he’s in love with her. Since Neal is non-magical but Emma is magical, maybe they had to set up a love triangle like this if Tamara is also magical because Emma could be the only one to stop Tamara’s hold over Neal since it looks like he’s on the outs again with his dad soon, and Regina is definitely not going to come to his aid. It definitely fits in with how SwanFire has parallels between the other two major canon couples in Snowing and Rumbelle if SwanFire has their own Curse that they have to break together with their true love. For Snowing, it was the potion that Snow took that made her forget Charming and the multiple sleeping curses, and for Rumbelle, it was Belle’s kiss to Rumple that started to break the Dark One’s Curse had he let it work, so I could definitely see the writers going there with SwanFire too.

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@LisaS wrote:

@RumplesGirl wrote:

RumplesGirl I was just thinking the very same thing about August suggesting to Tamara to take romantic interest in Neal. Here is another idea what if Tamara cast that curse of the Empty Hearted on Neal like Regina wanted to do to Henry. It would explain why Neal who we know even at the end of Tallahassee was still very much in love with Emma is now engaged to Tamara

This is from the thread about the press release for this episode,

Meanwhile, before the curse was cast, August is introduced to a man of magic who may be able to prevent him from turning back into wood — but at a steep price — on “Once Upon a Time,” SUNDAY, MARCH 24 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

I was just wondering though if Tamara was connected to the mysterious magical man or not because maybe the price that August has to pay is something about making sure that Emma and Nealfire stay apart. Just throwing it out there.

Because with the curse of the empty hearted and with the fountain of youth spell being introduced this season, I wonder if Tamara is a fairy or is magical if she perhaps Tamara will end up using both. First, she used the curse of the empty hearted on Nealfire, and then she’s going to use the fountain of youth spell on August to make sure that he can’t spill any secrets perhaps or maybe she’ll be behind him wanting the spell done on himself.

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@KFChimera wrote:

I actually got more of a what could have been vibe for the father Kurt, up until of course, he did not want to stay. Not that Regina was into him as she was Graham, but maybe she was thinking “instant family unit’. He wouldn’t be the first widower she’d married to get something else after all!

I was thinking almost the same thing before I knew for sure that Regina did something bad to him. I think they would have looked good together, and even though I figured that she was going to kill him and/or worse, I still held out hope that maybe he would invite her to visit them, and that at the end of the series, she’d find a way to get her happy ending with Kurt like turning back Kurt’s age so they could still have a decent amount of time to live together and getting away from the Charming family and from magic. I guess that’s not going to happen now though.

Really don’t think Regina is shippable with anyone on the canvas now except maybe Hook and King George, just someone that’s a villain, because imo, the writers just don’t seem to know where they’re doing because one minute they’re trying to make her sympathetic and the next minute they’re having her do something psycho that makes me doubt whether she’s even sane.

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@marty mcfly wrote:

why did he call regina about henry?? I don’t get it. he can’t possibly be on her side!

Well there’s two schools of thought that I’ve read so far.

The first is that he didn’t know that Regina = Mayor Mills, so he only had good intentions when he was trying to help Henry.

The second is that he did know Henry was Regina’s adopted son, but he’s trying to come across as an ally to Regina in order to find out where she has his dad.

I think both are possible, but right now I lean more towards the second theory because I would think that when he was off-screen that he would have found out what Mayor Mills was doing and more about her life. Then, again I guess Regina still hasn't found out that Neal is Henry's father, which seems weird to me.I guess she thinks he's only Rumple's son, and doesn't think it's odd that he's trying to help out the Charmings so much.

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@RumplesGirl wrote:

I think those are a lot of points you’ve made but I sincerely hope not. I think it would be very creepy. She wanted to be his mother and suddenly she’s dating him? I’m still Team Hook/Regina.

Yes, I agree with both you and PriceofMagic that it would be disgusting if they did go that route. In fact, when sneak peeks about “Welcome to Storybrooke” started to come out last week, I wished in one of my posts that if Greg turned out to be Owen, and if Regina did do something to his father, please never let Regina/Greg happen.

The only way I would be even close to okay with it is if Regina had screwed up Gregowen’s life so badly that he was disturbed enough to be okay with being in a romance with her, and she finally realized and it actually stuck how awful her actions have been that she did the same thing to Gregowen that her mother, Rumple, Jefferson, Dr. Whale, etc. did to her. That she was the only one responsible for creating this Gregowen monster instead of a guy who probably would have turned out fairly normal if she hadn’t kidnapped his dad and let him grow up without either parent and thought of as crazy because no one believed that a mysterious town just happened to appear when he was camping with his father and that some evil lady abducted his father, and the realization of that makes her finally realize that redemption isn’t about trying to make your son love you, or make the town like you, it’s about trying to make up for the pain that you’ve caused in others.

Since I don’t really see redemption sticking at this point because the writers seem more concerned with having Regina throw a pity party in almost every episode this season, I definitely don’t want Greg/Regina to happen in any shape or form.

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I think Greg may be stalking Regina. All the footage of magic use Greg has collected has been of Regina, and Greg took a photo of Henry’s bag before calling Regina and telling her he was in the woods.

I agree except I wouldn’t use the word stalking because I think it has a negative connotation, more like gathering evidence, and so far I can’t really blame him since it only seems like he’s interested in getting his father back.

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@RumplesGirl wrote:

Yeah, this show is careful about that stuff. I think August, Neal, Greg, Tamara are all connected even if they don’t know it (thought I suspect Tamara does know it)

When I first read that she was going to be Neal’s fiancee, I didn’t want to be one of those crazy shippers that wishes death upon her or hoped that she would turn out to be evil just to make her an easy obstacle because I don’t like it when other ships have done that to Neal or really any character that I like in a pairing just because they might like a different pairing. I was also apprehensive because the track record with this show and minorities isn’t very good, so I was hoping that Tamara wouldn’t just be some cardboard villain or basically just a plot device to keep SwanFire apart for longer.

However, now that it looks like there is something suspicious about her, I hope they just go all out and make Tamara a really BAMF since they’ve written themselves in a corner now with Regina because she’s the most entertaining when she’s being evil but if she keeps being evil then the good guys look moronic for not trying to take her out. I know they were trying that with Cora, but unfortunately since Barbara Hershey didn’t want to become a regular of the show, there was a lot more telling than showing of how evil/scary Cora was, imo. So I just want a good villain again that really steps up instead of wishy-washy Regina, incompetent Hook, MIA King George, and dead Cora. I just want a villain to step up his/her game, and maybe even get the better of Rumple this season or next season and who doesn’t throw a pity party every episode.

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@LisaS wrote:

I am changing my position on Tamara originally I thought she could just be an ordinary normal person from this world now I’m not so sure I think there is definitely more to her character. I have the feeling that she knew August and who he really is and if that is the case then I think it is entirely possible that she and August could have worked together to get Henry to Storybrooke when he was born. I think Tamara may have spied on August’s & Neal’s meeting in New York. I’m beginning to suspect that Tamara could also be Greg’s mysterious “Her” I don’t think she could be Tinkerbell but I do think Tamara could possibly be a fairy who maybe wants revenge on Rumple for a past wrong. We know that Rumple has killed faries before in the past and one way to get revenge on Rumple would be to go after his son who escaped to this world before the curse.

Yes, I know it was already mentioned in the thread before that Tamara could possibly be related to Cinderella’s fairy godmother, but I just wanted to add that I forgot that they did bring her up this year with Rumple saying nobody missed her. It could be true, or it could be the show foreshadowing that someone did in fact miss her and was going to get revenge on Rumple.

Now I’m wondering if Tamara brings Hook to Storybrooke whether she’ll also work with him somehow if she knows or finds out how badly he wants to get revenge on Rumple too. I think it’s likely that she is the one that brings him there unless they just have him show up again without any explanation like Mr. Gold’s car returning to Storybrooke. So it’s possible that he lets something slip on the long car ride to Storybrooke like how he hates Neal’s father because of what he did to the woman he loves or something like that without necessarily giving away that the town is full of people from FTL, and she works that angle to possibly get rid of Rumple like sending him to Neverland. However, I think maybe they target Henry, or something backfires and Henry becomes the target, but this time Rumple makes the right decision by going with his grandson to Neverland instead of being a coward.

I’m not really sure, but I’m just trying to tie the spoilers that we know of to Hook and Tamara doing something that possibly leads to all of the main cast or most of the main cast going to Neverland. (Although I like the idea I read yesterday of Neverland coming to Storybrooke instead because I don’t want the main cast to be separated for that long again like this season.)

Right now I think Greg will just be a pawn to Tamara, but eventually he’ll figure it out, and target Regina and possibly other magical people next season without Tamara’s “help”. It just depends if they keep him sympathetic but gray, I think he’ll just target Regina, but if they do make him darker, he might just go after anyone that does magic.

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@Elle wrote:

I’m bit annoyed with Henry when yelled at his family about how they had to be good and not hurt Regina. It seems he forgot how many times she tried to kill them. And he continues to treat Emma horribly just because she lied–yes she was wrong, but as she apologized for it and told him how Neal had hurt her, he should try to understand.

I agree, Elle. While I’ve been cutting Henry some slack for the past few episodes because not very much time has past, tonight I really reached the breaking point. It was a combination of awkward lines and giving Jared Gilmore to much too handle. I feel badly for singling him out because I know he gets a lot of criticism out there a lot of it I feel unwarranted criticism, but I just don’t think tonight was one of his better episodes. However, a lot of it was probably the writing because I think they’re trying to make the show too simplistic by having Henry yelling at everyone about how bad magic is.

I get that he’s a kid, but I don’t think that should mean that he can say or do whatever he wants and never receive any discipline. Likewise, I think it’s awful that because the writers have written themselves into a corner about how magic was supposed to work differently here when it really doesn’t, the only way they’ve thought to overcome that is by having someone not do something evil or in the case of letting Rumple die, something smart, because Henry wouldn’t like it. I understand that everyone is connected through him and that he’s going through a lot, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t pull him aside and explain that killing Regina is just one option they might have to do if she doesn’t stop going after them first. I don’t know if I’m explaining this quite right, but it’s like he wants to have it both ways. So he wants to be treated as an equal when it comes to the truth, but then he still wants to act like a child when it comes to facing the realities that there might not be a way to stop one of his moms without killing her.

Also, I think this episode shows once again how Regina is not a good mother. Not only with her attempt to make Henry love her, but how she separated a child from his father. The annoying part was that the show was aiming for this to make Regina mor sympathetic, but all I feel for her is disgust.

Oh, I agree. Lana Parrilla is a wonderful actress, but the more they try to make Regina sympathetic, the more it backfires for me. I just felt bad for poor Gregowen. I’m starting to warm up to his character now especially if he joins the good guys in taking Regina down. I really hope he finds his dad, and that his dad is still the same age. It seems unlikely because Henry aged since he was never part of the curse, but if his dad is still the same age, maybe they can still have time left together that Regina robbed them of.

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