[arkham258]

Favorite moments:
1. Henry comparing Emma to Regina. I think Emma really deserved that and I’m glad he wasn’t quick to forgive her. I was really frustrated by Emma this episode. She lied to Mr. Gold. She lied to Henry. Ah! Drove me nuts! It always seems like a Herculean effort for Emma to do what’s right or what’s smart. She drives me nuts sometimes. Moments like that remind me that Emma is still a little girl in a grown up’s body.
2. It was cool seeing all the villains together, though I still have hope that Regina hasn’t totally gone evil again. It seems like that’s what the writers want us to think. I smell a swerve.
3. Neal was really good this episode. He three minute conversation with Mr. Gold/Rumpel was really well done
4. The seer was very, very cool. I liked that character a lot. I wasn’t actually creeped out by her at all like some viewers were.
5. Mr. Gold’s moments with Henry were well done. It was nice to see them get along, especially with the surprising reveal of what Rumpel said when the seer told him about the boy.

Least Favorite:
1. The reveal of what’s in the box, while it tied things together nicely, was kind of stupid. Why couldn’t August just tell him that he knew he was Bailfire without all the silly look what’s in the box drama. That’s one of the things that can be frustrating about TV shows, characters who don’t act like normal human beings.
2. Not so much a flaw of the episode, but just a general hate for Rumpel’s former wife. She is such a…..well, never mind. I’m not saying he should have killed her…but I understand (kind of quoting an old Chris Rock joke here)

[arkham258]

I think he could end up being a regular if his schedule allows it. I know the creators of the show are Jorge Garcia fans. I always enjoy whatever roles he’s in because he typically gets type casted as these goofy, but lovable characters and he plays them so well. He’s been pretty much the same guy in Lost, Once Upon a Time, and Alcatraz

[arkham258]

@Elle wrote:

In Anton’s defense, his actions pale in comparison to Regina’s actions. Also, we haven’t see anyone die because of him–he just seemed to be throwing things and missing badly. 🙂

Regina on the otherhand has killed easily. She has tortured. She has locked people up. The list of her crimes is much longer than Anton’s.

Regina has to be given a chance

Last I checked, Emma was open to giving Regina a chance. She invited the woman to dinner. She refused to believe that Regina murdered Archie until (sadly) she saw Pongo’s memories. Henry himself is trying with Regina–even after she abused him, he still is trying for her.

If Regina feels the world is against her and will never forgive her, then she has no real reason to change. What’s the point?

This is basically saying that if no one is willing to forgive Regina for what she has done, she shouldn’t try to change. Shouldn’t she try to change because it is the right thing? Isn’t she trying to become a better person for Henry?

This is how Cora has tried to corrupt Regina again, to convince her that everyone will never accept or forgive her. Even Mr. Gold has tried to manipulate Regina into doing what he wants by telling her that there is no point in her changing because they’ll never accept her.

Yes, Rumpelstiltskin and Cora have manipulated and Regina. But Regina had gotten rid of her mother, and Rumpelstiltskin never forced her to do anything. He never forced her to go back to a marriage that she knew she would hate. He never forced her to try to kill Snow White and keep The Huntsman prisoner. That was all Regina.

And Snow’s comment was unnecessary, it’s like she’s poking the bear, which struck me as not just mean, but dumb as well.

I do agree with that. Snow White’s comment was not smart. But on the otherhand, she wasn’t cruel or mean to Regina. Seeing as how this is the woman that tried to kill her numerous times, she was actually civil to her.

Well my point with Anton was that he was clearly trying to kill people. He literally tried to squish Charming and would have succeeded if Snow didn’t intervene. I mean he was for all intents and purposes a murderer, even if he didn’t succeed at his attempt.

I don’t really like the use of the word abused with Regina. I don’t think she has ever abused him in any way. That word just conjures up things I think most people are uncomfortable with and I don’t think Regina has ever done any of those things to Henry. You’re probably referring to her making Henry think he was nuts, but Regina was trying to make EVERYONE believe that the Enchanted Forest never existed. Henry just happened to be getting too close to the truth.

I know Emma has given Regina a chance, but you indicated that people were being nicer to Regina than she deserves, which says to me that you don’t think people actually should give her a chance. Treating her like garbage is not how you give someone a chance.

I don’t hold Regina responsible for a lot of the stuff Rumpel has gotten her to do. He’s always been much older and wiser than her, and knew exactly how to manipulate the young woman that she was, and we’ve seen him do that with many other characters. His whole scheme with Frankenstein was one big manipulation. When you consider the damage Cora had already done in brainwashing Regina even before Rumpel came into the picture, it’s not surprising some of the bad decisions Regina has made.

I’m not so much excusing Regina’s actions, but pointing out that a lot of people would have gone down the path she did considering the circumstances and the corrupting influences of both Rumpel and Cora. If a kid has two parents who are criminals, what’s the likelihood that the kid won’t be? Rumpel and Cora have been like two evil parental figures in her life, and by the time Cora was out of the picture for Regina, she was already too far gone down her dark path that both Cora and Rumpel had set her on. I’ve seen Regina do terrible things, but it all goes back to Cora and Rumpel, who I’d argue are MORE responsible for much of what Regina has done in her life than she is. The two of them have spent a LOT of time and effort corrupting what was once a perfectly good and decent human being in Regina.

I do agree with you that Regina should want to change because it’s the right thing, but even still, if people convince her that she CAN’T change, then she’ll stop trying. That moment two or three weeks ago when Emma told Regina that they know what she is and what she’ll always be was a critical moment and I’m kind of hoping that those words don’t keep bouncing around Regina’s head. I think after learning that Regina was framed Emma realized what a big mistake she made saying those words to Regina. There was a line she said to Henry that indicated that when he told her they should find Regina and tell her they know she’s innocent.

I feel like your view of Regina may be a bit one sided, but I’m biased because she’s my favorite character. So I can’t say that either one or us is right or wrong. It may not matter anymore if Regina has gone dark again, given what we saw this episode. I’m not entirely convinced she’s evil again though. Nothing is at it seems when’s Kora’s around. Any time I see Regina now I wonder if I’m not really looking at Cora. Plus, I wonder if Regina isn’t playing Cora in some way. We’ll see

[arkham258]

@LilaMae wrote:

@Arkham258 wrote:

Least Favorite

I was a bit irritated by Snow telling Regina that what Emma does with Henry is none of her business. Regina was his legal guardian for most of his young life. I’m continually amazed by how coldly Regina gets treated by people on this show. It would be hard to blame her if she went bad again, which this episode makes it seem like she possibly has. That was such a rude, and insensitive thing for Snow to say. It almost struck me as out of character.

I’m sorry, but I’m always astonished when people say things like this. I could write out a massive list of all the evil things Regina has done, but everyone knows it already.

Regina is an abuser (to put it mildly). In order to gain redemption, she needs to take responsibility for what she has done, and make lasting change. She needs to beg forgiveness from those she has wronged. She needs to earn their respect and their trust. That is a process that takes years. She doesn’t get to “change” for 2 weeks and then have everyone be her besties. She needs to make the effort, no one else does. If Regina goes bad (looks like she has), the only person responsible is her. Frankly, I think everyone has been much kinder to her than she deserves.

I’m sure if the people of Storybrooke thought that way we’d have seen Tiny killed at the end of the episode. People don’t change if you don’t give them a chance, and look how giving Tiny a chance after everything he did worked out for them. Regina has done a lot, but nothing good ever comes from hanging on to the past and there seems to be a theme on the show that Storybrooke is a place for new beginnings. And like I said, Regina has to be given a chance. If Regina feels the world is against her and will never forgive her, then she has no real reason to change. What’s the point? If they’re serious about giving her a chance they need to stop treating her like she’s still the evil queen. Otherwise, you just convince her that that is all she can ever be so she might as well just play the role that everybody expects her too. This is how Cora has tried to corrupt Regina again, to convince her that everyone will never accept or forgive her. Even Mr. Gold has tried to manipulate Regina into doing what he wants by telling her that there is no point in her changing because they’ll never accept her.

Until Belle came along, that was Rumpel’s way of looking at life. He became convinced that he couldn’t be anything other than an unlovable monster so he kept on playing that role. Regina has had years of being brainwashed by her mother, and to some extent Rumpel into believing that she HAD to be the evil queen. There’s a chance now for people to show her that she doesn’t have to be that person. Now I would certainly like to see Regina apologize or own up to the things she has done at some point, but she’s not ready for that yet, and she never will be if the people of Storybrooke keep bearing their claws at her.

I may be somewhat biased though. I love redemption story arcs. My favorite Buffy characters are Faith and Angel, and anyone familiar with that universe knows the great redemptive arcs they’ve been on. There’s also a great character on Fringe who has a redemption arc that lasts the whole series.

And Snow’s comment was unnecessary, it’s like she’s poking the bear, which struck me as not just mean, but dumb as well. I mean does she WANT to make Regina go bad again and vaporize the town, because comments like that certainly aren’t helping things. Everyone knows how Regina feels about Henry, regardless of what else she’s done. You can’t make a comment like the one Snow made and not expect Regina to be upset. It was a really dumb moment for Snow that made me shake my head in disbelief. In fact, I’m pretty sure when it was just David watching Henry, he had sense enough to keep Regina informed of whatever was going on with the kid and he seemed to have successfully maintained a peaceful relationship with Regina.

[arkham258]

Favorite Moments
David and Mr. Gold having that nice moment where they briefly spoke to each other, not as enemies, but as two men who care about family. I like how David caught Mr. Gold off guard when it became clear that he wasn’t trying to fight with him, just making a sincere request as one family man to another.

Tiny finding his new “brothers”

The whole town forgiving Tiny and welcoming him. In that moment, I felt like I wanted to live in Storybrooke. The sense of community and compassion was really touching.

The scenes between Jorge Garcia and Abraham Benrubi were great. These are two naturally likable character actors and I enjoyed seeing them together.

Least Favorite

I was a bit irritated by Snow telling Regina that what Emma does with Henry is none of her business. Regina was his legal guardian for most of his young life. I’m continually amazed by how coldly Regina gets treated by people on this show. It would be hard to blame her if she went bad again, which this episode makes it seem like she possibly has. That was such a rude, and insensitive thing for Snow to say. It almost struck me as out of character.

[arkham258]

@Gaultheria wrote:

Always happy to meet another Green Lantern fan!

(Edited to add: I probably should have said “another OUAT fan”, but I’ve been a GL fan for a loooong time, so that’s one of my “One of us! One of us!” key phrases.)

You probably know a lot more about Green Lantern than me. I’m more familiar with the Green Lantern characters from the various cartoons and animated movies I’ve seen them in. I’m kind of a DC fan in general, especially Batman, but I do think Green Lantern is very cool and the animated series has really become a must see show for me. Hal and Kilowog are a lot of fun in that buddy cop way, and I’m thoroughly invested in the Aya/Razor story.

@EvilQueen wrote:

Hi Arkham258 and welcome!
I can tell you there is a lot of us here who agree that Lana is stunning!

That’s good to know. It’s funny, as beautiful as Lana is, I hated Regina early in the series. Once I got her back story though, I felt so sorry for her and I felt as if fate had conspired against her to turn this sweet young woman into an evil person that she never wanted to be. It’s like she had evil parental figures in Cora and Rumplestiltskin pushing her to the dark side.

@Mich7 wrote:

Welcome to the boards! 😀

Thanks! Glad to be here!

[arkham258]

Two things I liked about this episode:

I think we may have seen plenty of Kora…and Regina as well. I may be completely wrong but I love the idea that only some of Regina’s scenes were her and not others. I think the scene at the apartment was definitely Regina, but I’m not so sure about her other appearances. It’s fun to think that maybe the writers were messing with us in this episode, though again, I’m probably wrong.

I also liked seeing Tiny with the dwarves at the end. He basically found new “brothers” to replace the ones that he lost, and they are much nicer. Jorge Garcia is a joy to watch. He always plays characters that are very endearing and easy to love. I’ve seen him in Alcatraz, Lost, and Once Upon a Time and he always plays a character that I feel I would want to be friends with.

I didn’t quite get the line about Charming not having his name in the axe because he wasn’t a dwarf. Neither is Tiny.

I like the cross promotion in this episode. Right after we see the reveal of Jack, we see a commercial for the new movie about Jack, which looks good by the way. Bryan Singer is a good director.

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