[antbee]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

AntBee: I was going to bring up Child of the Moon but I fear the wrath of the Little Reds. Now, I love Ruby, I do, but I’m starting to wonder what else they can possibly do with her in flashbacks. We had the big reveal that she was the wolf in S1 and that was great. Child of the Moon was the obvious next story to tell, but there can’t be much more and I don’t want them to give me a filler just because they have to serve each cast member, even though I think Meghan Ory is great.

Oh I love Red too, but “Child of the Moon” was so disappointing after the great Red centric episode of season 1. It was nice to see more of her back story, but yes, now there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot left to go with her unfortunately. I do hope that we get to see more of her and Belle together and her and Snow being friends again. I know that right now there’s so many other loose ends to tie up, but it’s been disappointing that Red only went to see Belle once at the hospital, that we know of, and lied to her about magic. I get why she lied, but it was still disappointing that they had her do that. I also want to see more interaction between her and Dr. Whale not necessarily romantic, but something that gives them more to do perhaps.

And as much as I love Belle, her flashback episode in The Outsider didn’t do a whole lot for me. Her story is so wrapped up in Rumple that when they diverge from it, to tell her tale, I don’t lose interest necessarily, but I find myself longing for Rumple.

I enjoyed “The Outsider”, but I can see what you mean about longing for Rumple. Maybe they should have made Belle independent earlier this season and more often than just some glimpses in “The Crocodile” to flesh out her character more instead of waiting until after the winter break.

I agree with you about being in FTL too long. I know why they did it, get us to Xmas and have the final episode before holiday be the big return but it did drag on too much. And a lot of it felt like it was just moving from place to place. Looking back, the begging of S2 had some highlights (Broken, The Crocodile, Queen of Hearts), but overall it was weaker than I expected.

Yes, I enjoyed those three episodes that you mentioned plus I liked “We Are Both”, “Lady of the Lake,” “Tallahassee”, and “Into the Deep”, so there were definitely some strong points, but I think maybe it was all overshadowed by the writers staying in present day FTL for too long.

I think the only times that I really enjoyed the present day FTL story line for the whole episode and not just a few scenes during an episode would be in “Into the Deep” and “We Are Both”. I don’t think that “We Are Both” really counts though since there was only a short amount of time spent on present day FTL.

And I also think we’re never going to get back to the 11 million live viewers unless the do some magic of their own. I just hope ABC sees that each week (live and then over the week) they do bring in about 10 million viewers and at least a 2.8-3.0 ratings share. It’s got to count for something. And if you look at other similar shows, Once is doing better than say Grimm or Beauty and the Beast over on the CW.

Yes, I’m not panicking yet because ABC has so many other shows that are getting worse ratings. I’ll begin to worry though if next season the new shows start to pull in better ratings than Once especially if they seem cheaper to produce and/or easier to resell for syndication like procedurals. Although I think we’ll be almost guaranteed a fourth season since a third seems likely since they do want to get to syndication, and the only way they’ll be able to do that is with four seasons. Not that I want to jinx the show, but I think as long as ratings stay where they are right now for next season, then we’ll get a fourth season because of syndication. I am worried about getting a fifth season though.

[antbee]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

@HappyEndings wrote:

I think people really don’t like this Season as much as they did the 1st one, also all these breaks kind of wear people down. 😕

I wonder why that is. I’ve thought this season had been very strong, especially the last few episodes. Was it the filler episodes people didn’t like? Frankenstien, Tiny, ect? These episodes from Manhattan to the finale are focusing on the main characters. We really need to get a boost next week.

Well I can’t speak for everyone, but even though the first third of the season before the winter break had some good episodes, I don’t think they should have spent so much time in present day FTL and with so many new characters especially Aurora and Mulan. I guess it’s possible that there’s a return trip back to FTL before the end of the season, so they needed to lay groundwork for that to happen. Right now though, it just seems like such a big waste of time when there was so much momentum happening from the Curse being partially broken at the end of last season and the start of this season and seeing how people reacted to that.

Not that I’m against new characters, but I feel like they missed a big opportunity to focus on what happened to the characters that we already knew of in Storybrooke, like Abigail, Frederick, Ella, Sydney, Nova, etc., and how they were adapting to getting their memories back. I know some of it is scheduling because many of the actors were on other shows, but I would have spent more time on that instead of just jumping to present day FTL right away. Or maybe they should have just focused on Storybrooke more by highlighting more than just the main characters, they could have focused on present day FTL but just cut out the flashbacks since when they tried to do three story lines with present day Storybrooke and FTL and flashbacks, most of the time they didn’t work together. Like maybe flashbacks would match either what was going on in Storybrooke or what was going on in FTL, but all three story lines would never really go together.

Further, I think that besides trying to cram three story lines together in one episode, I think they drug out the present day FTL story line for too long. We still could have met Aurora, Mulan, Hook, and Anton and had Emma and Snow only be gone for a two to three episodes instead of nine episodes. I also feel that they focused too much on Regina’s redemption story line during those first nine episodes. I get that it’s a major part of this season, but it just didn’t make for very good television for the most part, imo.

Anyhow, I can see why people left the show in big numbers because they started to lose focus on what made the first season so addictive to watch. There was more action going on in the first half of this season than there was last season, but I think that they sacrificed the characters’ relationships a lot more until the past few episodes. Now that they’re back to focusing in on those relationships more, I think there’s definitely a noticeable change in how great the show can be again. I stuck around because I still enjoy the show even when it’s not a very good episode like how I felt about “The Doctor” or “Child of the Moon”, but there’s so many other options on Sunday nights that I could see how people may have just gave up on it.

I don’t the ratings are enough for me to start panicking yet even though it’s sad the show will likely never get the ratings that it use to. I just hope that the writers realize what they did wrong in losing so many viewers and keep doing what they’ve been doing the last few episodes to keep most of the viewers that they still have.

[antbee]

@Midnight Dreary wrote:

Good point. We’ve learned of numerous different ways to get to from one world to another. Rumpel has tried the magic bean, Jefferson’s hat, Dorothy’s ruby slippers (The Doctor) and then he settled on the curse. So, Rumpel wanting to start a family with Cora didn’t mean that he was giving up on his search for Baelfire. There were many different ways for him to reach him.

I agree. Plus, I think he always had back up plans even if he could see the future like how he tested Ella and Thomas to see how strong their true love was. If Snowing hadn’t worked out, then he could have used baby Alexandra as a back up. I’m sure he had several contingency plans in place in case Regina didn’t turn out to be the one that would enact the curse and Emma didn’t turn out to be the Savior.

[antbee]

@LisaS wrote:

I watched that exchange a few more times between Emma & Neal in Rumple’s shop when the two are in the front of the shop and Emma is making that line with the invisible chalk.
Neal – “You missed a spot”
Emma – “You’re hillarious”
Neal – “I didn’t know you were magical”
Emma – “Oh my are you being judging about this, because you’re not allowed to an opinion about surprises mister son of Rumpelstiltskin”
Neal – “Ooh”
Emma -“What Ooh”
Neal – “I didn’t mean for it to turn out to be a surprise”
Emma – “You think I care about a guy that I dated a decade ago is engaged ?”

Neal had a smile/smirk at what Emma said because Neal NEVER ONCE brought up his engagement to Tamara with Emma during that exchange in fact when David comes back in the room and those two are silent he asks if everything is alright and looks at Emma who nods yes and Neal is looking at his sword smiling.

I think he was smiling because Emma is jealous and now he knows she still cares about him and could want him back

Thoughts anyone ?

They had so many wonderful moments together even though they weren’t in the episode a whole lot.

First, they did what they had to do with getting Henry to safety and working with Emma’s parents despite the whole awkward situation to get Rumple to his shop. Then, they were able to joke around despite the pending danger of Cora and Regina coming. Then, things got all awkward when Neal tried to apologize about Emma finding out about Tamara the way she did, and Emma’s dad coming in. It was great to see Charming go all protective because I have no doubt had Emma been allowed to be raised by David and Snow, he would have been the stereotypical overprotective dad.

Next, when Neal and Emma started fighting against Cora and Regina because they reminded me of how they use to be in their thieving days which was my second favorite moment this episode for them. They had excellent teamwork even if they weren’t too successful against mother and daughter; although, I have to give them credit for holding out as long as they did. (Yes, I know it was the writers who did that to draw out the Snow drama longer, but I’ll take it.)

Then, of course there was father and son’s emotional reconciliation in the backroom. Although, most of the focus was about Rumple and Neal, as a diehard SwanFire shipper, I loved that Emma got to see that part of Neal and see how that shaped his life. I’m not saying that he doesn’t have a long way to go to make up for what he did, even if he had good intentions, but hopefully seeing those kind of Neal moments helps take down some of her walls concerning him. Also, I don’t know how both of them could not be moved by Rumple’s phone call with Belle. I hope that they have Neal making a grand gesture to Emma like that, and hopefully it will be soon. (Swoon worthy moment for sure.)

My absolute favorite SwanFire moment was them being sent out into the woods together. It was just so funny, and even though I know that they rushed back to town as soon as they were deposited out there, my imagination is just going wild thinking about what they could have gotten up to. In fact, I expect a lot of SwanFire shippers’ imaginations are running wild too, so I want to see lots and lots of stories and soon about what happened out there. 😀

[antbee]

@Faux Pax wrote:

I know she was just playing him at the ball, but does any one have the feeling that Henry sr. and Cora might have been an okay match if she hadn’t ripped her heart out?

Yes, I think that she and Regina are alike in that they both caused their own misery. I think if Cora would have learned that just being Henry’s wife or just being Rumple’s wife were okay instead of wanting even more power, she could have been happy.

I don’t think that Henry loved her nor she loved him, but I think that he respected and was charmed by her. I also think that he was a nice and pleasant enough guy that they could have made it work even if it wasn’t true love.

[antbee]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Favorite:
–Forgive the die hard Rumbeller but, that phone call broke my heart even though I’d seen it already. In context, it made it so much more powerful. The most selfless moment of his life. That’s true love. That right there. Not that weirdness with Cora, but that phone call with Belle was true love.
–Emma using magic. That was SIMPLY AMAZING
–Bae and Rumple. My heart just broke.
–Snow and Regina in the vault. WOW. Snow was sneaky and it was unexpected.

Yes, I’m glad that they’re giving Ginnifer Goodwin more to do in the last few episode then just debate over whether she and Charming should go back to FTL or not. Not to say that Josh Dallas is a slouch, but I think they weren’t utilizing her that well this season until now because there’s so much there for them to mine between Regina and Snow. I’m also satisfied that we got to see this dark and cunning side of Snow because I think that Regina has really underestimated the Charmings. Of course, the writing doesn’t help at times making them sometimes the idiots that Regina referred to them as, but Regina learned one of the evil villain rules the hard way tonight, to never underestimate her enemies.

I really can’t say that I feel bad for Regina at all, even though, it seems terrible of me. While I’m happy that it appears she might be going back to her Evil Queen ways for good or at least for awhile because I prefer that over the Regina in the first half of the season, and that she wasn’t actually playing Cora. I know that was a popular theory, but it didn’t work for me because she sent Anton after David, and she did nothing to stop Cora from hurting Johanna. So I’m glad that the writers didn’t have her actually being a double agent.

Least Favorite
–The Cora and Rumple nonsense that we’re all going to be debating about. Did she really love him? Was she playing him? I think she was playing him to get him to change the deal.

I think she cared for him maybe even thought that she loved him, but it wasn’t a deep love since she was willing to throw it all away for power. Even though, there was definitely lust between them, I don’t think that Rumbelle shippers like us have anything to be concerned about. She cared/shallowly loved him, and I think he loved her, but it was definitely not true love like what Belle and Rumple have. It could have turned into that, but again Cora just didn’t love Rumple enough to let it become that. It’s ironic though because I think she would have had more power had she gone with Rumple. I don’t think the relationship would have worked out though because I think she would have gone more power mad a lot sooner had she ran off with Rumple.

Along the same lines I’m just over the moon that the writers put an end to the theory of Regina being Rumple’s daughter. It’s like they specifically wanted to point it out to the audience that Regina was in fact not Rumple’s child. Thank god for that.

[antbee]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

N’awwwww. I love the one of NealFire and Henry steering the ship!

Yes, that picture definitely made my ovaries explode. Nealfire seems to be having that effect on me a lot lately. 😀

[antbee]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I think my problem was more with the line than with Henry. The line was just terrible and while I think Henry is well within his right to be hurt and upset with Emma, the line came across as awkward, especially since seconds before he was excited about going to the museum and getting his camera. I feel like the writers could have done something else to make it clear that Henry is still upset without an awkward line like the pizza one.

Yes, I think it was mostly the writing.

Part of the blame, I think, should go to Neal/Baelfire. He knows he hurt Emma and he knows why she lied. He should sit Henry down and talk to him, tell him what really happened and why Emma is hurt and angry and uncomfortable around him. Instead, he just stood there and let Henry talk down to his mother.

He should, but again I think he doesn’t know how to handle anything yet. Plus, it’s the writing again. They wanted to create drama with the Rumple emergency situation first, and then do another whammy when Emma finds out about Tamara, so they sacrificed Emma and Neal having any talks about anything else.

[antbee]

While I do think it was awkward that he said that because he appeared to be okay by the end of last week’s episode, since only a day at most has passed since he first found out about Neal, I give him a pass for now.

I know the timing with this show is weird because things happen so quickly for the characters on the show, but we don’t really get a sense of that too often imo. Like with Regina’s attempt at redeeming herself, although it lasted a good part of this season, it actually only lasted a very short time in Storybrooke time, definitely no more than two months.

So I give him a break for now since he’s only had a short amount of time to adjust, and Neal hasn’t had any time to adjust at all to being a father figure yet either to correct him. Right now he’s more of a cool uncle type, and while I think he wants to be a father in Henry’s life, it’s hard for him to do that right away. Plus, he’s still mad at Emma for keeping Henry a secret from him. She should be mad at him, but emotions aren’t rational, so for now I cut father and son slack.

Plus, going by spoilers, I think that they set this whole thing up moreso to show that Regina actually could have had a chance to get closer to Henry if she would have kept to the path of good and been there for Henry right now when Emma let him down so badly. However, she chose another path again, and it's going to cost her again.

[antbee]

@soulsurf7 wrote:

Don’t get me wrong I love the show but I think the writing is not as well thought out as last season. And with its success I would hope to see it get even better. In ep. Stable boy I don’t think Regina had a doubt that Cora had planned the whole thing. She says that it was no accident and Cora plays dumb. As Regina leaves, she mutters to herself that she should have let Snow die.

Great points. While season 1 also had its share of problems, I think that season is worse only because there’s not really a season long arc like last season had. While both seasons seem similar in that the last third of the season, episodes seem to be of really good to great quality, I think this season there was lot more floundering since things really didn’t get started, imo, until Emma and Snow finally came back to Storybrooke. Last year had a lot of filler episodes in the middle admittedly that many people, at least online fans, hated like “True North” and “Fruit of a Poisonous Tree”, but this year they seem to be going at a really weird pace. Sometimes it feels like the first season where they’ll drag things out slowly like keeping Emma and Snow in present day Fairy Tale land for most of the first half, but then they’ll really accelerate things that should actually be given more time to make them have more impact like Archie’s “death”.

I also notice that there’s bigger plot holes this season that they either won’t address or have the writers fanwank outside of the show which I hate because not everyone reads their interviews outside of the show. Plus, it’s just incredibly lazy. Like this past episode, while I enjoyed it, I wondered how everyone was suddenly in on the know about Rumple’s dagger.

It makes sense for Cora and Regina to know about it, but why would the Charmings suddenly know about it and what it does. Likewise, if Cora can knock the gun out of Charming’s hand by magic, then I need to know why she couldn’t have done so with the dagger. I know sometimes these are just little nitpicks, but I agree that while I find the show entertaining most of the time, it could be a lot better if they just tightened things up and had someone on staff that picked up on continuity mistakes and what not.

It’s a heckuva lot better than most of the stuff out there right now.

While I don’t watch much television, I agree to an extent. It’s better than most reality based programs, but compared to other hour long dramas, it could do better. There’s plenty of great dramas out there right now (Mad Men, Downton Abbey, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, Justified, etc.), and compared to those dramas and not just television programming as a whole, I wouldn’t say it’s better. It can be great when all the cylinders are firing, but unfortunately it doesn’t always do that. Doesn’t mean I don’t love the show, but some things about it, like the writing, do bother me at times.

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