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Back in the episode where they showed Pinocchio leaving baby Emma in the orphanage I have wondered if maybe Pan had something to do with “Pied Pipering” Pinocchio and the other boys in the orphanage away to become became Lost Boys (kind of a twist on the traditional Pinocchio tale). This would have allowed enough time for Emma to grow up unprotected by anyone from the EF, allowed her and Bae to meet and get pregnant.
Do you know, this is an interesting theory 🙂 I’m wondering if the boys weren’t just unhappy though. Pan lured the boys away with music and I don’t believe Pinnochio heard any music – in fact he was reluctant to leave Emma.
I’m not sure that Pan actually “recruited” (for want of a better word) August though – if anyone did it was John and Michael I think. Pan is the puppeteer pulling all the strings from NL.
But I do believe that it was John and Michael that told August that Neal was Bae. That was a question that bugged me for a long time, and I think we have our answer. I think that John and Michael were keeping close tabs on both Neal and Emma and somehow maneuvered them into meeting. Adam has hinted before that we don’t know the whole story – and it’s been strongly implied that Pan allowed Bae to leave NL.
Adam has said that Neal didn’t send Emma to jail – but I can’t get my head around anything other than he was a willing accomplice to this plan. August knew about the watches, the train station, even the meeting place where Neal was supposed to reunite with Emma. August/John/Michael could not have known all these things through simple observation, even if they were watching Neal and Emma closely. At least, that makes logical sense to me.
I’m trying to keep an open mind, but it’s hard, especially with the dialogue we got between Neal and August afterwards.
- August says “we went over this” with regards to Emma being in jail, to me implying VERY strongly that it was a plan that BOTH of them were aware of
- Neal, even after saying that “it should be me in there” then says that “if I knows she’s okay, I could move on”. So to me that says that nothing even occurs to him to try and fix it – he certainly doesn’t try to hand himself over or anything
And then there’s the fact that when Emma says “you left me,,, and let me go to prison because Pinnochio told you to?” he. does. not. deny. it. He may not have made the call, but he allowed her to go to prison.
I don’t know, I just can’t wait to see the prison thing addressed once and for all. I’m fed up of some from the other side one minute saying “OMG Adam said that Neal didn’t play a part in her going to jail” and then the next minute saying the “OMG jail was necessary for her to change” etc.
UGH JAIL WAS 1 MILLION KINDS OF UNNECESSARY AND IT WAS THE REASON SHE GAVE UP HER SON AND I REALLY DESPISE NEAL AND AUGUST FOR IT SOMETIMES I REALLY DO
HE HURT MY BABY
Sorry…. getting myself all worked up lol.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Compare how Rumple has “fought” to get back to Bae for all of those years to Neal saying he will never stop fighting for Emma. I am even more confused by his saying that to her now that he recognizes that his own father came back for him.
To be honest i think he was still reeling over the whole Tamara thing when he said that.
I mean, i’m not his biggest fan but he has, in fairness to him, all along regretted what he did to Emma. I think he underestimates the pain he caused her, but we saw him apologise to her in 2×21 and when he was in the EF he didn’t know if she would ever forgive him, get a second chance, etc. Which is one of the reasons why that line didn’t sit so well with me.
Anyway, only an episode later, he was saying that it was okay if the only thing to come from him and Emma being together was Henry. That’s not “fighting” to me, that’s not True Love to me. This is one of the main reasons why i think that Neal may back-off from Emma completely this week during his and Hook’s discussion.
@jenven – all questions welcome, don’t be afraid to ask! 🙂@MysteryKat – loved all those thoughts on jenven’s question!!! 🙂 I just want to point out that I read that some SF shippers were saying that Henry coming from Emma (TL personified) in a TL relationship would magnify Henry’s power so that he should be even more powerful than Emma, magically. In fairness that concept DOES make sense going by genetics. But he needed Pan’s magic to remove his heart, and when Pan tried to take it without Henry’s consent, he was only stopped by Regina’s spell.
He has the heart of the truest believer, but i see that more as a facet of his personality rather than anything overtly genetic. I mean, his parents are the biggest non-believers in magic that we’ve ever seen in the show, i think. Lol.
I also really believe, his main story has nothing to do Emma and everything to do with his relationship with his father. Like, that’s the whole reason for the curse. Rumpel wanted the curse enacted so he could come to our world and his his son. It had nothing to do with teaching the residents of the EF a lesson about happy endings. It had everything to do with finding his son.
^^^^^
Now, I have a question i’d like to put to you guys – do you think Pan orchestrated Emma going to jail? I think John and Michael were suspiciously quick in trying to adopt Henry. I personally don’t believe that it would negate anything Neal did – he made his choices, and they were the wrong ones. He abandoned her, didn’t try to go back to fix what he did even though he regretted it, conspired with August to at the very least arrest her IMO. What do you guys think???
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
@MysteryKat – I LOVE THIS it’s probably just a happy coincidence (or maybe not?) but yeah it makes me happy 🙂
Just found this on tumblr – the CS theme (without talking/kissing – but with birds which is kinda nice lol), compared to the Spuffy theme, but I just want to play the CS theme over and over because it’s SO AMAZINGLY BEAUTIFUL AND KILL ME NOW PLEASE SO MANY fEELINGs
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
http://fyesemmaandhook.tumblr.com/post/64657207140/x
I’m nearly sure she said it somewhere else too, but can’t think of it 🙂 Anyway that tweet says it all lol!
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
So many wonderful little nods, even in an episode that was focused more on parent/child! LOVE getting yet another “As you wish” with an added bonus of “my lady” – can’t wait for it to be “my love!” Seriously, are they even trying anymore?
Lol – NOPE. Of course that’s just from our perspective – but i’m pretty darn sure that ours is the correct one 😉
I thought it was a good point about how it was going to work without a pegasus sail because that is all Hook knows DOES work. His ship didn’t need to be criticized in the process. It’s all he has.
I thought he was MORE than justified being snarky in his reply about it to be honest. Especially because Neal wasn’t exactly forthcoming about his plan to get them off the island.
Also of note – we don’t see Neal’s reaction to any of that even though he’s RIGHT THERE. We see HOOK’s reactions to a lot of intimate moments with various people and Emma, but Neal is there and we see nothing
What a great point!!! 🙂 I completely forgot about it – they literally didn’t show his reaction to Regain’s comment AT ALL. Like seriously, how is it not obvious to everyone at this stage what relationship they’re developing?
Speaking of which – Emma finally had reason to smile with Neal being around (hear me out on this). She observed the moments she needed to that actually made her happy.
Oh i totally agree with what you said there. Like, even i don’t like Neal particularly but that Neal/Rumple moment touched ME, and i was so happy for him and Rumple, so OF COURSE it’s going to touch Emma when she can actually identify with his experience of abandonment. But to be honest, her emotional reaction to that was very short-lived – straight after that scene she turned to her parents and talked about how now that Rumple was back, Snowing could leave the island. ZERO lingering. I mean, when CS were on the ship/in Bae’s cave they LINGERED over their emotional reactions, even though it takes up VALUABLE screen time. It’s pretty obvious to me what relationship they’re developing. *shrugs*
And anyway, Neal’s relationship with Rumple has NO BEARING on Swanfire’s relationship. Like, it’s literally not really relevant at all to it. IMO.
I seriously don’t think that they built up this big redemption story for Hook, and showed just HOW DEVOTED and loyal he is when he loves (similar to Snowing who can’t imagine EVER loving someone else), and having him overcome that, like Regina and everyone else this season, only to put Emma back with the guy who broke her heart (well-meaning or not, he never came back to explain and if someone did that to me, and still chose his fiancee until she tried to kill him, and THEN wanted me back there’s no way anybody I know would be ok with that and it’s what EMMA feels, not how badly we feel for Neal and his “sacrifice” that apparently also included moving on with someone else even when Emma is standing right in front of him pouring her heart out about how painful it is to see him with her).
^^^^^^ Like i was saying before, the road to TL isn’t supposed to be smooth, but it isn’t supposed to be THAT rocky. Like, Charming had NO romantic feelings for Katherine. None. Because he was in love with Snow, and Snow was out there in the world. And yet, Neal had romantic feelings for Tamara, even though Emma was out there in the world, and we’re supposed to think it’s TL? Yeah.. no.
Buttercup could not love again even though she thought her TL was DEAD.
The fundamental rules of True Love that make up the concept are in no way exemplified by Swanfire, i’m sorry.
And i think that’s something all of us here are in agreement with.
That’s why if SF got together i would literally stop watching the show – because to me it would signify bad writing. The truth is in the numbers – CSers are a far bigger fandom than SFers. A bigger proportion of people are interpreting the show in the same way. Maybe it’s just because i’m a chemist, but i fully believe in statistics lol. But even more than statistics, the clues are all there in the narrative. That’s why i honestly can’t believe that SF are believed to be endgame by some.
I’d love it if Emma’s word on whatever was enough, but then there will always be doubts of some kind and every “proof” has a loophole so far so…until we know more, hopefully her choice will be enough to convince the characters and the fans and we can be rid of this stupid “triangle” perpetuated by the fans even though we’ve seen saying this from the beginning.
Unfortunately it won’t be. Even though CSers have been proved right at every turn with the development of CS, SFers still find a way to twist it to suit them.
Neal is giving out his plan of escape in miniscule sections.
Yes. Emma was frustrated with it in Dark Hollow – “are you going to tell me how that coconut works?” and now Killian is frustrated.
That said, all I keep seeing is “yay Neal for not taking Hook’s bait” from that conversation and I just want to scream. Neal insulted the ONE thing that has been consistent in Hook’s life. The ship is his HOME, is the one possession he has that really means anything to him, houses a lot of bad memories etc etc. It is EXTREMELY personal to him, and Neal just insulted it.
Lol that’s hilarious. So what, they’re saying that Neal is the “better man”? Even though he started the spat?
I’m increasingly amazed at how much people are trying to hate Killian, even though he has been NOTHING BUT a good man this season. His arc is to be a HERO. It’s nothing more than blind (and prejudicial actually) hatred because, deep down, they know he’s a serious threat to their ship. Like, CSers get mad at Neal, but only because he treats Emma badly “at times”.
But when people descend into “omg he loves Emma but she feels nothing for him” “omg he’s always wanting to be the center of attention” and “omg Emma is only hugging Hook because he’s Neal” – like all of those arguments make no sense.
Killian didn’t want to take ANY credit for saving David’s life.
Why would Emma hug Neal in Hook’s body? She has feelings for BOTH of them – that would be weird even in Fairytale terms.
JMo has SAID that Emma has feelings for Killian. SAID IT. But i get why SFers want to deny this – it’s because as soon as you take Emma having feelings for Killian into the equation, SF does not work.
Honestly MysteryKat, keep to the positive, bookmark this thread and keep to your tumblr, because i just laugh at all the arguments i hear these days!
Emma and Killian will have professed their love for each other by the end of the season, of that i’m 99.99% sure 😉
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
HO HO HO – I’m CS Santa, and I have a lovely gift for you today!! (well actually I didn’t make it but I delivered it that has to count for something?)
Soooooooooooo pretty, we have so many talented shipmates!
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
I’m listening to the episode now. They talk about how Neal needs to be punched by Charming and then talk about other positive CS stuff. These girls are so funny and some of them, I already follow on tumblr so that’s awesome too.
Ooooh I’m all excited now. Might save them for the hiatus though – it’s going to be hard going and i’ll need some CS goodness in my life about then!!!! 🙂
Thanks for posting that tweet!!! MY NEXT QUESTION IS – WHEN ARE WE GETTING THE THIRD?
And we know Wesley and Buttercup end up together.
Not only that but they were TL and they had the kiss that surpassed them all etc.
laksdjfl;kasdjflkasdjfljadofuiwerjadf
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
k”>OMG you guys!! We have a podcast dedicated to Captain Swan!!!
OMG that’ll be fun!!! Did you see the Star Wars parallel at the end of my post before yours?? It’s not too spoilery, you’ll LOVE it 🙂
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
I was not expecting to hear that again, so it really reinforces that there is STILL something there, at least on Hook’s end.
Don’t worry, Emma will soon be catching up! 😉 We know she has feelings for him, strong ones. SHE just doesn’t know. Hehe.
In the movie of The Princess Bride (which Disney have acquired the rights to NOT SAYING JUST SAYING) Westley said “As you wish” 3 times. The second time he said it she realised he was saying “I love you” – which, combined with the fact that we got Emma admitting she knows that Killian loves her in the same episode he said “As you wish” a second time… well I don’t think that’s a coincidence lol. And the third time was when she realised she loved him back. We KNOW that they are put there deliberately. So Killian is going to say it a third time. And Emma will realise that SHE LOVES HIM BACK
I’M FINE
I really do believe they are a TL pairing, so it will be interesting to see if that belief holds up to be true as the season continues.
I DO TOO, AND DON’T WORRY IT WILL
I’m not seeing any TL signs when it comes to these two. The show has established a few rules for what makes TL and I just haven’t seen any of these rules followed by Neal and Emma. I try to keep an open mind, so maybe I’m wrong about that. Honestly though, I doubt it.
*nods head vigorously in agreement* I mean, I get that each couple is going to have their own unique parts to their “love story” but there are still baseline rules to TL, fundamental rules that make up the concept, and those rules cannot change, no matter who the parties in the relationship are, and no matter how “real world” it is. If A+E DO go the Swanfire route I will literally not watch anything they write ever again. Can I just remind everyone of this because it REALLY stuck in my brain:
Snow to David:
If you died I would not be able to move on!
Emma to Neal:
I was hoping you were dead, because it would be easier to put you behind me than to face all the pain we went through.
Milah to Rumple:
You could have fought, Rumple! You could have died!
One of these things is not like the other two…..
This may be a crazy thought, but when the Darling Brothers were attempting to adopt Henry, I wondered in Pan was behind more than just that. I wondered if maybe he was behind EVERYTHING leading up to Henry being born (AKA: Swanfire meeting each other and having Henry.) Maybe instead of Emma and Neal meeting by chance, it was just Peter Pan contriving the whole thing. Just a thought.
HECK yes 100% agreed. Pan was obviously having Neal and Emma WATCHED, (possibly orchestrated the jail term?) and was ready with John and Michael when Henry was born. I mean, COME ON no way did SF meet by accident. No way. I don’t believe in coincidences.
@obisgirl – here’s something you’ll love from lady-silverblood!!!! 🙂Luke: “As long as this bucket of bolts [the Falcon] holds together!”
Han: “She’ll hold together.” *explosion* “Okay baby, hold together.”
Neal: “Pan’s shadow’s in here. It’ll get us home. As long as your ship holds together.”
Killian: “Well, as long as your plan holds together, she will.”
PSST
DIDN’T A+E CALL KILLIAN HAN SOLO AND EMMA PRINCESS LEIA
LALALALALALALA WHICH ONE ENDED UP WITH LEIA AGAIN? OH YEAH
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
MatthewPaul wrote: I just suggested that the mythical being is Medusa. She can “stop Regina cold in her tracks”, and she’s from Greek mythology.
The “stop cold in tracks” is probably a clue. So I’m going to accept your headcanon and go with it.
Me too! 🙂
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
