[dontstopbelievin]

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[dontstopbelievin]

I haven’t watched last night’s episode yet, but I am at such a… dichotomy of minds about this whole thing. About everything, about the whole season since about 314.

I keep going back and forth, back and forth, between, “this is garbage,” and, “This show was brilliant, so brilliant, from 101 even through 312 or 313, it seems so strange now, they MUST have a plan. There must be a point.”

And it’s that latter feeling, which I keep going back to, that has me yelling Phee’s shenanigans, or, it’s not over. There is more to this story.

Today it dawned on me, as I rolled everyone’s reactions to 317 around in my brain, that if this really is all as it appears – if 315-317 is as a result of ABC mandating CS – then I actually have a huge amount of empathy for A&E. How much must it suck to spend ten years planning something, to lay it out carefully, to play it out for 2.5 years, then to be told if you want to keep your job you have to destroy it all? I just can’t muster anger. Because after last night, it seems to me there are two options: this is all a grand plan (albeit poorly executed,) or A&E are victims much like we are. They can say “we ship the show” all we like, but when the SF family is the central axis around which the show rotates, I am pretty sure that means they inherently ship the SF family dynamic, and being required to destroy it for an ancellary character and alternate story just sucks. Their ship will have sunk, too. Weird that the option which permits my ship being repaired actually makes me angrier, you know, that this is all a plan and they are doing a hack job of it – while the option that precludes my ship sailing elicits sympathy. Funny stuff.

Anyways, I have this poem metaphor, that keeps echoing through my head – this is how the SF poem reads to me –

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that, the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I
I do not like green eggs and ham
I do not like them, Sam I am

Pizza
Donkey
Watermelon
Blarrgle

(Credit to Robert Frost, Dr. Seuss and RG – with honorable mention to textbookone – for words stolen and not credited as mine.)

Seriously. This is the poem of SF. It was beautiful, and then ended up ridiculous. Ridiculous! *WHAT HAPPENED?!* Do you accidentally end a poem that way? Of course you don’t! Surely, these writers can see that this is what they have done to their poetic story of the savior of the curse, falling for the reason of the curse, beginning on the road to forgiveness… turning to the reason meeting his demise and her turning to the pirate who destroyed his family? Surely, surely they do not intend for this to be the story the show is telling. I just… they can’t. They can’t intend that.

So I go back, again, to there being a plan here. Season 1 was brilliant, we can all agree on that. Every bit was meticulously planned; some day I am going to plot my way through the SF story as it began *in 101.* It was so well laid out. So then, I get stuck on this – two things were introduced in S1 that we are seeing play out on our screens: Oz & the character of Baelfire. That thread, linked pages back, about balefire – it is too much to be a coincidence. I have read, and read, the Wheel of Time info, trying to grasp the general concepts as best I can without reading the books. It’s… too exact. It is not coincidental that we have a dark one, a Baelfire, a dreamcatcher of importance (pattern weave,) etc. This tells me they had always planned for the concept of balefire, this burning back of someone’s thread, of changing the past without turning back time, to be important.

When Once was begun, A&E knew they would some day be going to Oz. I venture to guess, they had an idea of how Oz would play out. They also, clearly, intended for the concept of balefire to be important given that they named a character after it. Did they plan to put the two in the same arc? Not sure, but if they did – and for the sake of this argument let’s say they did – it doesn’t seem insane that they would intend for Baelfire to be important in their story about balefire and Oz. Which incidentally would have been planned out long before S2/S3 hiatus, so perhaps then this was the plan all along, along with return, and the character to die for real – demanded by story – has yet to come? I think there are a few breadcrumbs that indicate this is the case, but the entire fanbase has glommed onto the Neal thing as the real deal, and as well they should. I still posture A&E would have a strong case for trolling their own fanbase!

(Oh ha ha, I made a Hansel & Gretel funny… remind me to ramble on about True North one of these days… <3)

Roomies and I were talking yesterday, and one of them pointed out how odd it is to kill the namesake character as they embark on this story about balefire. She has an excellent point. Why kill Baelfire right before you introduce balefire, if it was an important enough concept to name a character after it? One thing that is notable to me, about this balefire/Baelfire business, is that when they wrote Neal's POS death - they made it happen *in the past.* They retroactively killed him; although he died on Emma's lap, he had really died a year prior. In essence, they balefired Baelfire. That is... not accidental.

(An aside - I do wonder, though, those of you have have read WoT - I understand and can grasp the process via which someone can be resurrected, if the person who killed them is balefired to before the time of their death. Can, likewise, someone be un...created? In particular, I am wondering, if someone is balefired to a time before the existance of their child, will that child still exist? I'm a little confused by the fact that the character is retroactively killed, and some things are changed, but time still continues moving forward, and how that affects things. Of course it's likely a moot point, since Once will not likely follow all of the rules - they will probably apply the general concept of balefire but call it something else and use it in a totally different way - but I am just curious.)

There is also the interesting point that in 312, the dreamcatcher in the apartment had a broken portion. The weave was broken, then; understanding the WoT balefire/dreamcatcher bit makes the oddness of the broken dreamcatcher make sense in the sense that it is a tie-in. I don't know what of it, yet, but it is there. There is also the dreamcatcher imagery in Emma's nursery; the mobile, which we have seen a million time, is seen for the first time from above in Charming's nightmare. As the room madly spins, we see the mobile from above, and realize it is a dreamcatcher pattern - and I realized as I rewatched it *the whole entire nursery* is done in dreamcatcher patterns. Incidentally we notice this in a nightmare - the dreamcatcher is flypaper for nightmares - but we have seen in 312 that the dreamcatcher has broken threads. So we have now tied the dreamcatcher - an unarguably SF symbol - into the very fiber of Emma's nursery. Yet, it is torn, so in comes her greatest nightmare. There's something there, in fact, I think there's a lot there, but I can't get myself to a place where I can unpack it - and perhaps it's because we need to yet see how 3B plays out to make it make sense. There's just a lot to that, and it has been almost wholly ignored.

So... yeah. These are the things that run through my mind. After 317, after reading everyone's reaction last night, I started to resign myself to the fact that it is all just a pile of dog dirt, and really, the show has taken that dreaded hard left turn. But then back around to this I came. And it took enchantedfan's post - just that one little glimmer of light - that I am not the only one who thinks things are not exactly as they seem. So I ramble, here, again, in case there is someone out there reading who is of this same mind, but starting to question themselves... because I am choosing to believe that there is a possibility (however slim) that the geniuses who are responsible for things like Manhattan (<3) have not completely gone loopy, and they may have a method to the madness. I may not LIKE the method, but perhaps, there is hope that there is an end that they feel justifies the means. Even if I hate the means, perhaps, maybe, just a tiny maybe, I will like the end.

There is this quote, from Arthur Conan Doyle, that has been instrumental to me in some really, really bizarre circumstances - Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. I have seen that improable truth be wacky and weird, yet still be the truth, so perhaps that’s why I’m willing to give this situation the benefit of the doubt. I’d like to paraphrase that a bit, to explain where I am, and alter it to say – Once you eliminate the improbable, whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, may be the truth. I would like to posture that it’s improbable A&E just forgot their own story overnight. It is not impossible – perhaps they did, and of course there is the significant possibility ABC has trashed the whole thing – but I am coming around to the idea that it is far more likely they are just taking a way roundabout way to tell their own story.

Anyways. That sums up my mindset right now, and from whence the insanity comes. I understand, without hesitation, all of my #nohope friends. I hope it makes a bit more sense where this #dontstopbelievin friend comes from. 🙂

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

I dunno, but I find myself reading this thread and over and over I say to myself, “Phee’s my girl!” (And I mean that in a totally non-creepy way, because I think it sounds soooo wrong typed like that. Rather – I feel like we are of the same mind about all of this!!)

I need to finish this long post I am trying to write, I keep distracting myself. I am at this point SO curious as to what I am actually going to find when I watch tomorrow’s episode, because some things I take one way and some another, but ultimately, I am left at, the jury’s still out. I am just not sure this is over, or as cut and dried as it appears. I am just not sure they are going to be able to adequately wrap and explain this story as it needs to be, either. Sigh.

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

Y’know, when you put it that way Phee? Perhaps my cracktheory ending of having Hook sink the JR with the WWW onboard (y’know, water and all) is not so insane. Not sure how it would bring Nealfire back, but I have been cracktheory on that for a while so…

(Yes, I know it’s insane. But Phee made it sound slightly less insane.)

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

1) 1100 pages 🙂 I’ve only been here for the past 250 but I claim it as home. 🙂

2) RG, I vote you ARG right here for eternity. The thing I have learned is viewing the show through a certain goggle is to have a particular understanding… so we gotta stick together.

3) YES, I totally forgot to talk about the fact that we saw a) a body left in the woods and b) a closed coffin. Bestie roomie has brought up on MULTIPLE occasions the weird lingering zoom in on his face in the woods and how she feels it’s important. This show has a history of protection spells and the like, my headcanon is that when Rumple closed his eyes, he did… something. He felt his beloved Bae was safer from the WWW “dead” and has a plan (TLK?) to fix things once they defeat her.

To follow up on my earlier insane-sounding “my life is weird” posts, a few minutes ago I was chilling in my living room, windows open, when all of a sudden DSB started playing from outside somewhere. I don’t even know where it was coming from lol… perhaps the apartments across the way. Because… why not?

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

You know, of late I have been pacifying myself by pondering that perhaps his death is less about his return than about his death. So the death needed to be quick, and they could not do it logically, so they did it OOC – because it did not really matter, he just needed to be dead in order to return him. But I suppose that is the optimist in me speaking, just an alternate way to look at it. It would explain the idiocy, while still allowing it to be story-driven. And I actually DO incline towards it being story driven and not BTS. It’s on my schedule to examine that a bit more later tonight. (Assuming episode discussion does not take over.)

I expect to see him in 319/320, even if just in flashback (which would suck!) 320 would make sense to me – if we get August, from Kansas, tied to the Wizard, from Kansas, plus also August/Neal backstory. We had that door filming pic, and I know I’ve read a couple of theories, but I still lean more towards new footage. I mean they’re paying the guy, might as well use him for any loose ends tied up as well.

I realized yesterday that we were inside a month to 321 & 322. I can hold out for one more month before I close the storybook on this situation.

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

RG, yesterday I had a thought that the “gap” between 315 & 322 – the waiting game, to see how the season ends up – has become less a question of “will Neal return” and more a, “Will RG find hope again?” I cheer every time I see you find a spark of hope, so I hope to see it again soon. I definitely understand it’s easier NOT to hope right now though!! TRUST me I do, kind of wish I could feel the same and move on. But, like it or not, the trolls have me until 322. After that, we will see. My love of the show predates this as a ship, and I go back and forth between, “I love the show most of all,” and, “The show I loved most of all died when it killed one of its most central characters and irrevocably altered its message.”

Anyways. I worked an event yesterday, in a rural parking lot where we had absolutely no traffic, and so I spent several hours essentially staring at a billboard for a company called “Ariel.” Needless to say, thoughts wandered, and I started pondering that episode, and the triangle. I have had some thoughts, and they are probably crack-y, but I did have a thought with regards to how one might see a death/resurrection of Neal as necessary to resolve the triangle (and theoretically the shipping wars.) Someone, some many pages back, illustrated the resolution of the triangle as being Emma standing in front of the two guys, pointing at one of them, and exclaiming, “YOU!” It made me giggle. Certainly, that would be the simple resolution, but since we’re not watching The Bachelor, it is not likely as cut-and-dried. But, still, whichever guy she chooses, there is the possibility of ambiguity – she chooses Guy A, but she doesn’t NOT choose Guy B. It leaves the wiggle room in fans’ minds that if it were not for Guy A, perhaps Guy B would have a chance.

If – and it’s a huge if, I accept – what they have done is temporarily remove Neal from the canvas; there is no triangle any more. As it stands at this moment, she cannot NOT choose Hook because she is choosing Neal, because Neal is not there. So if at this point she shoots Hook down (and in my TV viewing experience, I think there is a significant chance that because tonight’s previews went so far towards implying one thing, the episode may well deliver the exact opposite,) it is because she is NOT choosing Hook – not merely because she is choosing someone else. I can see where the writers MIGHT have felt the need to have her clearly not choose him, ever, under any circumstances – for her to effectively say, “I know I can’t choose Neal, but I am STILL not choosing you, not because I hate you (or whatever,) but because you are not right for me.” This is not an either/or situation, it’s a Guy B is not right, regardless of whether Guy A was right or not.

To me, it goes back to how I viewed her conversation in Dark Hollow, where, “This is not a contest,” read to me as – there *isn’t* a competition. From Emma’s POV, that was not a Hook vs. Neal situation, because the two were not on equal footing – TO EMMA, there was no contest. It wasn’t, “Should I pick Neal or Hook,” but rather, “How do I deal with my feelings for Neal?” and then also, there is this pirate trying to confess his undying love. She just kind of… doesn’t deal with it, sidesteps him, over and over. I was astonished to find in my rewatch that MOST often, Emma’s reaction to Hook is one of… annoyance. I just don’t feel like we’re going CS, no matter how much the previews may imply that’s where we’re headed. I have my fingers and toes crossed Emma puts an end to this foolishness, for once and for all. (I don’t really hold out hope that it will actually happen, but I am crossing my digits that it does.)

I am wandering, but point being, I can see justification from the direction of the writers to feel the need to end the triangle with each duo on its own merits. I can see where they MIGHT feel it is a good idea to completely remove one side of the triangle, then resolve the other side, no interference. Then when they reinstate the initial side, the only issues that need to be dealt with are the ones in that relationship, without interlopers. I can see where they might get the (IMO, misguided, unfortunately) idea that if they deal with each relationship as not Emma choosing one guy or the other, but rather, assessing each guy individually – no, this doesn’t work; yes, this does work – it might forestall the fanbase wars. After all, how can one fanbase blame the other guy for their ship not sailing… if the other guy is dead? Granted we all know fanbases don’t work that way, but I can see TPTB thinking it is a grand idea.

Anyways. As someone who is now watching the show week-to-week, trying to decide if the show has a) completely changed course or b) is being written as ‘the end justifies the means,’ and the means is junky but the end will be awesome, I am just pondering these things. I expect tonight to be a really key episode in the direction of not just the shipping wars but the show for me. Are they going to go ahead and retcon Emma, make her take up with a pirate for whom she has shown few affections a mere two days after her TL died? Or are they going to write her in character, and finally give her the gumption to say, “Knock it off dude, I’m just not that into you?” I think the former is more likely – and it will likely be the final nail in the coffin for me, NOT because I am all, “I’m not gonna watch if there is CS!” but because it reinforces the hard left the show has been taking since 314. (I actually don’t mind CS, or I should say, I didn’t mind it until I rewatched and realized that if CS were an actual relationship, it would be an abusive one. And it terrifies me that they are going to portray that as okay. If a guy says he loves you, you should ignore the part where he throws you into the wall, because he’s hot and he’s a good kisser ‘n’ stuff. *rollingeyes* But I digress.)

Stupid hope.

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

Hmm, Phee, that was pretty much my finding. The only thing I found was this article, but it seems to have a source of the TVLine article and just infer from there. Wonder if the fanbase just took it as spoiler canon? It is interesting to me that so little was really said about the spoiler of doom, literally one quote, and yet we heard so many things extrapolated from it. Not sure the post I was going to write is actually relevant, so I may try to attack it from another angle tonight.

Regarding the above gifs, those make me want to curl into a ball and cry. That song – the phrase “be careful what you wish for” in general, really – has a crap ton of meaning in my life. (Yeah, the “some you don’t want” is apparently where I live… I have learned to be VERY careful what I wish for.) Incidentally I thought of it with OUATiW’s midseason finale – “Be very careful what you wish for, Will.” Anyways, the interesting thing about that song *for me* is that it’s “Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it all, you just might get it all, and then some you don’t want. Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it all, you just might get it all…” There’s the wish, the getting, and what you don’t want. But then there’s the wish again, with just the getting. Perhaps it only makes sense to me, because it’s my life – or maybe the hope in my life – when I am mired in the “some that you don’t want” that AFTER that you do indeed get it all. (Oh, and irony? I just now learned that OUAT quote is from the episode titled “Home,” same as the song title. Hah. Sounds about right. My life is so weird. No wonder I get this show. :/)

Anyways, so I had a nice vacation (which is good, I was kind of dreading it, family drama and all), did a ton of thread back-reading so I am now in the mid-300s… funny to see the things that were spot-on and so far off during hiatus. I had a funny experience, which I shared in chat, but thought I would stick here in the thread too. I left on Sunday afternoon and was displeased, since I did not want to go in the first place and I REALLY did not want to wait until Thursday to watch 316 (I just wanted to rip off the darn bandaid.) On the way to the airport, not that long of a drive, we passed exits for both “Neil Avenue” and “Cassidy Ave,” which I thought was funny. Then at the airport they had a billboard for Cassady-something consulting group, saw that while I was at Starbucks getting my hot cocoa lol.

I was in the car, heading to the airport to come home, and was thinking about getting home that night, if we would have time to watch Once before roomies had to go to bed, thoughts started drifting to SF etc etc. Of course “Don’t Stop Believing” came on the radio, I laughed, it was well-timed as I considered the future for SF and of course it is my SN here. I drove into the parking garage as it finished and the reception fizzled as I got lost. After a few minutes, I found the proper return location and as I pulled in the reception came back… to Dido’s “White Flag.” I started cracking up – Don’t Stop Believing, I will go down with this ship, got it. I am sure the car return dude thought I was insane as I was grinning about nothing.

After that, I walked into the airport and got stuck behind a slow-moving family with a little girl, she was maybe about two. I was still giggling about the songs in the car, and pondering SF randomness, when they happened to call the little girl by name – Charlie (Charley?) Seriously almost laughed out loud at the family. The FUNNIEST part was that I separated from this family, checked in, went through security, and sat at my gate for probably an hour listening to music and various flight announcements, as we had a delay.
Something jogged my memory about the earlier sequence of events – perhaps a flight announcement about the flight at the next gate, headed to Phoenix? – and so I pulled out my phone to type a note so I could remember to share later. I KID YOU NOT, right as I typed the child’s name, that family walked up and right past me! (This was not a small airport and they could have been on ANY flight, so I did not expect to see them again!) I am certain I looked insane as I burst out laughing for “no” reason at the gate.

I am of the opinion that God amuses himself by laughing at me, and that incident was no exception. At least I’ve learned to have a sense of humor about it. 😉

Anyways, speaking of listening to music, in traveling I heard about 47 thousand songs with my iPod on shuffle. (I take great comfort in Florence & the Machine’s “Shake It Out” – “It’s always darkest before the dawn…“) I came across a song, not sure if it has ever been discussed with respect to SF, but if not, um, it is necessary. Whenever Neal returns, someone needs to make a video, but it needs the happy ending first. I was cracking up listening to this on the plane, it went from “Hmm, I wonder if this fits SF” in the first verse to “Magic? Yeah, this is them” in the second verse to “!$@#$@$^#&$$ PHOENIX!!!” in the bridge. Because, seriously!!! Bolding is mine.

Love Is All (Marc Anthony)

When you hold me like this
So many memories fill my eyes
The first time we kissed
The times we nearly said goodbye
But still here we are
Tested and tried and still true
And stronger than we ever knew

Love is all
The laughter and the tears that fall
The mundane and the magical
Love is all
All is love
The careless word, the healing touch
The getting and the giving of
All is love

There’s a me you’ve always known
The me that’s a stranger still
The you that feels like home
And the you that never will
But still here we lie
Tender and trusting and true
With everything that we’ve been through

Love is all
The laughter and the tears that fall
The mundane and the magical
Love is all
All is love
The careless word, the healing touch
The getting and the giving of
All is love

All the glory
All the pain
All the passion
That turns to ashes
Only to rise again

Love is all
The laughter and the tears that fall
The mundane and the miracle
Love is all
All is love
The careless word, the healing touch
The getting and the giving of
All is love

More rambles later. I have Things To Say before tonight’s episode but first I have a 4 year old’s birthday party to attend.

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

Thanks, RG! Where did the gone = never gonna see again, no flashbacks, totally gone come from? Are there Adam tweets with regard to the article I should be searching for?

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[dontstopbelievin]

Hey, can somebody do me a favor? I am still catching up on the thread from vacation (missed y’all like crazy!) but I had some thoughts I wanted to write out regarding the death, hope, story-vs-network related, etc. Can someone link me the ORIGINAL spoiler article regarding the Season 3 death spoiler? Is it that TVLine one, or was there another? I keep seeing things mentioned as “A&E said” that I don’t recall reading anywhere, so I want to make sure I have the right sources before I put things together.

Also, the post-315 confirmations – the TVLine A&E interview, Adam’s Twitter, MRJ’s Twitter – were there others I am forgetting?

Thanks 🙂

Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...

[Author]

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