[charming]

@the wiz wrote:

@Possum Snoodle
You wrote:

I’m hunting Alice dialogue. I seem to recall Alice worried about being stuck in age, size, location, and such. Hmm.

There are several other features of Wonderland that were stuck: the Mad Tea Party, the Red Queen’s obsessions and the White Rabbit’s chronic lateness – for instance. It’s possible that Lewis Carroll was commenting on what happens when our use of logic precludes self reflection (going into a looking glass). If we cannot consider the “3 fingers pointing back at ourselves” when we point fingers at others, our own story grounds to a halt. Getting unstuck calls for seeing what we’re doing to ourselves when we do things to others and how we create our own limitations by being unimaginative.

@charming
You wrote:

Booth to Lewis Carroll is a harder case to make, his real name was Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (01/27/1832 to 01/14/1898) he was mathmatician, logician and Anglican deacon. If one can find a connection that fits I can agree because 2 of the 3 does fit and the third I do not see too clearly. Thoughts???

I’m thinking the connection of Booth to Lewis Carroll is too logical and literal, just like Emma was being with Jefferson discussing what is “the real world”. Instead of what is, let’s play with what-if questions:
1. What if August Booth is merely a self-referential character for the writers of OUAT, like the White Knight was for Lewis Carroll.
2. What if Jefferson’s dialogue is an homage to Lewis Carroll’s approach to the intersection of logic and imagination?
3. What if that room with the big window and sea of hats is symbolic of how Charles Dodgson abandoned the Anglican Church’s dictates about Hell and Eternal Damnation?
4. What if Jefferson’s getting stuck in Wonderland in FTL and that abandoned church sanctuary somewhere — are the result of being unimaginative?
5. What if Jefferson created his living hell by “hating Wonderland” and “hating the curse” that kept him apart from his daughter in SB?
6. What if he will discover he has magic himself when we can abandon either/or logic and embrace both/and paradoxes?
7. What if his beheading in Wonderland shows him his logical split between his mind & body, head & heart, or thinking & feeling?
8. What if the writers of OUAT realize that Lewis Carroll could have written the show because he was both logical and imaginative, not exclusively one or the other? 😀

Good points taken. We think of what is as I have always sugessted in other matter but in this case the what if does seem to fall in to place. Never thought of that…….touche. I’ll go along with this theory of the white knight until i get hard confirmation that he is not. Sure, I’m game.

[charming]

@hjbau wrote:

@Surayya wrote:

I also love the you have walls/ ‘almost tramp’ scene- love MM expression when Emma ask’s “Im like what?” lol

That is a good one. I really like that one too. I love the scene where Emma asks Mary to have faith in her and i love the scene where Emma lays on her bed and talks about what it might be like to find her parents and then tells her that Henry thinks Mary is her mother.

@mia wrote:

Do you guys think she would ever get over it that her mother is the same age as she? Assuming she finally believes, of course. It’s rather harsh. We know they already do have a sort of mother-daughter and vice-versa, best-friend relationship. They do get along, but would Emma be satisfied with that? Yes, she’d have a family and a sort of mother, but she’d never actually have “real” mom. On the other hand it would still be much more than she ever had before, so …

I actually think Emma is going to have an issue when she really believes that they are her parents. Though i think eventually she will get over it. I think that Mary already seems very like her mother. Emma is a lot of times the awkward kid talking to her mother about different issues and i think that they sometimes seem like friends with Emma telling Mary to do the right thing. I actually think that it seems like a very real adult relationship between a mother and daughter. Though i could totally see Emma believing and running away because she can’t handle it.

Yes and I can see MM and David both convincing her to stay to help. Hopefully by then NN and David will realize they are Snow and Charming and now help their daughter Emma help them fight evil and a family together. They gave her her best shot nand returned, so they need to convince Emma her best shot now is to stay with them and Henry.

[charming]

Emma’s met Leroy/Grumpy in jail, Sleepy at the hospital with Leroy, and Mr. Clark/Sneezy when arresting Hansel and Gretel. Four more???? then??? I think something will happen after she meets and talks to all 7…..maybe they will remember and help Emma help Charming and Snow? Like good dwarves who tried to have an intervention with Angry Snow,
“Look what you are doing to Happy!!” Grumpy to Angry Snow.

Let’s face it and see if you agree withme when I say Leroy is more interesting than Grumpy. I think the Storybrooke Dwarves will be more interesting then the FTL Dwarves. FTL Dwarves seem blase and they are just side characters while the SB Dwarves seem to play a more important supporting roles.

[charming]

@romantic_sheep wrote:

So I can’t claim any credit for this, it was pointed out by a friend, but Emma’s tattoo looks kinda like the flowers from the Coat of Arms of the Charming/Snow/King George Kingdom. They’re not identical (5 vs 6 petals, no sepals on the tattoo), but I thought it was worth sharing.
There’s also a pic of the tattoo from the Once Upon A Time fansite (http://ouatv1.blogspot.com)

Interesting things about the coat of arms in the picture; those 7 flowers. Seven in an important number; Regina mentions 7 is the number of addresses she’ had in the past, 7 is the number of dwarves who helped Snow (let’s exclude Stealthy). There are 7 flowers above that chevron above what appears the be a griffin or dragon, maybe a lion. Seven is a key number. Emma has met I believe only 3 of the 7 dwarves. Just saying Regina mentioned 7 and pointing out the 7’s I noticed. It is imporrtant would anyone agree????

[charming]

@the wiz wrote:

You’re welcome PS! I suspect the White Knight could not advance with Alice because of the metaphor of a chess board in that story. Most pieces in chess have limited moves, unlike Queens and Kings. I have yet to see August experience limited movement – so that seems to me another disparity between the White Knight and August.

The “water” issues August has revealed so far deal with how magical water can be, how good it tastes to him and how he asks for a glass at Granny’s over anything else on the menu.

Yes I agree the knight on a chess board has one of the most limiting moves or any piece. He is free to come and go from SB. He did cross the toll bridge with Emma on the back of the motorcycle. Water seems not to be the issue for him. I’ll go with royal writer. August Wayne. that makes sense. Booth to Lewis Carroll is a harder case to make, his real name was Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (01/27/1832 to 01/14/1898) he was mathmatician, logician and Anglican deacon. If one can find a connection that fits I can agree because 2 of the 3 does fit and the third I do not see too clearly. Thoughts???

[charming]

@Phee wrote:

@charming wrote:

Remember now there are 4 queens in the Alice stories (Wonderland and thru the Looking Glass). Queens’ of Hearts, White and Red. One of them ended up being Alice herself. Alice at the end of Looking Glass was crowned queen after reaching the eight rank and checkmating the red king.

Number of queens in the original story doesn’t mean much because on this show they blend characters. I mean, since when has the Genie also been the Mirror, and Rumple is Belle’s Beast. In the Tim Burton version of Alice, QoH and White Queen were feuding sisters, if memory serves, so there’s every chance they could go down a similar path, or any new path, with those characters on Once.

There are also many different versions of Alice in Wonderland too. Some blending Through the Looking Glass into it, some not; others make Alice an adult revisiting Wonderland; while on version she asleep goes there becomes and adult wakes up and she’s a kid again. I beg to differ….we do not know what part in time of the Wonderland story this is nor which version they intend to do. They are not going to do a story arc and just use three characters only. Every story needs side characters, supporting characters and minor characters. Yes, in this case it does matter. They have not explained nor said or suggested anything to any effect. These theories are all possible and all can fit but another question is how does Wonderland fit or relate to FTL. That is the most important question to ask in this case. Other than shared characters the 2 worlds to me seem to not have a connection yet. Three characters have been confirmed to have been in Wonderland who is from FTL. Other than that no clear connection. Wonderland, I’m calling it is a prison world.

[charming]

@hjbau wrote:

I think it seems like the Queen of Hearts is Regina’s mother. The actor is different though. I am not sure what that means.

Truth be said this show is not these producers first rodeo; it was probably coincidental planning that there was a filler actor. They probably wanted Barbara Hershey to play Cora, whether or not they could get her on time or they were going to use that actress to play the Queen of Hearts. It case they do decide against not making Cora the QoH they can or if they do they do. Hence the covering of her face as an additional back up and you not hearing her voice. I believe with the exception of the lets say first three episodes there should not be continuity issues by the end of the season.

[charming]

@mia wrote:

@Surayya wrote:

I also love the you have walls/ ‘almost tramp’ scene- love MM expression when Emma ask’s “Im like what?” lol

That’s one of my absolute favourite scenes of the show! My favourite being Snow trying to kill that blue bird, lol. I re-watch it every time I need something to cheer me up. I love the way MM looks at Emma while picking the flowers out of the trash and latter says “Just because I don’t get emotional over men–”. <3

We really need a character appreciation forum, lol.

Back to Emma:

Do you guys think she would ever get over it that her mother is the same age as she? Assuming she finally believes, of course. It’s rather harsh. We know they already do have a sort of mother-daughter and vice-versa, best-friend relationship. They do get along, but would Emma be satisfied with that? Yes, she’d have a family and a sort of mother, but she’d never actually have “real” mom. On the other hand it would still be much more than she ever had before, so …

Right now it is a yes. I believe it is just this very fact that makes her slow to stop playing make believe Op Cobra and Real Op Cobra. August and Jefferson have both opened her eyes a bit more, especially by the end of both Hat Trick and then Stableboy; when Jefferson just disappears into the hat she made and then finding Kath after testing her “heart”. It is the age. Emma’s never known a mom nor how to be mom. Starting on her 28th birthday she gets both and then some. I never been close to being in a situation like that but I can image starting with not much and getting a whole lot at once can be too much to handle.

[charming]

@Pandora’s Imp wrote:

I think it would be interesting to see Red’s cloak be from Rumpel. The could have an episode where Red is 13 and Granny goes to Rumpel.

I would love to see that.

I do not think he is at all a wizard type of magic user.

If the cloak was received by Rumple then Granny would not have said wizard. Since when does anyone refer to him in any positive way. His trades costs and usually have people coming back for more like an addict. since when does his stuff ever do any good without hurting another as opposed to actually helping. It would have been stressed that she got that cloak but it also cost her something else for it.

I’ll have to disagree. A wizard, to me at least is simply a man who has magical powers. So I think the term would fit.

Plus, I can’t think of another male character in Fairy tales who would be a wizard. Maybe Merlin but he isn’t from a fairytale.

[charming]

From what was said between Regina and the Queeen of Hearts it seemed as if they were rivals, not mother and daughter. Cora dominated Regina and it would seemed likely she’d kill Henry before capturing him. She had no qualms about killing daniel whom Regina loved probably just as much as her father.

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