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@CrownedWithLaurels wrote:

*Types a new theory* *deletes* *repeats 1293847489 times*

Too funny. I did read an interesting theory tonight about Tamara though. http://spoilingouat.tumblr.com/post/45643792793/spoilers-and-speculation-for-upcoming-ouat-read-at

First, I just want to write that I was hoping that Tamara wouldn’t be evil because I don’t really feel like she was a threat to SwanFire, so I just wanted her to be a cool character in her own right since this show doesn’t really use that many POC, and when they do, they usually either die quickly, are evil, or get to be back up to the white characters.

Since it doesn’t look like that is going to happen though, I think this theory could come true. Remember that OUaT loves to do foreshadowing like how Baelfire turned out to be Neal, or how Greg turned out to be Owen, or how we were told Rumple can make someone younger again which is foreshadowing August becoming a boy again in the next episode, well tonight we were introduced to the idea that with the right spell someone can make someone else love someone even if it’s not “true love”. Obviously, this will come up again because it’s too important for them not to return to the idea.

Now remember the casting call for Tamara,

She’s beautiful, artistic, relaxed, friendly, charming and smart. She’s also ambitious, fearless and a born leader, and she won’t stop until she gets what she wants.

I still believe that she is Tinkerbell, so this would fit in nicely with that if Nealfire is Peter, or possibly if she’s using Neal just to find the real Peter.

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@Phee wrote:

Agreed. The fact that Bae is still hanging around him must mean that Rumple’s making an effort.

I’m not so sure about this because there’s a loose transcript out there of what was said in that particular scene.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1843230/board/thread/211911944

So first of all, I only really got to watch one scene because the other was indoors so we were all outside not really seeing anything. AND my wording might not be exact but it SHOULD be pretty close. Also, the other scenes were earlier in the morning and I was still at school so I’ll post what I have. AND ONE LAST THING. DAVID ANDERS IS ADORABLE OKAY.

Gold, Neal and Whale and Belle/Lacey scene (She’s wearing a red leather-ish jacket with a black top with black shorts/skirt and long black panty hose with blue heels)
Whale is on the ground while Gold and Belle/Lacey is next to him
Whale: ”WHAT WHAT WHAT?!”
Gold: (things I can’t hear) KISS MY BOOT
Gold lifts his shoe so it’s directly on top of Whale’s face
Belle is watching and it’s just very un-Belle like
Neal runs in the scene and grabs Gold
Neal: ”WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING!?”
Gold: ”LET GO OF ME, SON!”
and Whale walks away like a sexy *beep*
And somethings I can’t hear and Gold says somthing to Belle/Lacey and she leaves
I think Gold was threatening Henry and Neal started shouting at him
And I think Gold said he doesn’t care about Tamara or something similar to that
Neal shouts “WE’RE GETTING MARRIED”
Neal: ”You know, you haven’t changed one bit”
more stuff I cannot hear
Gold: “Yet, you’re still here”
Neal: ” FOR HENRY! NOT FOR YOU”
And Neal walks away and scene
Pictures of filming (crappy ones I took with my phone trying to not to be suspicious)

Although maybe it will be different in context or maybe the person who wrote this spoiler didn’t hear everything correctly, like Ser Dragon, I am disappointed in these turn of events not surprised but disappointed. Maybe it will turn out better, but like ItachiIshtar and I were discussing last night in the live chat, since they have Regina going darker again and then it looks like Rumple goes darker again and likely the cast will be separated again as some stay behind in Storybrooke and others go to Neverland for awhile, it does worry me that at this point they’re just reusing the same story lines over and over, and it’s only the second season.

I know that they sort of wrote themselves in a corner with Rumple and Regina because they can’t redeem them too early, but at the same time, if they keep being evil and going after the heroes, it makes the heroes look even dumber after awhile that they don’t get rid of them in some way even if they try to use the excuse that they can’t because Regina and now Rumple are related to Henry.

I still enjoy the show, but I do worry since they’ve lost quite a bit of viewers this season that if they keep using the same ideas that made them lose viewers this season, it might not even last another full season. Right now it doesn’t seem likely that it will be canceled before it finishes 3 full seasons, but then again I never thought that ratings would drop so dramatically this season either. I want to say that it’s stabilized, and it’s numbers are still pretty good even for leveling off, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they just keep reusing the same plots if people decide to watch something else.

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@PriceofMagic wrote:

Hook is not exactly a child friendly guy. He is too focussed on his revenge against Rumple to care about who gets hurt in the crossfire. Henry would just be collateral damage.

I know there’s disagreement here about Hook actually doing this to Henry, but like you, I don’t think that Hook cares who gets hurt as long as it hurts Rumple. Maybe he’ll learn that it’s not doing him any good to want revenge, but since he’s wanted it for so long, I’m not sure I find it believable that he’s going to do anything different. Plus, he may not actually be planning to physically harm Henry, but instead he may have something in mind like just kidnapping him to get Rumple into a trap.

Either way though, I think that something may happen to Henry because of Hook, and this will force the others to have to work together temporarily.

It's possible that Henry runs away again, but given the titles of the last two episodes, I'm guessing that the main characters or some of them have to go to Neverland to get Henry back, and Hook just seems like the most likely person to abduct him and take him there. It would be quite the twist if Tamara ended up doing something like that.

Why would our version of Peter Pan have Hook trying to kill Peter Pan when in “reality” Hook wouldn’t hurt a child?

I think it’s important to remember “The Crocodile” too. While I don’t blame Milah for wanting out of a marriage to someone she didn’t love, and I don’t blame Hook for being the man that she ran off with, he did end up hurting a young child by taking Milah with him and possibly would have left Bae an orphan if Rumple had agreed to fight him. So for me, it’s not out of the realm of possibilities that Hook would hurt a child whether directly or as collateral damage if it meant he would get his revenge on Rumple.

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@Keb wrote:

See, I love Rumple to death and I was seriously conflicted by what he did here, too. I’m still desperately trying to work out the tangled emotions behind that cold look as he stands over Regina and Cora’s body. I’m not entirely sure what to make of his “I did nothing” or “Your mother did you no favors.”

I do think he feels very conflicted about the situation–that was not the smug look of a man pleased that his enemy is dead or happy that Regina is suffering. A moment before he fully expected either the dagger or the poison WOULD get him; I think at the point that he called Belle, he didn’t think that Snow would actually manage to use the candle. He was downright shocked when he realized he was no longer in pain.

{Snip}

Gah, so many feels. I’m not sure what to think about Rumple’s role in this right now. Perhaps the coldness and his statements are an attempt to create some emotional distance because he fears the guilt he might feel over living a stolen life. I don’t think that he says “I did nothing,” to cast the blame onto Snow, though her arrival immediately after has that effect, but I do think he’s not ready to take full responsibility for what happened.

I haven’t been able to respond to your other wonderful thread about the Balance of Evil now, but I just wanted to add that agree with this sentiment that I don’t think he was pleased by Cora’s death and I don’t think he was trying to put the blame on Snow either. I don’t think he’s taking responsibility yet either, but in that moment, I don’t think he was thinking “I’ll just blame Snow so that Regina goes after her and leaves me, Belle, and Bae alone”.

It’s very difficult to know where he’ll go now though. First, I just want to say that I think it’s unfair to say that he hasn’t lost like Regina has. True Belle and Bae are alive, but he’s done a lot of damage to them both. They’ve both have heavily paid the price for Rumple’s use of magic. Rumple gets this on some level, but when he finally does decide to get back to his best self and really work at it, I think it will really hit him hard how much Belle and Bae suffered because of his actions. Further, right now he’s paying the price because Belle doesn’t have her memories because Hook went after her to get back at Rumple, and even when her memories return, they still have many problems that they have to overcome before they can truly be together. Likewise, just because Rumple and Neal have reconciled, I’m certain it will be a temporary one and probably a very short once Neal finds out more of what his father did in between his father letting him go and meeting up in NYC.

I do feel bad that Regina lost her true love, but it didn’t mean that she couldn’t have followed her father’s advice and learned to love again. She also didn’t have to marry King Leopold and ruin Snow’s life once she was able to get rid of Cora. Likewise, she’s had several chances to fix her relationship with Henry. At the beginning of this season, the Charmings saved her life several times, and we see in flashbacks, that they also spared her life in FTL. Before she was framed, they let her have access to Henry even though they didn’t have to do that. Emma even invited her to Granny’s after she and Snow returned, which Rumple didn’t even get. So I don’t like this idea that Rumple always wins, and she always loses especially since she spent 28 years “winning” before Emma came to town.

Maybe it’s because he’s usually more level headed than Regina because he generally has control of his emotions and because he has a lot more experience on her to think of these plans where he gets very little blood on his hands. His plans still manage to backfire on him directly like when he thought he could leave Storybrooke after Emma had broken the curse, but found that he would forget why he left Storybrooke in the first place. Likewise, when he finally did find a way to get around that snag, his true love ends up losing her memory and forgetting who he is because he was trying to show her how he could cross the town line. Plus, he’s going to have to take more responsibility for the collateral damage that his actions did to Belle, Bae, and the people that they love and care about.

As the show progresses, I think we’ll see both Regina and Rumple progress and regress with trying to better themselves. During the first third of this season, Rumple was barely trying and basically only giving lip service to Belle, but now it looks like that might change for the rest of the season. Now Regina has regressed, but since they would eventually have to kill her off if she went after the Charmings too much, she’ll likely start to redeem herself again probably around the same time that Rumple falters again. They may both redeem themselves, or maybe neither gets redeemed, or only only one of them will.

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@ItachiIshtar wrote:

I think Bae actually doesn’t know that Rumple killed Millah. I think he would have brought it up during his conversation in “Manhattan.” However, I could see Rumple defensively telling Bae that Millah had also abandoned him. Doubt it would be enough for Bae to forgive killing his own mother, though.

Yes, I can see both arguments if Nealfire really is Peter Pan, but I think that it’s part of the whole one step forward, two steps back that will probably happen many times in Rumple’s and Neal’s relationship over the course of the show now.

I knew it would take Rumple dying or almost dying for Neal to begin softening towards his father, but now that’s happened, they need something major to be an obstacle again for them since right now I think it would be too easy for them to reconcile. The Curse and everything that went with it is pretty major, but I think finding out that his father murdered his own mother would be a bigger shock to Neal and hurt him more than any other information could.

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@Phee wrote:

We’re Oncers, that’s how we roll. 😆

Regarding Hook and his dead man of the year label because he and Rumple are out for each other’s blood, it’s obviously gonna take something major for either or both of them to give up on his vendetta. This is one of the reasons I hope Nealfire(Pan?) and Hook were on friendly terms in Neverland. If he’s stuck in the middle of Hook and Rumple, and if they both care for him, he can tell them to get the eff over themselves and move on, if not for their own sakes, then for his. It would resolve the vengeance storyline so we can move on to something new, without anyone having to die.

I think we may see Henry’s life threatened before the end of the season, but I hope no one else dies.

That would be great to see Neal be used in helping Hook do something else besides trying to get revenge on Rumple all the time, but I don’t think it will be that easy. He’ll definitely tell Neal what Rumple did to Milah, and I also think that now that Cora is out of the way, he’ll be the one to go after Henry, so it forces the Charmings/Rumple family/Regina to work together at least temporarily since we never really got that when Cora was a threat.

As for who is dying, I think that the main group of regulars, (the Charming Family, Rumple, Regina, and Belle to an extent) are safe because their story lines are far from finished. I am worried about the following people though: (warning spoilers ahead!)

1. Red – I don't know if they'll go so far to kill her off, but since it looks likely that Megan won't be on the show next season, they might go this route, or just have her disappear without ever mentioning her again like Kathryn, Ella, Sydney, etc.

2. Geppetto – I think that he'll just disappear when they transform August back into a real boy and maybe pop up a few times like he did this season. However, they might kill him off because then Archie would be in danger assuming that Archie is safe as long as Geppetto is alive.

3. Archie – He doesn't really have a whole lot to do, and while Regina could definitely use someone to talk to, I'm not sure if they'll ever have her going to counseling especially from Archie again since that's what lead to Cora being able to get close to her again.

4. Neal – I think he's pretty safe, but there's always a chance that they could pull a Stableboy and have Rumple revert to being evil again because of Neal's death. I can't see it though since they can potentially use him as a way to introduce other lands once they start to explore his past.

5. Hook – They didn't really get to utilize him that much especially after he broke his leg, and now with Neverland coming up, I doubt they'll kill him off well at least this season. However, if Robin Hood becomes another Mad Hatter fan favorite or they have plans to introduce someone like Dracula, then I would be worried that they were going to find another piece of eye candy to replace Hook sometime next season.

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@EastOfTheSun wrote:

I agree with SOME things you say, (I say this loving Nealfire, Swanfire and liking CaptainSwan too)….Nealfire has to make up for his wrongs (sending Emma to jail SO not nice), he has made some bad choices for sure, and acted cowardly by leaving Emma because of the possibility of being reunited with his father….. BUT I think that he is a GOOD person , and he did want her to be happy and truly loves her, and that everything that happened after Manhattan, seeing her again was a total surprise for him, I believe in his mind he thought when Emma would break the curse, she would have her family, and that they would all go back to fairytale land!! We have not seen August/Neal talk about the details of the curse yet, SO we don’t know if August told him they would all go back to FTL (remember Neal acted surprised to see Emma, he told her “what are you doing here??” this could point to that theory, also to back that up Everyone in the episode “Broken” was asking themselves WHY they did not go back to FTL),

So MAYBE Nealfire though he DID NOT HAVE AN OPTION!! Emma was gone forever (I will believe that until having the writers prove me otherwise) that he would NEVER see Emma again, and as the writers have said he thought “that door was closed for him”, so that is why I think he tried to move on with Tamara, because he thought Emma was forever gone as a possibility for him, But now I guess things could change….Still I hope for Swanfire to work it out, I agree they have a LONG way to go,lots of issues to resolve, BUT maybe the could fall in love again, or maybe not…we will see…

Yes, I agree that he made the wrong choice although he did have good intentions, but he needs to do a lot for Emma to forgive him. However, I don’t think he was acting smugly at all when he and Emma were bantering, ymmv, but even though he may have feelings for Tamara, I think he settled for her because he never thought he would have a chance with Emma again. Now that Emma is back in his life though, I think part of him really wants to recapture what they had before hence him trying to banter like they use to, but the other part thinks that it won’t ever happen because she’s moved on and he’s not worthy enough for her.

And then there’s the bar thing: he totally had the opportunity to win me over when Emma was pouring her heart out saying how much she loved him back then and was hurt by it and instead he just glossed over it with well something good was supposed to come out of it (which it did: Henry) and it’s all fate, destiny, etc. He sure as heck didn’t fight back and say he loved her! I was waiting for him to stand up to her the way he eventually did to Rumple in his apartment when he protected her. I expected them to yell, scream, do SOMETHING, and he just bemoans destiny and acts like it’s no big deal. If he wanted to prove to her that there was “good reasoning” behind it and not just taking advice from Pinocchio this would have been the opportune time. Heat of the moment, high emotions, adrenaline rush: I wanted the argument and it was one-sided! Emma was the only one talking about feelings. Yes Neal said he wanted her to be with her family again…but he basically said “and I don’t want anything to do with that world / life so that’s why I walked away so easily.” THIS was the biggest issue I had with it. Even if he’s just talking about the past (she did use past tense) he could have saved himself over and over in Manhattan saying that he did all of this because he loved her and he never once used that word!

Like Rapunzel, I think part of it is Neal still being stuck at 14 for a very long time, and the other part is that he probably feels like there was no chance even if he said that he still had romantic feelings for Emma. I’m sure eventually he will fight for her, but I don’t think the writers wanted that to happen at that time because right now Emma really isn’t the focus anymore because they had to set up Cora and Regina trying to find the Dagger, Hook going to NYC to kill Rumple, and revealing the prophecy that Rumple knows about Henry more than focusing on Emma’s romantic life. I’m sure later on, probably next season, they’ll get around to that again, but I just don’t think they had the time and space to work that into the last few episodes. I think it’s enough, at least for me, that there’s some feelings there on both sides. I don’t know if anything will come of it, but I think it was nice to see Neal and Emma bantering in this episode and in “The Queen Is Dead” because when they did, it was one of the few light-hearted moments of two very intense episodes. To me it was like how there was the funny scene in “Manhattan” of Snowing talking about how messed up Thanksgiving would be because that episode was also very intense, and they needed a way to add a touch of levity in the past three episodes.

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@Demileto wrote:

I think it’s more likely that Greg Mendell’s an alias Owen Flynn’s using. Greg’s certainly playing bad Mulder with Storybrooke, I doubt he’d be using his real name as people might remember him from back then.

Yes, I think Greg has been looking for Storybrooke for a very long time. It’s so weird because I think Regina was his mother figure or she wanted to be, but what if she doesn’t recognize him and thinks he’s just Greg, and the writers start to pair them up romantically. (Ewww!!!)

I bet he lost his father in Storybrooke in mysterious ways (AKA Regina crushed his heart, don’t ask me how that would happen in a magicless town, I have no idea) and he’s been trying to go back find out the truth ever since.

Although RumplesGirl and slurpeez108 make great points about how it’s unlikely that Greg (Owen) was able to leave town without his father, but I think Regina looks very sinister in her Mayor’s office with the heart on her desk. I’m guessing it’s Graham’s heart and that either Greg or his father catch her with it. It’s possible though that she commands Graham to beat up possibly do more than that to Greg’s father since there’s that one scene of Regina speaking into the heart, and then the other scene of Graham beating Greg’s dad up. I don’t know how she would expect to keep custody of Greg even if she offed his dad, but it’s Regina so who knows what’s going on in her mind at the time. Maybe he runs away after she kills his dad, or he and his dad leave the town after seeing Regina with the glowing heart, which ends up breaking her heart because she had become attached to Greg. Either way, I think it leads to her wanting to adopt her own child like she wanted to with Hansel and Gretel; although, maybe because Henry was the only child, presumably, he was the only one that was able to be brought to Storybrooke or something like that.

THIS. How does that kid even get a hold of dynamite?? Why isn’t someone watching him? LIke Momma Sheriff? Or Grandpapa Sheriff? Or Grandpa-Dark-One-Stiltskin? Or Papa??

I know!!! The bad part is I can already here the Regina apologists complaining about the Charmings and Nealfire being bad guardians. However, I’ll give them a break for now until I see how Henry got a hold of the dynamite.

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@ItachiIshtar wrote:

@HappyEndings wrote:

I don’t know how that AFV stays on that isn’t even funny, I flip to 60 mins that I think is on at that time then back to Once. I don’t think that Red Widwo will make it this looks like another dumb show guess they are running out of ideas 😕

Regarding AFV: The 7pm hour is somewhat considered a death slot, it does well enough, and it’s cheap.

Yes, that’s what I was going to say that it must be incredibly cheap to produce. They don’t even use that many new videos anymore perhaps because more people would rather put them on YouTube instead, and I’m sure that they could find a new host pretty quickly if Tom Bergeron ever wanted too much money.

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@timberump wrote:

I just listened to last night’s podcast and Daniel mentioned that King Leopold had to have been Henry’s older brother. Please this cannot be true. That would be Regina is his niece and he married her. This would also make Snow and Regina cousins. I’m sorry if this has already been posted, but I am just now getting to the podcast. Also, I though princess Eva was there to possibly marry Henry? For some reason I think she was a princess by birth and wasn’t married yet.

I was pretty tired last night and didn’t catch the whole podcast, but when I came in about 9:45PM, there was a lot of debate going on about this. Most people in the forum kept pointing that out that Leopold and Henry couldn’t have been brothers because that would have meant Regina married her uncle by blood. (Insert puking icon here.)

I thought that Daniel amended his theory, but I think he said something about Sunday night only being for his first thoughts about the episode so I suspect on Wednesday night, there will be clarification over the theory. He said this about 10:30 or 11:00 I believe, and by that time, I could barely keep my eyes open. (It didn’t stop me from staying up until 2:00 though, :lol:.)

Jane Espenson also ruled out the idea of Regina and Snow being related at all too.

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