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betsypaige24

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Viewing 10 posts - 511 through 520 (of 655 total)
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  • December 31, 2013 at 6:36 pm in reply to: Adam Answers Twitter Q’s! #234611
    betsypaige24
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    But what I meant was, Belle’s dialogue to Rumple in this scene indicates that she already knows something about who he is memorializing. “How old was he?” suggests to me that she knows the person is a male child. Why would she just make this assumption? And the conversation during “Skin Deep” comes across as if this is the first time she’s brought up the topic of a child. We don’t know what point Belle switched to the blue dress- I would think this scene takes place *after* “Lacey.” “Lacey” is immediately after she starts working for Rumple- the first couple days. I didn’t get the impression that the candle lighting conversation took place *quite* that early. She might have switched to the blue dress just after the events of “Lacey”- that’s a story we haven’t been told.

    ‘

    I think she saw the shawl/clothing (if that actually was Bae’s shawl, and it looks like a different material, then that is another continuity issue since Belle saw that for the first time in the Outsider; I’m thinking it was not the shawl, though) looked more like something a boy would wear.. so she could assume.    I think you have to do a  LITTLE bit of reaching to make this scene work, but not too much. I kind of think that we’re supposed to look at it like an impressionist painting  – don’t get TOO close or you’ll miss the big picture.

    The reason why I said pre-Lacey is because Rumple is really gruff with Belle. I get that he’s in no mood for conversation, but there’s no way he’d talk to her like that after the forest scene. Now maybe it’s the Lacey time period, but before Robin Hood and that trip; that makes more sense to me.

    The more I think about it, the more I like the scene. Belle didn’t get put off by his attitude, she seemed to understand why he was being gruff….and in the end, he did open up to her a bit.

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    December 31, 2013 at 2:21 pm in reply to: Belle & Rumplestiltskin Relationship Thread #234590
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    betsypaige24 wrote: I REALLY hope that he’s not going to lose his memories, but I’m afraid he will. Probably he was sent somewhere pre-curse, which means all his memories of Belle (sob) will have evaporated. This memory loss thing is getting out of hand on the shows, sigh….

    Don’t know why he would lose his memories. No one else does. And they aren’t doing time travel on this show (actual time travel) so he wouldn’t be anywhere pre-original-Curse.

    Well we don’t know where he’s sent,  we just know he’s not with anyone else.

    I never looked at pre-curse as being time travel, I guess it could be…except I’m not saying he’d be sent to the past;  I was more suggesting that he’d perhaps it would be as if his curse never existed, sort of how SB is now going to have not existed (though everyone will have their memories).  It would be different because without his curse, he’d never have met Belle. Of course, without his curse, he’d have died a long time ago, lol.  I’m not married to this at all, I just find it odd that he’s saved, but he disappears. It’s sort of a plot device – there’s no reason Gold shouldn’t just have remained where he was, alive through whatever power saved him, except that they wanted to separate Rumbelle again.

    don’t think that *that’s* when the dagger reached him, I think it was already IN him. if you look at his face (and at Belle’s reaction) right after he plunges the dagger the first time, he definitely feels it and it hurts. I don’t know what did cause the light to come out? what was that extra push for?

    I think it might have grazed him (even a mere graze from knife, never mind a dagger, will hurt), but that extra thrust was to actually have the dagger penetrate him, which is why when he did that thrust, the golden light appeared (because it was then that he was actually killing himself).  You can tell by his face and his trembling hands that Gold is in great pain -and by the noises, though I’m actually not sure if that’s him or Malcolm

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    December 31, 2013 at 2:14 pm in reply to: Adam Answers Twitter Q’s! #234587
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    obisgirl wrote: Okay, maybe that scene took place long before the table scene in Skin Deep when they talked about Baelfire.

    Jane said that it was early on in Belle’s stay. In my theory on the Rumbelle flashback in the 3×11 main section, I posted all of Jane’s tweets about it but it still feels…like they made up the answer when fans started questioning it. And how long is long before? Our best guess says that Belle was with Rumple for maybe 3 months.

    I suspect this was prior  to Lacey (because he’s also gruff with her), though even that makes little sense since in Lacey she still wore the gold dress. However, we could chalk that up to poor continuity – certainly nothing having to do with the writers – and move on.

    It does make sense if you look at it this way. Here, in the FB, Belle isn’t going to push Rumple; it doesn’t matter to her at this point who he’s remembering – she just cares that he is.  in Skin Deep, they are at a completely different point in their relationship. She found Bae’s clothes and she must have remembered their prior conversation; she kind of gently nudged Rumple to talk about who she probabaly at some point guessed was his son.

    This is how I’m choosing to look at it, but it’s a bad job all around that so many fans are confused. The costumers need to do a much better job matching the outfits with the timeframes. Assuming this is prior to Lacey, there’s no way Belle should be in the blue dress…..and the spinning wheel thing is confusing too. Yes, there’s nothing to say that this is the same library Rumple gave her – it’s apparently not – but it’s amazing that ONCE could confuse so many people in such a short scene. Most Rumbellers were so excited for a FTL scen….and it ended up making many of them unhappy. What a shame.

    December 31, 2013 at 8:39 am in reply to: Can baelfire / Neal be blamed for rumple's death? #234547
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    marty mcfly wrote: it’s true, they did make up in the end on the ship, but if Neal had only known why his father was so afraid of that portal, who he lost the last time he used that bean, and how he tried to dig into the ground a few seconds after he went through.

    Nealfire has no way of knowing something if Rumple doesn’t tell him. Rumple kept it all to himself and even when he had the chance to tell Nealfire everything, in 304 “Nasty Habits,” Rumple just says “Peter Pan destroyed my father.” Like Belle said in 204, “you need courage to let me in.” Rumple has to stop being afraid of his past and open up about it. The other characters are not magicians who can read minds. If he doesn’t say anything how are they supposed to know? They aren’t sitting at home with their DVDs of ONCE watching his story like we are. Finally, by making someone else “shoulder the blame” of Rumple’s death, you are diminishing the heroism of his sacrifice. Rumplestiltskin is my very favorite character and I love him an absurd amount. I will always defend him and rationalize his actions. But I am not about to white wash him or make him into a white hatted hero. Rumple, after he became the Dark One, did horrible things. He killed and manipulated. He did these things both in the name of love and in the name of power. And that’s why I love him so much, his actions are that not only of a Dark sorcerer but of a father grieving over past mistakes and his own emotional turmoil from his terrible childhood. But it doesn’t change the fact that he still did those things. And you cannot sweep them under the rug. For a “villain” to be redeemed, you cannot ignore their actions. By trying to say that the prophecy could have been avoided (it couldn’t) or that Baelfire was somehow responsible for Rumple’s death (he wasn’t) you’re taking away from the courage it took Rumple to face his father and defeat him. That was the single bravest thing I think I’ve ever seen Rumple do. He walked out there, no magic, knowing he was going to die, to sacrifice himself for his son, his one true love, and the town. He “died” a hero. Don’t take that away from him by making it the fault of someone else.

    Beautifully put, RG – the whole thing. That was truly the single bravest thing I’ve seen anyone do on this show, on any show………..I’m so proud of him, I can’t even express myself and my love for my baby, already ridiculous, only grew.  Even though the scene is tragic (because we are supposed to believe he died), I still watch it a lot because everything, from Gold writhing on the ground in desperation to save Belle and Bae, to the obvious choice he has to make (it goes beyond just having magic or not; had he used magic, the battle with his father would have continued and Belle/Bae still likely would have died; the ONLY way to end this permanently was to kill Pan and kill himself).

    Gold himself always took responsibility for his actions (something a couple of other people have yet to do, ahem), which is one reason why I adore him. He never blamed the curse and actually he called himself a monster; he felt great remorse for what he’d done and in fact, his guilt was like an albatross around  his neck – it crushed him.

    The prophecy was not what Gold thought it was going to be….He thought it meant his death, but what it really meant as the undoing of his Dark Curse.  I suspected it was going to be a good thing…..and ultimately that it meant the breaking of the curse. It was always going to happen one way or another, but it happened because of everything that led up to that point.   Belle’s presence completely changed things for him; HE changed…because of her love, faith and support in him. Bobby has constantly pointed out how she brings out the best in him, etc…  By the time of the finale,  Gold was able to sacrifice himself because of the journey he  had made. His story is by far the best thing about the show, IMO.

    December 31, 2013 at 2:50 am in reply to: Belle & Rumplestiltskin Relationship Thread #234525
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    angiebelle wrote: Storybrooke vanished as if it never existed, but it did in fact exist. Everything that happened still happened so we aren’t going to see anyone return from the dead. I don’t, however, believe Rumple is dead. I think the fact that he sacrificed himself for those he loves will play a role in it.

    To quote LOST: whatever happened, happened. But what happened to Rumple remains to be seen.

    He’s certainly alive, but where he was sent……… I find it interesting that “whoever” and “whatever” saved him made him disappear. Why not just leave him where he was?   I REALLY hope that he’s not going to lose his memories, but I’m afraid he will.  Probably he was sent somewhere pre-curse, which means all his memories of Belle (sob) will have evaporated.  This memory loss thing is getting out of hand on the shows, sigh….

    December 30, 2013 at 6:21 pm in reply to: Belle & Rumplestiltskin Relationship Thread #234476
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    betsypaige24 wrote: One more thing: I don’t agree that he tried to cut off his hand; he specifically didn’t do that. I’ve said this before, but he has made his decision and come to terms with it. Gold acts with the firmness and decisiveness of one who knows he is doing the right thing. He’s so incredibly fierce, and protective of his Belle and Bae, and he’s ready to pay the price in doing the only thing that can be done. Even if he chose to cut off his hand and reattach it without the cuff, even if he chose magic to battle Pan, that wouldn’t have been the end of things. Gold knew that he and his father would continue to battle……and that Belle and Bae would still likely suffer and still likely die (and there is no return from death). The only way to put an end to it, to ensure that no harm comes to them, is for him to kill Pan – and to die himself.

    The thought may have crossed Rumple’s mind to cut off his hand but he definitely didn’t do it. Rumple still had the cuff on when he faced Pan. And it was a big step for Rumple, he protected the people he loved without using magic.

    Yes, he thought about it……and made the right decision. How agonizing for him – but he knew that this was the only way to end Pan’s reign of terror once and for all.  I only get prouder of him by the day………I still watch these scenes quite a lot, which seems odd given how sad it is, but I find them all so beautiful that I can’t help it. Plus, there’s barely any Rumbelle to get me through the hiatus, so I have to take what I can get.

    I think the writers could have a loophole over Rumple’s “death” despite Dead is Dead. It’s possible that, when Regina destroyed the curse meaning Storybrooke never existed, any deaths that occurred in Storybrooke may then not have happened. Then we could welcome back the likes of Graham, Cora, Felix, Rumple and Pan and FakeArchie

     

    I hope they don’t do that because that would be sort of a cop out and it would diminish the meanings of the deaths.  Gold dying (if he actually dies when he disappears) and being saved by some higher power/magic/whatever is different than say, Graham dying and the show conjuring up some convoluted way for him to return.  I doubt that he really died, however; the moment that he thrust that dagger even further into his father, when it actually stabbed him, is when his curse started to break and when he was saved.

     

    December 30, 2013 at 2:23 pm in reply to: Belle & Rumplestiltskin Relationship Thread #234424
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    betsypaige24 wrote: RumplesGirl wrote: Marty, I’m not really sure why you think Gold was or is trying to prepare for Bae’s happiness…..His sacrifice was about Belle and Bae, not just Bae. His comment about Bae being happy without him was pretty straightforward – Bae is an adult, he will find his own way in life, he will find love and happiness, and that will come without his papa in his life. Gold was expressing faith that Bae will be happy – that’s all

    because this is what Gold DOES he prepares everything in advance. he has a solution to every problem. and he always knows what the problems will be. this is why I SO love his character. “I’m exactly where I want to be” kind of guy. when he told Bae that he used the curse TO ENSURE [Bae] HAS A CHANCE AT HAPPINESS speaks volumes. and we will find out, hopefully, what he did to ensure Baes happiness.
    with Belle it’s different. he didn’t expect her in his future, so he didn’t prepare for it. even when pan tells him to go, leave the island, start a family with Belle, he doesn’t because he knows that he needs to save his family. it’s CRUEL that when his survival instincts do finally kick in, thanks to Belle, and he finds a way to live, and believes he DOES has a future with Belle THAT’S when he dies. it’s just CRUEL!
    for the whole second half of season 2 and the whole 1st half of S3 he was either dying or going to his death. finally in episode 10 we think “good, looks like he won’t die after all” and then we see ep 11

    IMO, all Gold meant was that he used the curse to find out if Bae was happy; that’s what he cared about…..He didn’t intend to use the curse to force himself back into son’s life, just to see that he was ok (not that he wouldn’t want to be a part of his life, of course he would have).  Yes he plans things, but he can’t plan his son’s life, he can’t manipulate everyone and anything to give  Bae what he thinks he wants – that’s the opposite of what Bae would want. IMO, he just believes his son will be happy, like most parents believe their children will be happy

    December 30, 2013 at 2:13 pm in reply to: ONCE UPON A TIME RATING — links and discussions related to ratings. #234423
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    RG, yep! I guess they figure that because they can’t have real triangles with Rumbelle or Snowing, they have to go for it with Emma…… but stupid scenes like Hook talking to Emma about their future while she’s trying to save Henry are so smarmy (then again, so is Hook) and this notion that he’s going to back off of Emma because he thinks Neal will destroy his chances with Emma is so imbecilic. I really think they underestimate Belle’s popularity…..and definitely the underestimated SBs. Waiting until episode 7 to show SB was a huge miscalculation.

    A&E are well aware of the RumBelle fandom and how popular RumBelle are. They know RumBellers would riot if RumBelle didn’t get their happy ending. Also considering the show is supposed to be about hope, not having RumBelle together would go against that. Also, We don’t know what the writers have in store, just because things look bad now doesn’t mean they always will be. I think A&E know they can’t keep RumBelle separated forever, hopefully the current big separation will be the last for a while.

    I’m not even concerned about a happy ending now; I don’t want them to give Rumbelle a happy ending if they’re not going to bother giving them screen time or any happy times during the run of the show. It would feel completely tacked on……too little, too late.  True, we don’t know what they have in store, but their track record with Rumbelle is lousy, so while I’m going to do my level best NOT to get aggravated and angry, I think the best I can do is be accepting of what I expect to get instead of hopeful. I’ve had my hopes dashed one too many times to be excited.

    I don’t think Hook is quite as redeemed as he likes to pretend he is. So he does the right thing, what doe he want, a parade? Every good deed he does, Hook wants recognition and reward for it. He saved Charming but he wanted a kiss from Emma in return. Hook’s not doing things because it’s the right thing to do, he’s doing them because he thinks by doing so, he can get something out of it.

    I don’t think he is either, but the Charmings apparently think he is, sigh. To me, as long as he and Regina refuse to acknowledge the pain they have caused others, their evil deeds, they can never be redeemed. It’s nice that she’s doing right by Henry, but that doesn’t make up for her past. Gold cared, he thought he was a monster, he regretted what he did, felt remorse…..that’s a big deal.

    I too would like for Belle to get an apology from both Regina and Hook. Also I think Belle had more important things on her mind than being mad at Regina in the last two episodes.

    Good point, lol!

     

    December 30, 2013 at 1:09 am in reply to: 312 Promo #234334
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    Pretty cool! I love how the gold bricks (GOLD!!! I can’t help making the connection, lol) appear behind her as she walks….

    Thanks! God, I want Belle to be Dorothy!

    December 30, 2013 at 12:55 am in reply to: Belle & Rumplestiltskin Relationship Thread #234330
    betsypaige24
    Participant

    One of the most common TV tropes: no body no death. The gold light was highly significant. He has broken his DO curse and is now trapped somewhere. He’ll be back.

    Exactly…..that gold light, the moment he thrust that dagger even further into his father and finally reaching himself, indicated he did break the curse….. It also, metaphorically speaking,  spoke to the enormous love he has in his heart; I found that scene to be spectacular and so touching, with that music…….

    Yeah he said they were both going to die, but how would Gold have any idea that  he’d be saved?  Far from being anticlimactic, I find it incredibly exciting…..He believed he was going to die; he sacrificed everything, his life, his happiness, everything, for Belle and Bae….and he was (will be) rewarded. This is a game changer, the breaking of his curse. because of the many different stories that can be spun out from it…….

    Marty, I’m not really sure why you think Gold was or is trying to prepare for Bae’s happiness…..His sacrifice was about Belle and Bae, not just Bae.  His comment about Bae being happy without him was pretty straightforward –  Bae is an adult, he will find his own way in life, he will find love and happiness, and that will come without his papa in his life. Gold was expressing faith that Bae will be happy – that’s all

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