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While I have a wee bit more optimism than Besty (though I am a little nervous) you do bring up a point that I think could be used to discuss ONCE as a whole: external vs internal conflict. All the possible plot bunnies you’re suggesting as internal conflicts vs say an external big bad. They keep throwing external roadblocks at us (fans, not just Rumbelle) instead of letting the stuff that is internal play out and develop. While I think they should always build on their mythology of the ONCEiverse, I would like to see more internal matters being settled. You’ve given me something to chew on Besty!
Thanks!
That’s just a problem with the show in general, though, not just Rumbelle. They’re NOT giving anything time to breathe. Geez, they just got back from NL – now right on top of that, it’s OZ? I feel in a way like they are trying to throw everything and anything to see what will stick……..
With Rumbelle, I think they faced their biggest internal roadblock in the Croc…..and though I feel Belle was really out of character for 95% of that episode, the library scene is iconic to me and that sort of began their new story. Their bond is SO strong, their love and desire to be with each other so deep, that the question becomes : how do you create obstacles? A few external obstacles would be ok IF there were a balance, but at this point Rumbelle is nothing but unremitting tragedy. It’s honestly exhausting shipping them and, unfortunately, I think a lot of the joy has been taken out of loving them. It’s SO frustrating on Tumblr to express yourself and get shouted down by fans who are thrilled by the angst because it shows that Adam and Eddy love them. What these people don’t understand is that most of us are very well aware that tv dramas are about…….well, drama. We’re not asking for strings of episodes showing pure, blissful Rumbelle. What we’re asking for is balance.
We are not even through S3 and Rumbelle has been separated 5 times: S1 – abduction; S2: amnesia and curse; S3: NL/wherever Gold is . Belle had barely been back in S2 finale when she and Gold were separated again (while I adored their shop reunion, to me there could have been more to it). Now they’re barely back in SB (again, scenes were cut from their reunion) before everything turns to hell (though Gold’s sacrifice was glorious and beautiful; I love him now more than I ever did – which is nearly impossible – and I’m overwhelmingly proud of him). It’s one thing after another and I think they are going to lose fans if they keep this up. I think they already have.
As much as I adore Rumbelle, their relationship is depicted more as a series of dramatic events than as a relationship (see my “no domestic” moments ramble in my previous post). If Rumbelle is reunited by the end of S3 (and it had BETTER be worth it, after all this), then as I said before, they HAVE to stop the separations. It becomes a matter of manipulating fans – which they’ve done, IMO, many times. Are we REALLY supposed to believe that these two would not have kissed prior to Gold going over the line in the Outsider? That he wouldn’t have gone back over to the safe side of the line before kissing Belle? I mean, that is practically my favorite episode ever, very near to Skin Deep, but these are serious flaws (plus apparently they deleted a scene where Gold kisses Belle’s hand in the car). At some point, you know what? Fans become apathetic and that’s a terrible thing because it means they don’t care. The only reason I have not quit the show (and I quit LOST because I was angry about how poorly Emilie was used -I adored her character Claire) is because I just can’t bring myself to abandon Rumbelle; that would make me very unhappy. However, I think there ARE people who will just give up because ONCE doesn’t give us any hope. Yeah, we get small tidbits occasionally, but not nearly enough to keep people satisfied.
This might sound strange, but ONCE is treating their characters TOO much like fairy tale characters and not enough like real people. By that, I mean that because they are FT characters, they are liable to meet all sorts of magical folks, creatures, etc… Well that’s dandy IF it’s interwoven with more character-based storylines. So, Gold dealing with the ramifications of his mortality? That’s dramatic, that’s real. There are SO many ways to go with that…and goodness, it would give Bobby and Emilie amazing storylines. The thing that KILLS me about these separations is that their insanely rare chemistry is being wasted…..Most shows would do ANYTHING they could to take advantage of their ridiculous luck, but ONCE actually seems to reject it. These two are brilliant together, a genuinely beautiful partnership; I want to see more of them…TOGETHER, on screen, as Rumbelle, not as alternate versions of themseves. It KILLS me that ONCE doesn’t seem to understand that this is a rare thing…and it won’t last forever.
THIS fact is what gives me some hope for a happy ending, because if they meant to create a character who is emotionally tortured throughout the show and just tell us a tragedy story it would make sense to have him die in the end, but since this is the middle, maybe the game changes now and he will stop being hurt all the time and start living a normal life with an actual chance at happiness.
Marty, I will say this……that while WE are devastated, lol, and so is Belle, they gave him the most beautiful redemption story, a story that was realistically paced and incredibly beautiful. Belle’s presence changed things drastically……..and it all led up to his “death” which though I weep still, is absolutely magnificent. It’s because of his great love that he has for Belle and Bae, his great love overall (he truly IS full of love) that he was able to give himself up – and in so doing saved everyone, including himself. He could never actually truly be happy while being cursed; that was an enormous burden to him. I have to say that I really loved that they didn’t have TLK break the curse because it means a lot more, Gold having struggled mightily against it. He was breaking it just by his transformation; his love for Belle and hers for him was transforming him…and it led to that moment last week.
So, they are obviously planning on the show lasting however many more seasons and they’ve now broken Gold’s curse. That’s a good thing because I don’t think there was much more that could be done with it; it SHOULD be something of a game changer. That is, they can spin off stories from this. I’m not saying get Rumbelle married now (though honestly getting them married before the end of the series would be far less cliched then waiting until the end), but yes – can we STOP with this man being fate’s pin cushion ? I do think that WILL stop because I think Gold took fate, twisted it into a little knot and crushed it like the man snail from S1, lol. That moment when he planted his hand on Pan Daddy’s shoulder and growled that he wasn’t going to let him touch Belle OR Bae? That moment when he slammed that dagger into Pan Daddy’s back, fiercely proclaiming that in order for Pan to die, they both have to……..and that he was READY finally? That was Gold taking control of his own life……
[adrotate group="5"]Merry Christmas to all who celebrate and to those who don’t, enjoy the season as well. All stay warm and safe!
What frustrates me about Rumbelle is that that whatever happiness they have lasts for minutes, literally…at MOST a day or so. We don’t get smaller moments with them, like with Snowing; I MISS their banter, their quirky humor. We don’t get to see any of that because they are never together and when they are, all hell is generally breaking loose. We don’t get any domestic scenes – much as I love Gold’s shop, man, that does not replace a home setting for certain things. Surely he doesn’t live there?
I desperately want Rumbelle to have a happy ending, but I don’t want to be a HEA stuck onto the end of the show when they don’t have any happiness at all in the middle of their journey. If the idea is to make them suffer inordinately because that’s how the writers see them, then just give them an ending befitting that – and that would mean NO happy ending. That would feel more authentic, I think.
I fail to see any purpose to these constant separations and I just wish that these two could face obstacles together. To be fair, though I will say that the Charmings have a daughter and grandson, so while they personally are together, they face their share of angst via those two. Plust to be fair, Snowing was separated in S1 until the curse broke and then at the beginning of S2 when Snow and Emma went to FTL. They keep Charmings together while avoiding their HEA because of issues with Emma/Henry. Rumbelle doesn’t have children, so any separation or personal angst has to come from these two alone.
Assuming yet another 11 episode separation for Rumbelle, I can’t possibly conceive how of how ONCE will separate them again in S4. I HOPE that the writers remember a HUGE thing about Gold being de-cursed: he’s now mortal, like everyone else. Since Bae is now in his life and there’s nothing more they can do to poor Rumbelle, how about dealing with the very real ramifications of this.
1) His physical condition. How much stress have the years taken on him? Is his heart in good working order?
2) His physical age – he’s now about 20 or so years older than Belle. That is a big age difference. There is a good possibility, though of course not guaranteed, that he’ll die well before Belle. That has to be devastating for both to think about. What about a family? He’s not going to want to be an aging father; he’s going to want to be able to play with his kids and do “fatherly” things.
3) Just the fact that he now knows he’s going to die. Now I’m guessing Gold is probably ok with that because I’m not sure he really wanted to live forever……though living with Belle forever would be good. That was never going to be possible, however, without lots of complicated machinations.
For me, there is no way that these two are going to want to wait to start their lives. Let’s get them engaged an married within a season and a half, if the show lasts that long. Angst? There can be plenty of realistic angst: Belle has a difficult pregnancy, Belle gets sick, the baby gets sick… there are so many possibilities,
Just FYI, Jane confirmed to me on Twitter that this was a real Belle, that she did find out about Bae prior to Skin Deep.
Jane Espenson Betsypaige24 You’re not confused. That’s the timeline. She does learn some things about Bae earlier than it seemed in SD.
Is this pre or post Lacey? If it’s post, then what happened to her library? Why is his wheel there? Of course, maybe this isn’t the same library. If it is, though, might this take place in the Lacey time period pre- Robin Hood incident? No matter what, it’s extremely poor continuity given that Belle didn’t have her blue dress until Skin Deep. Someone also mentioned the shawl….which Belle didn’t see until the Outsider. Maybe she didn’t notice it in the FB? I’m not sure.
I’m going back and forth, lol. It’s confusing because the Lacey/SD timelines mix
1) SD: Belle meets Rumple, goes to his castle, chips cup< 2) Lacey : Robin Hood incident/library< 3) SD: curtain scene 4) SD : Bravery talk< I guess the point of this FB was to show the parallels between his “My ending shall not be a happy one” and his last line of the episode, his talk about being happy with Bae and his comment to Bae about how Bae can be happy without him, and then the implication, of course, that he won’t have a HEA with Belle. Lastly, the “he’s not dead, he’s lost”……where Rumple is defensive about it. Is somehow Belle going to think that about him? It’s very strange that she’s bringing him flowers since I doubt he ever expressed an interest in them……but then again, it’s just like her to try and bring color and life back into HIS life So overall, this can fit in the Rumbelle timeline, but it’s an awkward fit and quite frankly, it was carelessly put together. As I talk my way through this, I do find it sweet that he opened up to her about Bae………I don’t like his gruffness, but she did (inadvertently, of course) interrupt a private moment. I don't think Adam/Eddy like or care about Rumbelle, so perhaps they just didn’t care whether this FB made a ton of sense. Again, it appears to exist only to show parallels…………..but when most of the fanbase (at least those on-line) are confused, then you are NOT doing your job as writers. **** I'll add this about the content of the scene: IHere, Belle isn’t going to push Rumple; in Skin Deep, they are at a completely different point in their relationship. She found Bae’s clothes then and she must have remembered their prior conversation; she kind of gently nudged Rumple to talk about who she probably had at some point guessed was his son. So, we have Belle putting out feelers in the Going Home FB. She doesn’t push - not only is this early in their relationship, but he’s obviously in a sensitive place. Then later on SD, she finds boys clothing and gently presses him about it, after which he admits that not only was there a son, but he lost him, the same language he used in the FB.
Per Jane, episode 15 is being written by KALINDA VASQUEZ and apparently not co-written with Andrew Chambliss, so that makes me much less enthusiastic about this episode since I believe her episodes have not been very good and AC is great with Rumbelle. I’m not sure how well she knows Rumbelle or Belle. I think she co-wrote Dark Hollow with AC, so that’s in her favor, but how much of that was her? I really wish this were an AC episode. What’s amazing is that Jane helped create Rumbelle and she hasn’t written for them since Skin Deep.
betsypaige24 wrote: He really is the perfect WOZ/Professor Marvel…….the notion of him liking favors would definitely come into play, lol. Can you imagine Pongo ripping the curtain off only for Dorothy Belle to see Gold behind it, lol? What I love about the Wizard is that he, in a sense, gave the gang symbols of what they had already shown: Tin Man proved he had a heart without one beating inside of him; the Scarecrow proved he had brains without an actual brain and the Cowardly Lion proved he had courage without it being acknowledged. The Wizard gave them a heart, a degree and a medal, but even without those things, our friends had proven themselves. That just sounds like Gold so much, the puppet master…..in a good way. Adam and Eddy said Rumbelle’s relationship would be explored no matter what state it’s in….lol, well I’ll believe that when I see it, but possibly they are referring to this. It would also match Adam’s comment about them being in the same world for an extended period
I’ve seen this theory and others like it around Tumblr. I find it very intriguing. We don’t know where Rumple ended up so it could very well be Oz. Except for a few people here and there, I’m mostly seeing that everyone wants her to be unrelated to a major character (I support this) I do like Mal’s sister idea and SG and HE put forth.
I’ll go back and read those theories…Maleficent is actually one of my favorite, all-time Disney characters (when I went to WDW a few years ago, I created a shirt with her on the front, lol), but I’m not a fan of ONCE’s version at all, so unless she’s been radically altered, I admit that I don’t have a need to see her again.
I keep thinking “Follow the Yellow Brick Road”………which is made of GOLD Bricks, lol. No, I’m sure it means absolutely nothing, but I just thought I’d throw that out there because, lol.
I’m not married to Gold being WOZ or Dorothy, but I really need to see a good, hopeful Rumbelle storyline after all that they’ve been through. Whatever their story, I just hope we don’t have to wait until the end of the half to see them reunited because while their reunions have gorgeous moments, they are always squeezed into episodes and aborted in some way.
I don’t care if she’s Regina’s sister, but seriously, if she’s Rumple’s daughter, if they decide to show us he and Cora actually having this kind of relationship (I’ve seen people speculating that) again after all that went down, then that will be just…..the end.. TMD was bad enough – and yet I can see Adam and Eddy going that route just because. I would much rather have Cora having affairs, which honestly if she’s trying to acquire power, seems more in character for her. She already was heartless with her heart…..without her heart…….It’s already bad enough with Rumbelle separated again for the thousandth time; please no more R/C.
As to Dorothy, I’m not going to get my hopes up because I don’t think there’s any way that Adam/Eddy would give Emilie/Belle a big storyline, but it does makes sense for Belle to be Dorothy …..especially if Rumple is the new Wizard of Oz (I assume there have been different ones). Speculation on other boards runs to:
1) Belle has been seen carrying baskets three times now. In Skin Deep, The Cricket Game, and Going Home.
2) And the thing about dogs in The Cricket Game.
3) Belle does resemble Dorothy
He really is the perfect WOZ/Professor Marvel…….the notion of him liking favors would definitely come into play, lol. Can you imagine Pongo ripping the curtain off only for Dorothy Belle to see Gold behind it, lol?
What I love about the Wizard is that he, in a sense, gave the gang symbols of what they had already shown: Tin Man proved he had a heart without one beating inside of him; the Scarecrow proved he had brains without an actual brain and the Cowardly Lion proved he had courage without it being acknowledged. The Wizard gave them a heart, a degree and a medal, but even without those things, our friends had proven themselves. That just sounds like Gold so much, the puppet master…..in a good way.
Adam and Eddy said Rumbelle’s relationship would be explored no matter what state it’s in….lol, well I’ll believe that when I see it, but possibly they are referring to this. It would also match Adam’s comment about them being in the same world for an extended period
I don’t think it’s necessary to play armchair psychiatrist. I’m not reading into things; I’m entitled to my opinion as you are to yours……. If I wanted, I could say that you were reading into their comments, since there is absolutely nothing in what they said that indicates they are together.
I’m not hung up on Eddy’s comments and I very well believe there will be a proposal. That doesn’t mean much to me when I believe they’re going to be separated yet again.
Adam did not say they would be together in the same world, he said they would be in the same world…….I’ll stick with the analogy I posted above about my brothers.
I’m not ignoring what Adam and Eddy are saying at all.
I don’t think this conversation is going anywhere since you think I’m imagining everything…………
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. If I’m still watching by the time the 2nd half starts, I guess I’ll find out what they mean
betsypaige24 wrote: Wow, more separation…..unbelievable, lol. I just can’t ……………..I’m so upset that I don’t even know why I should watch the reunion. Adam and Eddy don’t want to write for Rumbelle; as beautiful as their scenes are, all they are are scenes. We don’t get the development of a relationship – how can when when not even 3 seasons in they’re separated yet again?
It’s not separation. In fact Eddy says it’s not. And Eddy is clearly saying with that last bit: “they are going to be in the same world for an extended period of time.” Nowhere does it say separation again. You’re reading into it based on your own fears.
Eddy didn’t say that, he said something about the state of their relationship, whatever that is….. their relationship will be explored. That’s not the same thing as saying they’re together….. Their relationship was explored in some of the last episodes in NL/SB, but they weren’t together. Take it with Adam’s comments and it’s certainly a separation. Bobby hasn’t filmed at all with Emilie – he’s not filmed with much of the main cast at all, actually, not that I can tell.
We disagree, clearly, on the meaning of Adam’s words. They can be in the same world and not be together…….If they were together, he’d have said that. I don’t expect others to agree with me, but this is how ONCE rolls……..
Wow, more separation…..unbelievable, lol. I just can’t ……………..I’m so upset that I don’t even know why I should watch the reunion. Adam and Eddy don’t want to write for Rumbelle; as beautiful as their scenes are, all they are are scenes. We don’t get the development of a relationship – how can when when not even 3 seasons in they’re separated yet again?
That’s what’s considered reassurance? ‘Some reassurance. Great, the same world. I’m in the same country as my brothers, but I’m not together – I’m in NY, they’re in Florida. An extended period? That means Gold is in another world at the beginning of the season, most likely.
I don’t want 24/7 fluff, but I want balance. These two never have any real happiness – not for more than 5 minutes at a time. They can’t break them up in the traditional manner, so Adam/Eddy take another cliched route…….more separation.
