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@Surayya wrote:

I’m thinking since no-one will see it coming & with so many star wars themes coming up- it’s to do with Henry’s future- be it good or bad…. Maybe it goes along the lines of ‘if events take course A) Henry goes all Darth Vader on EF’s butt- if they go course B) He goes all Jedi type thing- this could easily hold true for it being about Emma as well.

After all who would suspect Henry (or Emma) could turn Dark- It happened to Anakin 😉
It could come down to either something Rumple does or doesn’t do, Oh- or maybe it comes down to Henry learning magic or not (much like Anakin learning to use the ‘Force’ = him becoming Darth Vader – lol I almost typed Dark One then lol 😳 ) – there is a star wars parallel if there ever was one for SB 😉

This is an excellent point because K&H love Star Wars so much. Plus, I think the influence of Star Wars is so wide reaching that it’s reached this level like the fairy tales and other classic stories that OUaT has borrowed from that it’s not surprising that OUaT would eventually borrow elements from Star Wars. Of course, Star Wars was heavily influenced by a hodge podge of material like OUaT too, so they’re also both borrowing from the same original sources, which makes sense in these kind of hero’s journeys stories.

However, I think the prophecy is about how Henry will turn bad given all the spoilers talking about how chilling the last 30 seconds are and how some of the reviews have mentioned that something ominous happens concerning Henry. Emma is already cast in the role of the Savior, so I don’t think they would have her double as both. Plus, as the Savior, it would be more dramatic if there’s some kind of prophecy where she’s the one that must defeat this big bad who turns out to be her own son.

So I think in this case Henry = Anakin in that there’s potential for him to go to the Dark Side in the future, but instead of it being Henry that hears the prophecy like how Anakin sees Padme’s death which he inadvertently caused by trying to prevent it, it will be Rumple that sees/hears this glimpse of the future.

We have seen him reject what Regina does with magic in “We Are Both”, but we also see later on in the season that he actually is very fascinated by magic when Regina isn’t using it directly against someone for her evil purposes. I think that was to introduce a slippery slope that could happen with Henry since I don’t think he would outright reject magic like his father Neal would, and he could be in a position like his Grandfatherstiltskin was when he became the Dark One, where he thinks that by learning magic he could help people, not realizing that magic always comes with a price and that his good intentions could lead him down the wrong path like it did for Grandpastiltskin.

Plus, I think it fits in with the idea of nurture vs. nature that we’ve seen especially in the last episode and now in “Manhattan”. If he had been raised by Neal and Emma, who I would assume would have cleaned up their lives, although one never knows if they would have actually been able to, maybe he wouldn’t have taken this path. Not that I want to open up the can of adoption parents vs. biological parents, but I do think that it is something they’ll have viewers ponder in the future.

The only problem is that I think due to Jared Gilmore’s age that if we do see this “evil” Henry story line, I think he’s too young to pull it off. I don’t think they would dare to recast the actor either because I think the show would lose it’s heart, and many fans would hate the idea. So I think that we’ll see an older evil Henry either through glimpses of the future or by doing more with the time travel angle. If Bae isn’t Peter Pan, then we’ve already seen that Henry’s father has time traveled. So maybe Henry tries to stop something from happening thinking he’s saving everyone and gets caught up in time traveling, but eventually turns down this dark path. We already have the magic beans that may be able to transport people through time if Bae isn’t Peter, so there’s already a device in Storybrooke that Henry could use to do this.

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@Phee wrote:

From the article slurpeez linked to…

One of the best things about the episode is the developing relationship between Henry and Gold. It is the very lovely nature of their relationship, however, that haunts the end of the episode, however, and I anticipate that it will lead to much speculation on the Internet come Sunday night.

The loveliness of their relationship haunts the end of the episode. That sounds all types of ominous. Can’t wait to see what greater role Henry is gonna play in this mess.

Yes, I have a bad feeling that the prophecy or at least one of the prophecies is about Henry becoming the Dark One or worse than the Dark One, being killed by the Dark One, or killing the Dark One. I’m guessing that it’s one of the first two though since I don’t think it would be ominous that Henry had to kill the Dark One. Sad yes, but definitely not ominous, imo.

Of course, I don’t think either thing will come true, or maybe it will but not in the way everyone thinks. For instance, Henry did die already in a way, so maybe the Prophecy has come to pass in a way because even though Regina was the one that poisoned the apple tart, if it hadn’t been for the Curse and her trying to find a way to get rid of Emma without breaking the Curse due to Rumple’s clause, she wouldn’t have made the apple tart.

We learn how Rumple got his gift of prophecy,

Looks like the theory of him stealing the Seer’s power might come true after all.[/quote]

Yes, I forgot to write this, but someone caught that Rumple is wearing the same clothes that he was wearing when he lost Baelfire in the scene with him and the now older Seer, where it looks like he’s doing something bad to her. I’m guessing that the theories about him killing her are true, but I don’t think he wanted her powers. I think he just got angry because whatever she told him long ago set off the chain of events that lead to him losing his son, and he lashes out at her like he tried lashing out at the Blue Fairy and how he lashed out Milah.

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@slurpeez108 wrote:

Also, regarding the Captain Hook spoiler, I think he’s going to be screwed over by Cora and Regina, who don’t want Rumple dead, but rather, want to control the Dark One with his dagger. Captain Hook, however, can use any weapon of choice to kill Rumple outside of SB, where there is no magic and he’s not bound by the dagger. He could kill Rumple and thus avoid becoming the next dark one. So, I think Hook could simply get in his enchanted ship, which is now made invisible thanks to Cora’s magic and is the fastest boat according to Eddy and Adam in the most recent official audio podcast, and sail for NYC, where Rumple is still trying to get through to Baelfire.

Maybe that’s why Rumple and Hook haven’t been seen, well not that I’ve seen, in the spoiler pictures that have come out for the episodes after “Manhattan”. I know Rumple is supposed to help Belle get her memory back and there’s suppose to be a big Rumbelle episode later on this season, maybe the last episode or next to last episode of the season I’m guessing, but maybe something happens between Hook and Rumple in NYC which is why I haven’t seen them around Storybrooke.

It would be interesting because while Rumple may have magical power, it might actually be safer to stay out of Storybrooke if Cora and Regina did get their hands on the Dagger because they couldn’t be able to control him outside of Storybrooke. Then, Hook and Rumple would have to fight each other without Rumple having magic, but this time Rumple wouldn’t be scared of his son dying without a parent. Also, he has plenty of motivation now to really go after Hook even without magic. I don’t know how the Charmings + Nealfire could fight off Regina and Cora without Rumple’s help, but maybe since Emma can’t be killed by Cora and has magic of her own, maybe they could fight Regina and Cora without Rumple being around.

There’s also the Blue Fairy as the wild card. Obviously, I think she’d still help the Charmings + Neal, whether because she’s on their side or because it’s way too early to switch sides if they do go that route sometime later, but with her wand back + Emma’s magic, maybe the Charmings + Neal have Rumple leave town for his safety and their safety.

Anyhow, if that did happen, I think he’d defeat Hook, but it would be really close. I don’t think Hook would die, but he wouldn’t necessarily come back to Storybrooke, or he would, but viewers wouldn’t be quite sure or not. They could make it a cliffhanger type of thing at the end of the season with Hook leaving but being out there as a threat for next season since they plan on going to Neverland at some point, I believe.

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@Mich7 wrote:

😆 I just posted that theory on another thread …I actually think it was to your post. Twilight Zone moment.

But yeah if BF is evil or really a dark fairy then yeah I think that is really a theory that could pan out.

lol, I just read that. (Insert Twilight Zone music)

Yes, I love the idea that while trying to look all good and helpful by returning August back to his boyhood form, it’s because she doesn’t want him to tell anyone what she’s been doing and what other secrets she might have.

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@Mich7 wrote:

lol is there a 3rd choice.

Yeah…I get it…this is supposed to be their happy ending…but it still feels sad. I guess maybe that gives a little hope though…like someone said a few posts back this season has a lot to do with not being able to go back and live in the past. That doesn’t give me much hope for Swanfire…but if Pinocchio can get a second chance to live his life again maybe Emma and Neal can find each other again. A slim hope but it’s something.

Well some people are theorizing now that maybe the BF has a hidden agenda for doing this to August because he might know too much. If they do it that way and leave open the door for someone to return August to his correct age, then I think it could be a really interesting idea.

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@RumplesGirl wrote:

The BF offers SW something for her mom?! WHAT? Oh Blue, you’re scheming goes even deeper than I thought!

I know! She really hasn’t been around at all this season and suddenly we read about some kind of surprise about a big evil, and then in the very next episode, the BF’s offering Snow an unconventional enchantment to save her mother. It’s very, very, very strange.

I guess if Cora is the reason why Snow’s mother is dying, then I guess it sort of makes sense that the Blue Fairy could step in since Eva isn’t dying of natural causes. I don’t know how the BF would know that though, and if she did why wouldn’t she expose Cora in the process. On the other hand, if Eva was dying of some kind of natural cause, then it seems strange that the BF would step in there when she wouldn’t even step in besides with Bae to stop the kids from being killed in the Ogre Wars.

Also, I hope I’m wording this properly, but if it were a natural death, I don’t know why she’d step in just to save one person unless she did have some kind of agenda. While it’s sad that a young Snow might lose her mom, why haven’t we seen her step in more often in FTL, and if she doesn’t have the power to help everyone, why does it seem like she’s picking and choosing since like others have pointed out she didn’t help Regina out of her situation with her abusive mom, and she didn’t do anything to stop Regina from enacting the Curse.

Sonequa Martin-Green as Tamara.

Now on the SwanFire front, I wonder if Neal makes up a lie about having a girlfriend/significant other because he sees himself as unworthy in Emma’s eyes, and that Tamara is from FTL too somehow. (Although I guess she could be both, but I’m thinking it’s only the latter.) Or Emma just assumes that there’s something there when there really isn’t. The more I think about it no matter how understanding a significant other might be, I don’t think that Neal would have her come to Storybrooke if she was just a regular outsider. It would be too dangerous for both Storybrooke residents no matter how much Neal might trust her and for Tamara if she were just a regular person who didn’t have any kind of skill and/or knowledge about how their world works.

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@slurpeez108 wrote:

I like the idea that this is the ONLY way to save August and that it’s specific to him. A lot of people on tumblr are freaking out that now it can be done to any and all of the characters, but let’s keep in mind that this is probably August’s wish. Baelfire and/or Emma won’t take this same option. I think it’s actually a very intriguing plot development which raises all sorts of questions like, if you could start your life all over again, would you? Sure, Emma and Bae have had a lot of pain to deal with, but they also found love with each other and had Henry. There are lots of very interesting thoughts that come from this.

Yes, I’m trying to keep an open mind about it. It does seem like they might have to walk a very line between being too cheesy, and they also have to do it in a way that makes sense for August’s story since obviously they’re not going to have a redo with other characters. (Well possibly at the end of the series with a “it was all a dream” ending or having Emma get to relive her life again from a baby; although, I can’t really see either of those things happening.)

If Eion Bailey wanted out or if there are any truth to those rumors, I think this is better than just killing him off because I think that would be too easy. Plus, this does leave the door open that he could return in more than just flashbacks because if they can make the beanstalk magically grow in less than 100 years, I’m sure they could have something happen to him to cause him to rapidly age. I doubt this will happen because it does seem really dramatic that they’re going so far as to actually deage Pinocchio, but at least there’s a possibility.

I also like it because it opens the door again to what they introduced at the beginning of the season with finding out that Rumple could deage someone. This season has definitely been about regrets and for some characters trying to get back to something that doesn’t exist anymore whether that’s Fairy Tale Land, a past relationship being the way it was before, bringing someone back from the dead, or even just trying to keep Storybrooke the way it was before. I agree that as we see happening with Charming and a few of the other characters wanting to go back to FTL, we’ll see more and more characters wanting to go back to how things used to be. Some won’t ultimately decide to relive their lives or go back to some other past land that they used to live in like Emma and Neal I imagine, but for others, I think there’s going to be a lot of temptations for these characters to be able to resist.

For instance, I have a theory that Grumpy will steal Hook’s ship to try to go back to FTL, or maybe he’ll join Hook if Hook tempts him with the offer to take him back to FTL. He could get desperate enough, and he has been associated with the ocean and ships.

With Rumple, while it seems like he would learn his lesson not to do use magic on Nealfire especially after finding out who Nealfire really is, I could see him being very tempted if his son keeps blocking him out, and he’s not able to be a part of his son’s life. It would be the worst decision for him to make, but he’s made a lot of bad decisions that Neal has already paid the price for, so this could just be another one of those.

Likewise Regina could be in a similar situation with Henry, if she feels like she really has lost for him good depending on how this season goes. I think she will step in at the last minute and save him or someone that he cares about from Cora, but Regina being Regina, it might not be enough that he has relationship with her, but he still lives with the Charmings. If Neal and Emma got close again or it appeared that they were in Regina’s eyes, she might feel she would lose Henry for good if his birth parents reunited, so that could cause her to do something rash to want to go back to what she use to have with Henry.

There’s definitely a lot of story lines that this could open up now, so I am trying to be open minded even if it doesn’t sound like such a great idea.

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@Hooks Spyglass wrote:

Bae leaving Did destroy the Enchanted forest . It set off a chain reaction . Fate vsDestiny?

Oooh, I love this idea even more because in stories like these when the person tries to run from his/her destiny, it usually happens because that person tried to escape their destiny, e.g., Oedipus, so perhaps if he/she didn’t do anything whatever bad thing that is supposed to happen wouldn’t have happened.

True! My head is spinning outta control with all this stuff right now. Feel like I’m trippin’ on fairy dust. *headdesk*

Yes, I just want Sunday to be here already, so I can stop thinking about all these possibilities. There will be a million more new questions and theories I’ll have after “Manhattan”, but all of these spoilers are so vague that it’s very frustrating to even theorize because I don’t even know if I’m theorizing about the right character or not.

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@SpinningGold wrote:

So getting further with my theory, that would make the Trojan wars the ogre wars, and we all know who lost there…. Certain Trojan horse was brought in and everything went a bit wrong. A lost little child could have been taken in by the pittying spinsters.

Seeing the fairies have a way of acting like a bunch of spoilt Greek Godesses… Have they started it by quibbling over an apple, who was supposed to be “for the fairest of them all”?

WOW… gone full circle there… how did that happen? 😆 Maybe I AM on to something here…. Ok where is that book Greek mythology 1.01 when I need it…

lol, I love your theory though about the Spinsters being the three Fates. They’ve already set brought in Greek mythology already with King Midas in the first season, and it fits with how Rumple learned to become a spinner since that’s usually associated with women.

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@RumplesGirl wrote:

I’m trying so hard to not hate this lady we know almost nothing about. lol.
Well on the SwanFire front: I think having Henry be such a major character means they are going to try to keep SwanFire together. No moral judgement here, but on a show that is trying to be “family friendly” I think they happily ever after for Henry is to have his parents together, in FTL, having adventures.

lol, I know what you mean. I already someone on Tumblr write a funny message with a .gif about the whole situation using the rhymes with witch word, and I thought about liking and forwarding it because right now most everyone is in panic mode not knowing what to expect especially me. So even though I don’t know Tamara, I sort of want to hate her, lol, but I can’t because she could be a really awesome character, and I don’t want to dislike her even if they do make her an obstacle to SwanFire. I’m sure our ship will happen eventually, but I just didn’t want them to go the love triangle route since I thought they were going to do that with August, then Hook, and now maybe Tamara because they have so many other problems that a love triangle seemed like overkill. Plus, the biggest triangle will always be between Emma and Regina over Henry, so any romantic love triangle involving any of the main characters seems superfluous too because it will never top the non-romantic triangle that will probably go on until the very last episode of the show.

I think the most precious information here is the “maybe it all needed to happen this way”. Maybe Emma will, like us, believe that “Tamara” is Neal’s girlfriend and she’ll be jealous, awakening her feelings for Neal.
But who is “Tamara” ? A “normal” person, or a FTL character ? Well, I have an idea :
If Neal is Baelfire AND Peter Pan, then “Tamara” could be Tinkerbell. Like Phee said, the Blue Fairy could have sent her to spy on Neal, and since she’s a fairy, it would be logical that she’d send another fairy to fulfill that mission. Moreover, the casting call for Tamara said : “she won’t stop until she gets what she wants”, and remember that Tinkerbell doesn’t stop until she gets Peter Pan’s affection. And it would add a nice parallel between Emma and Neal : “Tamara” would be Neal’s guardian angel just like August is Emma’s guardian angel.

I love you!!! Thank you for giving me something to believe in that makes a lot of sense. As SwanFire shippers, we know that she’s not over Neal otherwise she would have got rid of the yellow Bug for sure. The key chain I guess she could have kept; although, it is a pretty big thing that she modified it into a necklace, but to keep the yellow Bug for so long when we know she had the money for a better car and a car that wouldn’t be so conspicuous in her previous line of work, is proof that she still has feelings for Neal. However, I’m sure she’s convinced herself that she’s over Neal, so maybe if it’s just a misunderstanding situation with Tamara that will make her realize she’s not. While that might be heartbreaking in this episode, since they have so many other things to deal with first before a romantic relationship is even possible again for them, it’s actually a good sign for SwanFire, if we see definite proof that Emma is still not over Neal. (I hate angst about SwanFire so freaking much though. 😥 )

This could also be great for SwanFire in the long run because even if Neal is free right now, I’m sure he thinks that there’s no chance that Emma would ever want to reunite with him at this point. If he notices that she’s jealous over Tamara, then hopefully that will help him build up self confidence to pursue Emma knowing that she actually is still interested in him. Plus, I’m sure Henry will come to realize that Emma still has feelings for Neal maybe with his grandparents help, so maybe he’ll help push Neal along in the right direction too since I’m sure it will take awhile for Neal to build up the courage to do so.

I wish there was an smiley that accurately showed what we are all experiencing right now.

I think the Smiley would be pulling out its hair and staring at a clock.

PERFECT.

lol, so true.

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