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I guess I should put this under a spoiler until “The Crocodile” airs.
@Dorothy wrote:
Maybe he's Beaman the stolen antiques dealer? I mean the guy's apartment has an odd assortment of antiques all over the place.
I thought that William “Smee” is going to be Beaman since Captain Hook is going to be Killian Jones, and there's no mention of Michael Raymond-James appearing in the episode.
However, even though Beaman fits Smee too because of who he works for, I thought that it would be perfect for Bae too now that we know he's just like his dad in collecting old stuff, and that Beaman looks like Bae's real name, and because it fits Bae's and Rumple's relationship to me post-Curse. Bae had to be the adult in trying to save his father, and it looks like he's still trying to help his father or at least clean up the mess his father made. So I imagine Bae under the name Beaman talking to his father about antiquities throughout the years, and Rumple not even knowing he was talking to Bae, and Bae sending a subtle message to his dad that he needs to “be a man” and stop being a coward.
Unfortunately, though Michael Raymond-James isn't on the cast appearance list for episode 4, so I don't think he's going to be Beaman.
[adrotate group="5"]This website, http://ouatv1.blogspot.com/2012/10/once-upon-time-michael-raymond-james.html goes into great detail about Mysterious Man’s apartment. It’s similar to the TVLine article that does, but there’s even better pictures at this link. Plus, they finally answer what that hand thing is.
It’s an Aesthetic Apparatus poster, “Control and Capital” http://shop.walkerart.org/collections/posters/products/aesthetic-apparatus-poster-control-capital. If you look at it up close, it reminds me even more of Rumple letting Bae go.
There’s the vines representing the green vortex that sucked Bae in. There’s his dad’s hand that is red representing not only the Curse that has caused his dad to get the blood of innocent people on his hands, but also the deal that his dad broke despite their handshake. Finally, instead of holding onto his only son, his father would rather hold onto control and capital just like the red hand in the artwork is doing.
@Schmacky wrote:
I’m sorry but I hate when people say that Emma did the same thing to Henry. Especially from her POV. Emma put him up for adoption because she literally could not take care of that child as she was in jail. Once she got out of jail, yes she could have fought to get him back but if he was already placed in a home (and he was as he was adopted when he was 3 weeks old) she felt he had a better chance at life and love than what someone right out of jail could provide.
Emma was found on the side of a highway. That’s not being put up for adoption. That’s not even being cared for at all. Crazy people who don’t want their kids and don’t know how to take them to a hospital or church do that. From her POV she wasn’t just given away. She was abandoned. She was basically left for dead if someone hadn’t found her.
That’s a big difference.
But anyway, I don’t think she was flawed in her thinking per say. Either way, Emma was destined for a crap life. Cursed either way. But in her defense, she didn’t want to talk about it right then. The girl still needed to process everything. I think, at that point, it had been only an hour or something since the curse broke. She wanted to wait for that talk so she could clear and organize her thoughts. I think her talk with Snow was just.. a mix mosh of emotions and thoughts.
I see what you’re saying, and I get that, but in the context of the show Henry was still adopted by the Evil Queen. So even though Emma was trying to give Henry his best start in life, he still ended up in a terrible place.
I don’t think Snow and Charming had much choice because either Emma would be raised by the Evil Queen or someone else, and no one would ever escape the Curse, or worse, the Evil Queen would kill Emma and everyone would still be cursed forever. So I hope Emma comes to realize that later on that there’s no way that they would have been together had they not sent her through the Wardrobe.
I can’t believe how fast this turned into the Pinocchio thing all over again with it being a Bae vs. White Rabbit debate. I remember I was burned that time because I wanted August to be Bae so badly, but that’s another reason I think that Mysterious Man has to be Bae because I think they’re smart enough to not use that trick again and piss everyone off again.
I could definitely be wrong, but the biggest reason that I think it’s Bae is that I don’t think they’d introduce a character like the White Rabbit in the season 2 premiere in modern day NYC. I think the opening spot of the season would be reserved for a character of great importance to the overall mythos of the show like how people are comparing mysterious man to how Desmond was introduced on Lost. I guess the White Rabbit could become important, but we already know how important Bae is to the show and that he’s outside of Storybrooke, and that we’d see him this season, so I think it has to be him.
Anyhow, I found this at TVLine’s website for the explanation about the red hand thing,
One more thing. On the artwork with the red hand and the watch….could be a mash-up. “RED HAND” + “WATCH” yields the name of a campaign called… the “Red hand watch.” Catch this….to draw attention and relief to the plight of child soldiers. DEFINITELY sounds like the Baelfire issue that started Rumple’s path to being the Dark One. Remember the Ogre Wars? Children were being drafted into conflict. Deep thoughts, folks.
We try to be meticulous with the production design, so… yes, there’s stuff in the apartment specific to the character,” says Horowitz. Adds Kitsis: “There’s one thing in there in particular … I’m not going to say what it is…. that has very significant meaning.”
Read More at: http://tvline.com/2012/09/30/once-upon-a-time-season-2-who-is-nyc-mystery-man/#utm_source=copypaste&utm_campaign=referral
For me, that red hand thing is the one thing in particular that has a significant meaning to the Mystery Man’s identity because it sticks right out when the Mystery Man first enters his apartment. Plus, when I first watched the episode, I was immediately struck with the idea that Mystery Man has it in his apartment because it reminds him of his dad letting go of him and breaking their deal.
Of course, it could have a different meaning that is significant to the character whether it be because there’s some kind of symbol on there or secret message, but that seemed like the most personal thing that the character owns. I mean his apartment is just full of a lot of old crap, It’s also very dark looking place, and that artwork is the only thing that gives his apartment a pop of color because everything else looks so faded and old.
Here’s more about the episode. I thought for sure MR-J was going to be seen in this because he was in Vancouver shooting for Once Upon a Time around the time episode 4 was filming. I guess we won’t see him again until episode 6 perhaps. 😥
http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/10/once-upon-time-episode-204-crocodile_1.html
BELLE THREATENS TO LEAVE MR. GOLD IF HE CONTINUES WITH HIS THIRST FOR POWER, AND RUMPLESTILTSKIN ATTEMPTS TO SAVE HIS WIFE FROM A BAND OF CUTTHROAT PIRATES, ON ABC’S “ONCE UPON A TIME”
“The Crocodile” – Belle’s disgust over Mr. Gold’s continuing thirst for power comes to a head, and she threatens to leave him if he can’t change his evil ways; the dwarves pick up their axes and try to find fairy dust in the Storybrooke mine; and a reunion with an old acquaintance could prove to be Belle’s undoing. Meanwhile, back in the fairytale land that was, Rumplestiltskin attempts to save his wife, Milah, from being kidnapped by a band of cutthroat pirates, on “Once Upon a Time,” SUNDAY, OCTOBER 21 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.
“Once Upon a Time” stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry Mills, Meghan Ory as Red Riding Hood/Ruby, and Robert Carlyle as Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold.
Guest starring are Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, Barbara Hershey as Cora, Colin O’Donoghue as Killian Jones, David-Paul Grove as Doc, Faustino Di Bauda as Sleepy, Jeffrey Kaiser as Dopey, Michael Coleman as Happy, Mig Macario as Bashful, Sebastian Wilkinson as young Baelfire, Rachel Shelley as Milah, Rondel Reynoldson as village woman, Eric Keenleyside as Moe/Sir Maurice, Christopher Gauthier as William, Chelsea Turner as tavern waitress and Ryan Hesp as quartermaster.
“The Crocodile” was written by David H. Goodman & Robert Hull and directed by David Solomon.
Hooray to seeing a Baby Baelfire though! If Mystery Man is Bae, he’ll be the only character we’ve seen so far as a baby, as a young teenager, and as an adult. Not even Emma has had that happen quite yet.
@Dorothy wrote:
Tricky question.
Well, you would have to look at it from Emma’s perspective. She’s been alone for all her life without parents, and to find out that her parents were actually really heroic people who gave her up is probably like a punch in the stomach to her. Maybe throughout the years she’d been bracing herself to find out that her parents may not have been the best types of people to live with and she might have been better off without them. It probably doesn’t matter to Emma, because like she said, all it matters to her is that they gave her away. Which to her probably means “They didn’t want me.”
You can’t really wipe away 28 years of hurt feelings with a hug.
Yes, I agree that she was flawed in her thinking, but it’s understandable at that time because she was so overcome with emotion.
Hopefully, later on, she’ll realize that she did the same thing to Henry. Plus, I think there was zero chance of them staying together as a family had the Charmings not sent Emma to this world in the wardrobe. Either Regina would have killed baby Emma because of the threat that she could cause later on or raised baby Emma as her own. So I hope that she realizes that later on.
Right now I’ll cut her a break though because she wasn’t thinking clearly, but if she continues to mope all season about it, then I hope the other characters point out how flawed she sounds.
@hjbau wrote:
I think it is the fact that there is fire on the end of that bow and arrow.
I’m sure that there’s flaws in this particular theory, but I think it’s interesting that in “Desperate Souls” where we first see Baelfire for the first time, there’s two big notable fires caused by his father. Then in this episode where we possibly see adult!Bae for the first time, two times fire is used in the episode as protection from a creature that his father unleashed.
I was trying to think of where fire was used before that stuck out, and the only other time I remember it was in “7:15 A.M.” when Snow threatened to burn down King George’s castle. Unfortunately I can’t really find a connection to Bae in that episode except August says that a storm is brewing, and in “Broken”, there’s a storm happening when maybe!Bae receives the mysterious postcard.
@Lil’Red wrote:
Thanks for that link, slurpeez. I had just started making my own list this morning and that filled in a lot of things I had questions about.
It didn’t cover the one area I’m most interested in, and I can’t find it anywhere. The poster of the red fist, what appears to be a tudor rose on the wrist, surrounded by a wreath.
Still searching for that online.
In the chat last night, I think that was the thing that a few people thought was a rune. I’m not sure though because that was around 1:00 here, and my brain wasn’t working that well at that time.
I love either idea though because I believe that it’s a Tudor rose that is a tattoo on Emma’s wrist.
There is a landscape poster over his bed – can’t read the script across the poster but there are mountains and desert visible. Honestly, reminds me of a picture I took in New Mexico awhile back.
Good catch, I didn’t even notice it on the hundreds of times I’ve already watched the opening. Maybe Emma and Bae had a dream to escape out west which is why she ended up in Phoenix.
He had three *journals* stacked on his desk, all the same. With the dream catcher in the same shot, just behind, it seems to me he may keep dream journals. From what I remember from past psych classes, this is a way of dealing with incredibly traumatic events.
Yes, I just wanted to give him big hug. He still seems to have the worst luck even in this world, and it makes sense that he’d still have nightmares over his father letting him go through the vortex alone.
I guess he’s doing okay for himself though in his business type of job, but compared to his father who has a big house, Cadillac, and even a true love, he seemed that Bae keeps paying some kind of karmic price for things that his father did. Speaking of his dad, on my last rewatch in trying to see the poster above his bed, I noticed his tie. Does Rumple have any ties like that? I know that the backpack and the way that he set it down tied he and Henry together, but I was wondering if perhaps the suit and/or the tie may been a way of connecting Rumple and Bae.
@SwanQueenOncer wrote:
I think Regina might surprise us. Having watched “Broken” (spoilers ahead so beware) I think Regina is going to do as Henry has asked and find Emma and Snow. It’s the only way she is going to be able to see Henry again, to make him believe her when she says she loves him.
I don’t think she will necessarily turn good, she is just too delicious as an evil character for that, but I think there will be elements of her that will be redeemed. She will work against Rumple and for the good guys, but never actually be a good guy. Everything she will do will stem from her love of Henry.I guess I’m the opposite because I feel like while Regina might be torn as to whether to help because she wants Henry back, I think when push comes to shove she’ll still choose to not really help bring back Emma and Snow. Sure she’ll act like she’s helping and she might help a little bit, and it might even fool Henry at least for a short time. However, I think if she had a choice between just leaving them there forever if Henry never found out, or helping them, I think she’d still choose the former. So I’m not expecting her to really put a lot of effort into helping them.
I know there was some progress from her in “A Land Without Magic”, but I think that was because Henry’s life is on the line. If it’s just his feelings towards her, I think she’s still deluded enough to think that he’ll come around especially without Emma and Snow around.
We’ll see though I guess.
@slurpeez108 wrote:
Yes, there’s more to Regina’s story with Jefferson than meets the eye. In the promo for upcoming episodes, there is a brief clip of Regina meeting Rumpel, and Jefferson is there. I think that could be when she was starting to learn magic for the first time in FTL. Also, I think she may have been playing dumb about Jefferson, because he knows a lot about magic and realm-jumping, and Regina doesn’t want to give away “state secrets” to Emma or the Charmings. She doesn’t want them to acquire magic, and she said it right before she found out Emma already has it. Also, Regina must have been surprised that Emma had met Jefferson and was trying to cover up her lack of knowledge about what happened in 1×17; Regina could be “saving face” so as not to appear vulnerable. Her default setting for 28 years has been one of total control and playing this pretense when Emma and Henry tried to pin the blame on her for events in S1.
Yes, I think she was just lying. There have been plenty of other times where it’s been debated whether Regina was actually lying, and most likely she was. Like in “Fruit of the Poisonous Tree”, there was a lot of debate on whether or not Regina actually had feelings for the Genie or was just acting like she did especially at the end of the episode, so I think Regina is just really good at lying except perhaps to Mr. Gold because he knows her too well and isn’t willing to give her any benefit of the doubt.
That was a very odd moment in the episode!!: I think Regina has a stronger connection to Jefferson, and we will eventually see it: and she does not want Emma to know about it and use it against her…i guess only time will tell!!!
I agree though that part, and a few other parts came across as odd instead of the episode flowing properly. So it wasn’t a perfect episode, but it was streets ahead of quite a few season one episodes for me.
I think that Regina was lying. She never knew about what happened in “Hat Trick.” And I also think that Emma made a working hat in that episode, but Regina doesn’t know that.
Yes, I’m not sure if they’ll get back via Emma’s Hat. I don’t believe so because I think they’re going to have to find another way back besides a hat, but I think that Emma’s Hat will be important later on.
