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Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Okay @Hookian đ just come back sometimes!!! đ
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Another thing we will probably see before the series ends is Emma tempted to turn evil or seek revenge.
She already has. In season one when Henry was under the sleeping curse – “If he dies, you die”. Emma is a LOT like Hook, and also Regina, and it’s partly why she empathises with both of them so much. But yeah we could see a deeper struggle before the series is done. It would be interesting to say the least đ
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
hookian wrote: Guys I just want to say that I probably wonât be here much longer because lots of personal life stuff have gotten in the way. You guys should go check out the Fanforum CS thread and the TWOP forum, theyâre much more welcoming and you guys wonât have to hide in just your little section anymore. See you guys later.
Sorry about that Hookian and what happened in the chat earlier. I do get your frustration, really. Just reading the chat can sometimes be frustrating. I hope you still come back cause I like reading your opinions a lot. I hope everything will go well with you. *hugs*
I’m not even going to ask what happened *sigh* but yeah I agree @Hookian I enjoy your opinions even if I don’t go outside this thread often anymore and don’t get to see them.
@emmajones where have you been??? đ You haven’t been talking with us much.Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Guys I just want to say that I probably wonât be here much longer because lots of personal life stuff have gotten in the way. You guys should go check out the Fanforum CS thread and the TWOP forum, theyâre much more welcoming and you guys wonât have to hide in just your little section anymore. See you guys later.
Aw that’s a shame đ pop back in every so often! đ Hope everything goes ok with your personal stuff.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Iâd like to know when he stopped going by Baelfire and took the name Neal but again, itâs never been addressed. Stuff we did learn about his history, him knowing how to draw coming from his mother, it wasnât revealed from Neal himself but through Hook because he knew that about Milah.
Yeah, exactly. Classic plot device-y. Because they still haven’t addressed the whole “you killed my mother by ripping out her heart” thing. I mean, that should be PRETTY HUGE. Just like Tamara. And yeah totally noticed he’s in the background all the time. He doesn’t even get a reaction shot when Regina calls him “this… person”. We got a reaction shot to Killian when Charming said “[work]with him????”
To be honest from this point forward I’m going to be talking as though it’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that Neal is going to die, just so you all know and don’t get confused lol. I’m 99.9% sure it’s him anyway and talking about it will desensitise me for when it actually happens (I hope). It’s probably going to be a tear-jerker.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
However, in all honesty, after the way the character was treated in 3Ă10 and 3Ă11, I donât expect to see much of Neal in the second half.
WOW. Now that is…. scary.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Got it – will post it in full. It’s been updated with season 3A stuff as well. From nenny89:
Neal is the most plot device-y of plot device characters that I have ever seen.
Other people have said this too, but I wanted to put my two cents in. I also know thatâs kind of a bold statement to make, and Iâm honestly not trying to hate on him itâs just an observation, so let me explain.
I have noticed, through doing a fandom project, that Neal/Baelfireâs character has next to no importance in, or influence on, the story outside of how his presence affects another character. I will also say right off the bat that, yes, like anyone in a story he has moments and dialogue that furthers him as a âcharacterâ because heâs not, you know, a robot. But that does not make him any less of a plot device.
1) Â If looked at chronologically, the reason for Baelfireâs existence in the narrative is to give Rumple the push he needs to break his leg and go home a coward; and to give Rumple a driving force through the rest of the story. Now if Bae had existed before Rumple went to war, and then Rumple got scared and ran; (latching on to his infant son because he was the only one that didnât/couldnât hate him for it) then you could argue that heâs his own character. However thatâs not the case and instead he literally exists as a character to be important to Rumple. Donât think thatâs true or important? Well look at almost every other âmainâ character. They have their own lives to start out and become intertwined with others/each other. Snow and Charming certainly donât have existence solely with each other; same with Regina and Rumple. Of course there are some who started out like that, see Belle, but have since grown past it. We learn about their lives and relationships because itâs important to them, but we only learn about Baelfire and then Neal when itâs important to Rumple and Emma respectively
2) His most active moments as a character are never ultimately about him. Ex: When he use the bean and fell through the portal alone, itâs about Rumple losing him, not about him being lost. In fact we donât even see how this affects him until over a full season later, and thatâs only because the writers wanted to introduce the Darlings and explain how Bae knew Hook. It wasnât about him as a character.
3) Â He enters and leaves that story constantly based on whether the writers need him to further the plot or not. Think about it, what character scene has Nealfire had, that was just about Nealfire?
As stated above, the scene where he falls down the portal was about Rumple.
His existence with the Darlings was into introduce them, and get him to Hook so that Hook could have angst about him
He disappears from the narrative after he leaves Hook and we only know about, and have any emotional feelings toward, his time in Neverland because itâs significant to Emma, not because heâs reacting or remembering.
The highlight reel of ST was to give Emma a reason for her emotional walls, Neal literally appears and disappears in her story, to further her emotional plot-line. Also, the scene between August and Neal was to set up further angst for August, aka that he took the money. It was never about Neal, you can tell that from the framing as the scene starts and ends with a shot of August.
He comes back in âManhattanâ to cause conflict between Emma and Henry, to cause emotional strife for Rumple, and so they can introduce Tamara and then set her up as a character and a villain.
He comes to Storybrooke, yet we never have a scene of just him. Wandering around looking at things, reacting to things. You never get the story from his perspective. Heâs always with someone, his every action is to further someone elseâs story. Hell even the scene where he was bonding with Henry on the beach wasnât about him. It was about Regina learning about him, and about how both she and Rumple are feeling on the outs with people they love.
Then, when the story doesnât need him to set anything else up; it sends him down a portal and out of the way. He fell down that portal to give Emma emotional pain, to give Hook an blunt reminder that he wanted to change once, to give Rumple a reason to not kill Henry, and to set up Henryâs emotional pain that will become a problem with Pan. Falling down that portal did nothing for his character, but it did a lot for everyone else.
The time he spent in EF, was not about him, it was about being the catalyst that ended the Mulan/Aurora/Phillip triangle and so that they could introduce Robin Hood as Reginaâs love interest. The reason we learn about how Neal feels aboutâŚwell anything is because heâs asked and because his answers have direct reference to the stories of other characters. Not because itâs about him.
The entirety of 3×04 was about Rumple, not Neal. The episode starts and ends with Rumple, in the flashback section Bae only exists at the beginning and the end to yell at him. Neal gains and loses Henry so that Henry can be reminded of his loss and then slip further under Panâs control. And then we also learn that Nealâs crowning achievement (leaving Neverland) was never an achievement and that Neal was let go to meet Emma so they could have Henry.
3×05 Neal is in a literal box until the writers need him to create angst again, this time between Emma and Hook. Which was explicitly stated by Pan himself.
3×06 Neal was reduced down from a character; to the macguffin the heroâs needed to find in order to complete their quest. They needed to find him, not because he should be saved, but because he knew a way off the island. His rescue wasnât about him itâs wasnât about his âsufferingâ. In fact we never see how Neal reacts to his imprisonment AT ALL. 1) It was a way to separate Regina from the group so she could head to Rumple, save him from the shadow, and get Pandoraâs Box. 2) âSavingâ him gave the writers a way to clear the air between their characters, further the emotional story lines of everyone BUT Neal, and to cause conflict. 3) Specifically for Emma it was a way for the character to confront a painful part of her past. Her confession was not about Neal, it was about herself and to be honest he barely reacts to it other than puppy dog eyes, looking down briefly and giving her a hug.
To that point his hug with Emma not about him again, because we are shown Emmaâs reaction to it, Killianâs reaction to it, Charmingâs reaction to it, and Snows; not his. The camera doesnât focus for any significant time on his face, it doesnât tell us how HE feels.
Nealâs âI will always fightâ for you was not about him, itâs about Emma reacting to it, itâs about Killian overhearing it and feeling angst about it. In fact the whole thing, was filmed from Emma and then Killianâs perspective. We never SEE NEAL say the words from his perspective, which divorces him from their emotional impact as a character. That and the fact that the writers waited until Neal was outside the âcave of no liesâ before he said it, which would have added more emotional weight and sincerity, leans to the idea that the writers were having him say it at all just to create drama.
The above point is further validated by the fact that in 3×07, Â the reverse never happens. When Emma and Killian were having a moment, we never see anything from Nealâs perspective. Instead he comes back into the scene solely to be a âtension breakerâ.
3×08 was a mixed bag of him being a plot device for Rumple mainly (by causing dissension and emotionally black mailing good behavior out of him), but he did get a small amount of character scenes through Wendy.
3×09 Even though he doesnât have much to do in the episode the sceneâs with Rumple and Henry are a step in the right direction and do give him some growth. A whole lot of growth in the scene were Panry was concerned actually.
3×10 Â He started off good with the family scenes, and then completely spiraled into literally nothing more than plot device again. 1) The fact that even though they are back in Storybrooke Tamara, a huge part of his character in Season 2, is never addressed. 2) The fact that when the writers had Killian stepped back, they then immediately had Neal jump on Emma for a date; was a sign that the whole thing was never about Neal. He was doing what he was doing to cause drama for Killian, whoâd just stepped back and more emotional pain for Emma, whoâd already expressed her desire not to go down that road. Donât believe me? Well consider the fact that, outside of a sad look on his face that compels Snow to send Charming after Emma (Giving Emma and Charming a father/daughter bonding moment they wouldnât have had otherwise), we never get a scene of Neal reacting to her missing presence. Because itâs not about him. Itâs about getting Emma and Charming together and giving Charming a reason to have his âitâs about the momentsâ speech. 3) Neal counts so little in this episode, and beyond, that he wasnât even at the border when Panry was release. That situation was about his son! Pan is his grandfather! Everyone in the family BUT Neal was there! (Yes, Regina wasnât either, but she was with Fakery âprotectingâ him. She had a reason not to be there, Neal didnât) It could have been a great character moment for Neal, but sadly the writers didnât care enough about him to give it to him.
3×11 Well itâs never been more apparent then it was in this episode that the writers have no idea what to do with Neal if heâs not causing trouble. Honestly, what did he do, this episode? He was justâŚthere, and he never really reacted to the things happening around him. Honestly his lack of emotion really took me out of the episode, and I donât blame MRJ for that. The man was given nothing to work with! Now, I know, Iâm not the biggest Neal fan, but my mother is and even she mentioned how off putting it was that he was under-reacting to everything. Ex. When his father died his reaction was a equivalent to: â*sniff* well that sucksâ while Belle was on her knees sobbing beside him. Which was especially jarring given that he and Rumple been moving toward forgiveness and living as a family again; and that Rumple had just essentially died for him. Another example was when Emma and Henry left. Again, his response to the situation was almost non existent, he basically said: âyea, Iâll see you around I guessâ. When heâd just gone to his personal hell, Neverland, to âsaveâ them and was losing them again so quickly. So what was I looking for? Well, Iâm not saying that I wanted Neal to be running down the street ripping his shirt and crying, but something more than what was given, was called for! Something that showed me, the audience, that the writers actually cared about this character and his development; which in turn would make me care!
Still donât thinks so? Ok then, tell me some key facts, or experiences Nealâs had, that have nothing to do with another characters?
Some Examples:
What was his job in New York?
Where was he for a decade after he left Emma?
Where was he the sum odd decade after he left Neverland and before he met Emma?
What are somethings that happened to Neal in Neverland that were character building, and were strictly about him?
Given that when he came back to our would he would have been physically 14/15, was he ever in the foster care system?
Does he have any acquaintance outside of plot related ones; aka Tamara, Emma and Rumple?
What does he feel towards Tamara now? Is he angry? Sad? Upset? Confused?
How did his near death experience effect him?
What is his favorite drink?
What is his favorite color?
Why do we only learn things about him that will best affect the characters around him?
Agree with me, or donât, this is just how I see things. Iâm also not saying itâs impossible for him to grow out of it like Belle mostly has, and at the moment there seems be be hope in a possible quest for Rumple in 3B. However, in all honesty, after the way the character was treated in 3×10 and 3×11, I donât expect to see much of Neal in the second half. Not because I donât like him, but because it seems that the writers just donât know what to do with him or care enough about him to find something. Like I said, there is potential with finding Rumple but then again their was potential with the fallout from Tamaraâs betrayal too.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
